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Post by boksmutant on Oct 5, 2011 20:54:53 GMT -6
Well, I'll be heading down to San Diego(a few minutes drive)to join in on the protest we're having this friday. I'd love to see which state brings out the most people, but we'll see. What do you guys think of this?
Awake!
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Post by talek on Oct 5, 2011 23:55:03 GMT -6
Great to see Americans standing up to the system, and I clap my hands for you Boksmutanis. Normally I do not like to give my view on Politics on this forum, but I will support my fellow Cultist, this comes from with in, and I will leave it at that.
Hail Bokmutanis!
Takek
Esoteric Herald of the Old Gods
Cult of Cthulhu!
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Post by lokidreaming on Oct 6, 2011 0:24:58 GMT -6
The protesters are idiotic morons!!!
They are targeting the easiest target for a scapegoat errenously.
It is obvious it is not (all) Wall Streets fault.
The protesters should fucking wake up and stop acting like chicken little!!
LD
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 6, 2011 12:09:45 GMT -6
I'm surprised to not see Dude Tyson posting on this thread.
I've been hearing more and more about this movement, but don't know all the details. If it's anti-establishment, then I'm for it. FYI, I also believe the Obama administration to be anti-establishment. I'm tired of Republicans, Tea Baggers, Wall Street, banks, corporations, and billionaires influencing so much of our lives.
If you're going to a protest, bring your Cthulhu sign!
By His loathsome tentacles,
Venger As'Nas Satanis
Ipsissimus
Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by sin on Oct 6, 2011 12:45:18 GMT -6
Has Dude Tyson been type-cast?
I've been following it in the media, I really don't see how this protest is going to do anything but exercise an American right to assemble and bitch.
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Post by sugarubies on Oct 6, 2011 14:51:25 GMT -6
Since I teach in-company business classes, I know a bit about this protest and how it came together. I left home for many of the reasons the people are protesting. I'm from NYC, so I would be there if I hadn't left. I'm sure you understand most of the media is not your friend. Here's some good stuff. edition.cnn.com/2011/10/05/opinion/rushkoff-occupy-wall-street/index.html?hpt=hp_c1A familiar quote these past few years - If you aren't furious, you're not paying attention. |
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Post by sugarubies on Oct 6, 2011 15:06:13 GMT -6
It's funny, when I saw the rant by the protester in the second link, I imagined Dude Tyson had made it to NYC  |
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Post by boksmutant on Oct 6, 2011 21:02:12 GMT -6
I totally gotta represent Cthulhu while I'm there. Wish I had a shirt though. I'm going to stay the night, so I will make a sign for Cthulhu to show where I'm at.
As for the protest, it's good to have people gathered & getting used to gathering, I'll support em.
Awake!
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Post by dudetyson on Oct 6, 2011 22:48:25 GMT -6
Exaltation, Boks.
The stars are right. By this time next year, the right-angle intersection of Jupiter (magnitude), Saturn (destructive force) and Uranus (liberation) will be shaking things even stronger. I encourage everyone to at least visit your nearest example and speak to the people involved, if for nothing more than a learning experience.
Look for a city near you, here. www.occupytogether.org/ The right side of the page. Or anyone competent at using Google should be able to find it, they tend to advertise themselves decently to the Internet.
I don't mind being type-cast. While I do acknowledge the wisdom of indulging in things other than politics -- which is basically the reason for my presence here -- I feel that True Will calls me to physical manifestation. I'll be in the Philadelphian wing, which from what I hear from my network, is progressing excellently. A photo of their planning session:
![]() occupy philly.jpg[/img] [/b][/color] Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2011 2:26:01 GMT -6
FYI, I also believe the Obama administration to be anti-establishment. I'm tired of Republicans, Tea Baggers, Wall Street, banks, corporations, and billionaires influencing so much of our lives.
From where I am, this administration seems to be as pro-establishment than the previous one... I see no changes.
Except maybe a few words here or here...
