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Post by cortwilliams on Dec 14, 2012 1:53:44 GMT -6
Yes, the LHP expresses itself in terms of a dichotomy, but primarily I find this dichotomy is useful as a means of articulating what one stands for by contrasting it with what one does not. The hair-splitting aspect, I think, comes into play when one tries to apply the dichotomy too generally, as this can result in an "apples and oranges" situation, to borrow the words of Lord Satanis.
Hail Satanis! Cort
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Post by patience on Dec 14, 2012 11:11:11 GMT -6
I'm happy that more people have shared their thoughts about these things because I was a bit bummed that no one was sharing. I knew there were a lot of things that I did not understand so reading this input, though still confusing, will be helpful as I reflect back on the readings.
Don't worry, be happy, make efforts
Peace
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Post by I AM the Way on Dec 14, 2012 16:57:19 GMT -6
Self-doubt is part of one's confidence.
At the beginning, it can be easily ignored. One doesn't need to choose sides, let alone know they exist in order to start the Work. But eventually, a Cultist should ask, "What's it all about then, eh?" That ultimate answer is connected to Self-Deification. I believe that the LHP is the correct approach, while the rhp leads to essence annihilation.
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Dec 15, 2012 8:28:25 GMT -6
One could argue that The Fourth Way and Esoterics in general is technically RHP, but that depends in the approach. I was looking at other Fourth Way teaching modalities for a comparison, and found a number that give credence to external forces, gods, etc. not much different than using the godforms in the mythos.
I think it can become too confusing for people to sort out (right from left) and so they abandon it all together.
Becoming can be dismissed as fate, destiny, the plans of the gods, etc. I see it all the time in Fourth Way teaching texts. It's as if man should take no credit for becoming what he is.
If the quote provided by Cort is, in any regard, true:
"kosmic symbiosis with the powers of the World-All while at the same time retaining a Luciferian separation which allows us to become world creators..."
Perhaps it's important to work equally in tandem with the rhp ideologies, not much different than that adopted by ONA to create a unique Hermetic view that seeks to dissolve the duality, dividing line, and allow that symbiosis to create something worthwhile.
The unique symbiosis that occurs within the cult paradigm, I think the real question to ask is: How can a cultist remain asleep?
Just some thoughts...
CS
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Post by cortwilliams on Dec 15, 2012 9:56:42 GMT -6
"One could argue that The Fourth Way and Esoterics in general is technically RHP, but that depends in the approach."
Flowers makes a pretty strong case for a LHP interpretation of the fourth way in "Lords of the Left-Hand Path". The concept of crystallization of consciousness, for instance, has exerted an influence on models of LHP self-deification.
"I was looking at other Fourth Way teaching modalities for a comparison, and found a number that give credence to external forces, gods, etc. not much different than using the godforms in the mythos."
Work with external godforms is, in my understanding, not at all incompatible with the LHP when this work is applied to the process of individuated self-deification.
"Perhaps it's important to work equally in tandem with the rhp ideologies, not much different than that adopted by ONA to create a unique Hermetic view that seeks to dissolve the duality, dividing line, and allow that symbiosis to create something worthwhile." Dissolution of the duality between self and cosmos strikes me as incompatible with the notion of individuated self-deification in the Left-Hand path, hence the portion of my quote "retaining a Luciferian separation which allows us to become world creators." The idea of mixing LHP and RHP ideologies sounds rather close to abandoning the LHP, which I understand from "Cthulhu Cult" is a pillar of the CoC paradigm.
Hail Satanis! Cort Williams
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Post by I AM the Way on Dec 15, 2012 13:28:20 GMT -6
Because choosing sides is unnecessary when starting the Work, I think that various distinctions arise in 4th Way groups which lead to divergence from what some practitioners might call the authentic or true Fourth Way. Is this because the teaching is fragmented... because its source is more or less unknown? Or does nature merely take its course, degenerating results.
Man can't take any credit for what he's given. However, what he does with it - that rests squarely upon his shoulders. We're unfinished beings, half done but with the potential to become like God. It's a strange place to be, a strange relationship we have with the universe.
The right hand path attempts to build a kingdom for the lesser gods of the earth where partial, stunted souls are mixed with suffering in order to create mortar. Opposing this is the desire to build a kingdom for the individual magician/Cultist/LHP practitioner, the mortar between his bricks coming from the lesser gods and their tyrannic antagonism.
Eventually, one side will triumph over the other. Without proper understanding (knowledge and being), humans automatically fall upon the right hand path. The Left Hand Path exists exclusively for those who wish to overcome essence annihilation.
It can be framed without a dichotomy, of course - the LHP as third side. But when it comes down to it, the individual must decide if he's going to allow the lesser gods to dominate him or the other way around.
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Dec 19, 2012 12:04:21 GMT -6
I think that's really all that matters at the end of the day. Should we suffer needlessly or use it as a conscious modality for personal achievement and acquisition? I say, YES! Existence is suffering, the key is to not make yourself merely food for the lesser gods.
As far as working within the VOID, where duality has been dissolved; if I had to choose an allegory, it would be similar to concepts in the Matrix film. Neo can see the place in between reality and the matrix, and operate within it for his purposes.
CS
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Post by I AM the Way on Dec 19, 2012 15:40:00 GMT -6
I think that's really all that matters at the end of the day. Should we suffer needlessly or use it as a conscious modality for personal achievement and acquisition? I say, YES! Existence is suffering, the key is to not make yourself merely food for the lesser gods.
As far as working within the VOID, where duality has been dissolved; if I had to choose an allegory, it would be similar to concepts in the Matrix film. Neo can see the place in between reality and the matrix, and operate within it for his purposes.
CS If you like, the third side is what comes after our initial decision to not be the universe's puppet - operating within those shadowy regions betwixt illusion and true reality (realitatum veritas). Many of us start the journey with that decision already made... a given set in stone long, long ago. Nevertheless, it doesn't hurt to re-state our opposition to the lesser gods of the earth.
Cultists demand Godhood! That's why we're here, and we're not going to settle for anything less.
Awake!
VS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Dec 19, 2012 16:18:25 GMT -6
VS, what's a lesser god of the earth?
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Post by I AM the Way on Dec 20, 2012 6:15:15 GMT -6
VS, what's a lesser god of the earth? Good question, Shawn.
The broadest definition would be any authority which demands obedience without having that individual's best intentions at heart. If this is the case, then we can find lesser gods of the earth all over the place. Specifically, lesser gods are forces that feed upon our suffering.
Awake!
VS
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Post by wren on Dec 22, 2012 21:29:54 GMT -6
VS, what's a lesser god of the earth? Good question, Shawn.
The broadest definition would be any authority which demands obedience without having that individual's best intentions at heart. If this is the case, then we can find lesser gods of the earth all over the place. Specifically, lesser gods are forces that feed upon our suffering.
Awake!
VS
So, by that definition, would you consider other humans lesser gods in a way? For instance, a person that doesn't care for others and simply seeks control? ~Wren
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