Awake ! |
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Post by sin on Oct 7, 2011 6:52:25 GMT -6
I realize the media creates a current. I was speaking more in terms of what this protest will accomplish - actualization.
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 7, 2011 8:41:03 GMT -6
FYI, I also believe the Obama administration to be anti-establishment. I'm tired of Republicans, Tea Baggers, Wall Street, banks, corporations, and billionaires influencing so much of our lives.
From where I am, this administration seems to be as pro-establishment than the previous one... I see no changes.
Except maybe a few words here or here...
Awake !
Unfortunately for the Obama administration, no money-related legislation can be passed without approval of Congress. The Republican / Tea Party knows this. They don't care about the people, they care about power, and they believe that the Presidency is the most powerful position in the land, also having the most political capital.
The Republican / Tea Party needs Barack Obama to go down. That would be impossible if A. he was a great President and B. the country was in better shape by the end of his first term. They realize they can't change A. However, B is within their sphere of influence. The Republicans and Tea Party can simply halt any economic stimulus, reform, recovery, and justice by blocking every beneficial money-related legislation in the Congress which they control.
Meanwhile, the Republicans / Tea Party realize that progress is more popular than catering to the 1 or 2% wealthiest corporations and individuals. So, any misinformation is useful to them in a democratic country such as ours: Raise taxes on the wealthiest Americans? That will hurt the job creators and the economy!
That is why I believe the Obama administration is anti-establishment. He is trying to change things, but is having a Devil of a time because he is constantly stymied by those who don't like him because their jealous of his power and/or Obama wants to do real good for the 99 or 98% of Americans.
Getting information out there and informing voters can make the difference. Hell, so can raising awareness of the Cthulhu Cult! Anyone else feel like occupying holding a giant tentacled sign?
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis
Ipsissimus
Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by sin on Oct 7, 2011 10:07:12 GMT -6
Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr. Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors. Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment. Demand four: Free college education. Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand. Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now. Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants. Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment. Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live. Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system. Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period. Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies. Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union. Source: Occupy Wall Street Movement occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/Admin note: This is not an official list of demands. This is a forum post submitted by a single user and hyped by irresponsible news/commentary agencies like Fox News and Mises.org. This content was not published by the OccupyWallSt.org collective, nor was it ever proposed or agreed to on a consensus basis with the NYC General Assembly. There is NO official list of demands. See also: www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/good-lord-the-occupy-wall-street-imbeciles-release-their-idiotic-demands-20-minimum-wage-and-across-the-board-debt-forgiveness-for-all/ |
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Post by wren on Oct 8, 2011 17:26:30 GMT -6
That is quite a list of demands. What frustrates me the most is that the media wants to play this off as nothing but a group of slackers whining on Twitter about how unfair everything is. Doubtless there are some people like that, but as the YouTube videos prove, very well-informed, intelligent people are down there as well.
My question is, do you think that this protest really has the power to change things? Can the "99%" overthrow the "1%" and actually force the government to do what they want? (Of course, the French Revolution does come to my mind...)
We must be the darkness we wish to see in the world!
Wren
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Post by sin on Oct 10, 2011 6:35:37 GMT -6
 It's not an official list, but similar to some of the demands being made by individual protesters. It's satire, to demonstrate how absurd this protest is turning out, between individual protesters making outlandish demands in tandem with media hype and no real plan. So, any real change in direct response to the protest, will be lost in the media circus.
The intelligent and well-informed, will be few and far between. In my opinion, their energies could be used in some other organized effort, as it will be lost in this protest. |
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Post by boksmutant on Oct 10, 2011 13:11:09 GMT -6
What these protests are doing is bringing people back together & away from the media is how I look at em. Yes they have many different people making different demands, but that can be a strength & a weakness. The strength is that we finally have all these people talking & trying to convince the other, TALKING,negotiating & listning. It's awesome!
I went down to San Diego Saturday at noon & at 4 we marched to the civic center. All I wanted to do was listen & hear why others are here, but so was everyone else!
Anarchists, commie's,socialists, tea partiers & at least one black panther was there. It's the beginning so I'm sure they were all just getting a feel for the place, but it's just more important that they came. Everyone knows that this will take time, but it's what we should be doing instead of sitting at home watching TV.
Mothers & Fathers should be inspired to take their families to these events so they can show their kids how diverse & active the world really is. So it needs to be entertaining as well. We want to influence the broadest possible audience we can get & I'll argue with the best of em when they say "Your Cthulhu shit makes us look immature." FUCK YOU! we don't want to alienate anyone & we need this place to be FUCKING entertaining! & I got something to say! What some of these protesters might forget & I'll gladly remind them of is that we need more people! No matter what the cost, for this to work!
One idea I had that everyone at the protest liked, was to pull a pool together & pay to bring down some entertainment. Like one of those giant blow up Birthday party, kids, plastic ball, structures( I don't know what there called). And everyone loved the idea!
So like I said, we are in the perfect position to add what these protests need & keep em alive. We just need those damn pamphlets so I can make a "booth." Who knows how to do it?
Here's a fun song when I think of protests & the Cult:)
Awake!
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Post by sin on Oct 10, 2011 17:05:38 GMT -6
What do you need exactly? There is a small pamphlet that Venger sent me with the books, its one page folded in half. People took the rest of what I had on hand at MF8, but I kept a master copy to make more copies. He could send this to you in electronic format, I'm sure of it.
I also made copies of the Green Trap, those went quick too. That would be a hefty printing cost tho.
I also had some of the propaganda images on hand, it was a family event so I used the 'Build your own monster in your mind' image Jason Sorrell created for us. I printed 4 to a page, and that worked out nicely. All of this is available on the Cult Wiki for download (minus the pamphlet I mentioned).Propagand images are also available on my FB: www.facebook.com/groups/120192428048089/?id=211395468927784&ref=notif¬if_t=group_activity#!/media/set/?set=a.10150216912125689.312979.586455688&type=1 Wiki: cultofcthulhu.wikidot.com/Green Trapezoid: www.scribd.com/doc/65957728/Green-Trapezoid-Quarterly-2011 |
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Post by boksmutant on Oct 10, 2011 19:17:50 GMT -6
I'm not familiar with how & what keeps a protest going but i want to know if my angle on entertainment could bring about a good angle. Ultimately it's about being pissed off & wanting change, so I don't know what would work.
I'll accept pointers.
Awake!
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Post by sin on Oct 10, 2011 20:10:54 GMT -6
Sounds like a perfect opportunity for some alchemical experiementation!
Mu ha ha ha! So you have a bunch of folks pissed and ready to do some shit, but what? First, you have to keep them motivated. Not necessarily keeping them pissed, but taking that passion and transmuting it into some action; making an accausal reaction. People have to be motivated to move, and move in the same direction for a common goal. If people are organized in small groups, even propagandism is useful. Grab a bunch of folks to integrate themselves into those small groups, with a specific agenda in mind. It might start with assessing who's who, what their skills are, who they know and who the ideal people would be to spear-head other efforts. It may take getting petitions signed, taking polls, collecting data and above all else, getting people interested in taking action.
Entertaining them to bring a sense of increased community isn't a bad idea, but entertaining them to make it 'family day' seems to defeat the point.
CS
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Post by dudetyson on Oct 10, 2011 22:45:22 GMT -6
There's something off about critiquing this from the sidelines when I think you (Cora'Sahn) agree that this country needs considerable change, an outpouring of the majority to wrest control back. If I'm putting words in your mouth correct me, but I think we're on the same page about that.
Your description in the immediately-above post is precisely how political groups operate, from the commies on my end all the way over to the Ron Paul people who are interacting with Occupy in the same exact way. Of course this throws the "unity" right out the window, but I am all in favor of ideological competition.
Any large-scale social change is going to be a process. Part of the process is protest. A poll on the website of Fox News, a news channel that regularly attacks and mocks OWS, found that over 60% of people on their site support the message of the protests. I agree that these protests will not overthrow the government or change Wall Street, but they are helping consolidate a social consensus which may allow us to do that later.
What did the Tea Party accomplish? Did it physically do anything? No, its act was socio-political, and it did a LOT to shift the discussion in this country, and with the discussion often goes the policies. OWS/its extensions are similarly highlighting the market as the problem, by targeting Wall Street, by marching in front of banks, and the NYC section may soon actually parade INTO the nearby mansions of the super-wealthy.
Of course, I support an employees' democratic takeover of workplaces, the banks, the economy, and a forcible redistribution of any remaining massive gaps in wealth. The OWS scene is the perfect place to advocate this idea, taking the spontaneous, hardship-driven anger and channeling it into an ideology which can actually concretely achieve the aspirations implied in the semi-conscious mass anger.
It begs the question -- how can Cthulhuism do the same thing? What about our ideology matches with what's going on in the Occupy scene? I hate to say it but I often feel that a clear political ideology does more service to these people than a religion, but I'm willing to hear different opinions on that.
Also, for concrete immediacy, many Occupy sites have sent solidarity marches to picket lines of striking workers, whatever your opinion on that might be.
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Post by sin on Oct 11, 2011 13:08:56 GMT -6
According to the Whitehouse website, having a petition signed to be presented to the President - will give it more attention.
wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/petition/recognize-men-and-women-who-are-occupying-wall-street/tX0ZX8Z7
5,000 signatures, seems like a low goal, they have exceeded it by over 4000 but, you would think the aim would have been higher.
CS
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Post by sin on Oct 11, 2011 13:18:42 GMT -6
Here's an awesome tidbit for our economic crisis!
New York City Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly reported on October 7 that Occupy Wall Street has cost the Police Department $1.9 million in overtime.
Source: www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/148557/kelly--nypd-presence-at-wall-street-protests-costly/
Again, with no real plan or cohesion, I don't see what this protest will actualize. Even if the Obama Administration Acknowledges it in the press, its just more 'talk' to pacify the unsettled masses.
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Post by sin on Oct 11, 2011 14:22:45 GMT -6
Sorry Dude, we must have been posting at the same time. To answer your question more directly, YES we agree that this country needs considerable change. I think what we don't seem to agree on, is this protest in particular. I do not see this protest actualizing that change (or any change), and comparing it to the Tea Party is apples to shoes - in my opinion.
There is no true cohesion, its willy nilly protesting, with no clear goal, demands, etc. The bottom line just communicates: We are unhappy, and every single complaint they have about this country and its economics is being rolled in. The satire about the protest and the protesting may reap more than the actual protest. I would say in that regard, the CoC could insert itself right in there, to wave its tentacle and show Americans how automated their behavior is overall.
No solutions, are being offered that I can see. I'd rather see a dozen critical thinkers around a table brainstorming ideas, than I would see 10,000 blissfully ignorant Americans.
Take NY as just one example. Do New Yorkers really give a shit, if their tax dollars just got shifted to cover the overtime, let alone the salaries of the police just to manage the protesters? Then when money is moved around to accommodate this expense, they cry corruption! Like I said, blissfully ignorant of economics and how it all works, ( is interconnected, and on a grander scale -) globally.
I really liked the gorilla infiltration of the media by 4Chan, Anonymous. That's where we should be, in that genre of shocking the system. I was hopeful for the promo vid Dark Prism was working on, but not sure where that stands at the moment. Some of that stuff could be cut, manipulated and overlayed with a resounding message to America to Wake The Fuck Up.
CS
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Oct 11, 2011 22:24:01 GMT -6
Good for you Boks! Though I'll also concur with our beloved Ipsissimus in that the republicans/tea baggers are holding him back, and with good reason! Also Dude Tyson, I looked up your link and there aren't any protests in my area. Not a surprise really as I live in a red state... Wait! That gives me an idea!
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Oct 11, 2011 22:28:00 GMT -6
Good for you Boks! Though I'll also concur with our beloved Ipsissimus in that the republicans/tea baggers are holding him back, and with good reason! Also Dude Tyson, I looked up your link and there aren't any protests in my area. Not a surprise really as I live in a red state... Wait! That gives me an idea! I just posted a link to the site on Facebook to see if anyone in my area will stand with me!
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Post by sin on Oct 12, 2011 10:36:49 GMT -6
The protests in my area, are chaotic. It's a college town, as well as Military. Most of the protesters were holding up signs for FREE COLLEGE. Talking with a few, its as I concluded from the reports. No real cohesion. The one thing that I can see using as an advantage, is people are getting up and ready to start some form of revolution - they are just unsure as to what or how it will actualize.
The buzz in the air, is that this is just the beginning of things to come for 2012. It all leads back to that. I think people are really looking forward to some apocalyptic change in our world. It has been my firm opinion, that in order for anything to truly change - it will have to be as a result of cataclysm. Rather than supporting the systems we have that don't work (or work well), it will take a complete destruction of them. It will begin with economic decline, money being de-valued, and the world operating as it had before there was a system. More and more people would like to go back instead of forward. Bartering, service exchange - etc. all sound like great ideas; however when reviewing the population numbers - makes little sense.
My thoughts on this whole thing, is that this buzz could be given inertia and led to workable solutions to common problems in this country (as well as others, interconnectedness). I've been involved in think-tanks before, and it usually ends the same. It becomes a cult of personality and falls apart. I'm not interested in a popularity contest. I'm interested in the country's best minds, brainstorming ideas. It could start at a local level, and become viral.
I was using my Satanic Mind group as a way to find them years ago - the 'Satanic' was provoking enough to get the attention of people I was interested in talking with. To include members of Abrahamic Religions, that understand its provocation. I may do something similar to that in 2012. I'll be keeping a watchful eye over these protests. CS
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Post by sin on Oct 13, 2011 7:53:38 GMT -6
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Post by sin on Oct 14, 2011 7:50:53 GMT -6
Listening to the protester commentary on the radio today (Occupy Norfolk, VA), and its painfully apparent to me that some folks just don't know economics.
Here's the thing about the bank bail-outs, what if the banks were not bailed out and allowed to collapse? Where does that leave the working man? The small business man?
A protester called in, to complain about the 'Hippies' and how these 'fools' did not represent the intelligent working-class American, then went on to talk unintelligibly about our economic system.
A Norfolk 'Hippy' called in, to respond to the commentary and sounded more intelligent in my opinion. The caller talked about Grand-standing in NY, does nothing to bring forth change. There are representatives locally, that are making these economic decisions for 'we the people'. The 'Hippies' are at these protests, trying to get the protesters together to form crowds in front of the reps homes, to demand their attention. The local reps have stopped listening to the 99%, in favor of the 1% which can fund economic agendas.
Listening to both commentators, seemed to me the Hippy had the right idea. Throwing all the issues out there, is a sure way to be ignored. More focused attention, and a clear agenda - is a good way to get the attention needed for your cause.
CS
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Post by boksmutant on Oct 14, 2011 9:56:07 GMT -6
I know a lot of people are there for different things, but I hear it's simply Economic & Financial reform. They all agree on that. I also hear they don't want to be represented by anyone specific.
Awake!
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Post by sin on Oct 14, 2011 10:46:47 GMT -6
For the most part, sure - its all Economic reform complaints (of some variety), I think its easier to demand it, than it is to see a way to reform it. I'm amazed at the number of people who can't even balance a simple check book, let alone a budget.
For example, when I asked the protesters who were demanding FREE COLLEGE, how that was a viable demand, the answers were astounding. In other words, how can such an education be provided free? Should college professors teach pro-bono? Should text-book publishers also donate books, in the spirit of helping the American get a leg-up by becoming educated with skills? What about teaching facilities? The Utilities to run them? I got deer in the headlights, and a laundry list of reasons why these people think they are entitled to Free Education. I'm sorry, I just can't take these people seriously.
CS
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