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Post by lokidreaming on Mar 20, 2012 18:47:46 GMT -6
Circular time help please,
I am looking for information on circular and non linear time material, is there any books I should read or any websites I should go to please?
Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 21, 2012 10:23:11 GMT -6
Circular time? Does that have something to do with Gnosis? If not, then you've posted in the wrong thread. Also, for best results, you should include your reasons for why you need reading material on circular time.
Anyways, I'm wondering how everyone is doing with the book. Any other hiccups, revelations, or things you'd like to talk about? Let's hear them!
One last thing, I've been replacing "orchestrate" for "constate" and "orchestration" instead of "constatation". It seems to do the job while staying in tune with Gnosis words such as ensemble and gamut. Those words stopped me cold whenever I came across them until I thought of a suitable replacement. Perhaps, this will aid others, too.
Awake!
VS
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Post by lokidreaming on Mar 21, 2012 18:37:11 GMT -6
Circular time? Does that have something to do with Gnosis? If not, then you've posted in the wrong thread. Also, for best results, you should include your reasons for why you need reading material on circular time.
Awake!
VS
Chapter 13 and 14, that is where I got it from and the reason why I want more information on it is I am slowly but surely understanding this concept and would like to do more in depth research into it as it is something I need to master scholarly and practically. I think you here at COC call this non-linear time? I relate this to the spirals others use to describe or confuse/interchange with circular time Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by patience on Mar 22, 2012 8:26:46 GMT -6
I keep running over this section here: 'It is the same with the woman who, in this modern world, is endowedwith refined emotions, and finds herself in conditions which permit her torealize rapid progress on the esoteric plane. In fact the tendency to develop the intellectual qualities in our civilization favours the equilibrium of hercentres, on condition, however, that even if dazzled by science she does notlose her feminine emotionality and does not become too calculating. Forher, this preservation of her femininity is an obstacle, a competitive test bywhich selection is automatically made. She must beware of acquiring amasculine mentality and identifying with this. A male mind in a woman'sbody excludes the possibility of esoteric development. This type of womanis unfortunately widespread in our days, as is that of the effeminate man,representing what the Tradition calls the neutral sex.'
pg 190
I am struggling with this part because personally one of my issues is that I want be a stronger person...and as a woman I am confused in figuring out what he means by using this term 'feminine emotionality'...
Is it because of the time the book was written? I don't know, I keep going back to it... so I wanted to bring it up.
Don't worry. Be happy. Make efforts.
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Post by Gish on Mar 22, 2012 10:10:11 GMT -6
I keep running over this section here: 'It is the same with the woman who, in this modern world, is endowedwith refined emotions, and finds herself in conditions which permit her torealize rapid progress on the esoteric plane. In fact the tendency to develop the intellectual qualities in our civilization favours the equilibrium of hercentres, on condition, however, that even if dazzled by science she does notlose her feminine emotionality and does not become too calculating. Forher, this preservation of her femininity is an obstacle, a competitive test bywhich selection is automatically made. She must beware of acquiring amasculine mentality and identifying with this. A male mind in a woman'sbody excludes the possibility of esoteric development. This type of womanis unfortunately widespread in our days, as is that of the effeminate man,representing what the Tradition calls the neutral sex.' pg 190 I am struggling with this part because personally one of my issues is that I want be a stronger person...and as a woman I am confused in figuring out what he means by using this term 'feminine emotionality'... Is it because of the time the book was written? I don't know, I keep going back to it... so I wanted to bring it up. Don't worry. Be happy. Make efforts. I believe this is referring to what he stated at the beginning of that chapter mixed with a bit of the thoughts of the time, women were meant to be more focused on relationships and helping their man, as it says woman is deprived of the capacity of walking directly to a goal and thus needs a man, whilst a man needs a woman for the inspiration of his goal. If a woman gains a males mindset and works toward their goal they may be uninspired to do so as would her man leaving them both unable to develop esoterically and so the "kingdom of God" is closed to them. I don't see the problem though . . . I'm pretty sure a man can be the one who "inspires" and a woman can be a "goal setter". That's just what I got from it though, I'm sure someone else will have a good interpretation or will be able to get their view across better Awake!
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Post by lokidreaming on Mar 22, 2012 17:27:06 GMT -6
In the old days most females weren't allowed to study stuff like this and was strictly forbidden to them, even the gnostic had certain elitist views of females potential to receive and be perceptive of knowledge like a man.
From my personal understanding, the ancients most likely misinterpreted more ancient writings and knowledge due to the more ancient knowledge tend to divide stuff into masculine and feminine.
eg, when you think feminine, it evokes certain feelings and vibes as you are thinking about masculine altogether different feelings and vibes and back in the ancient days stuff like grammar and science and writing wasn't invented yet, so they only had feelings and simple analogy to go with, this feel feminine cos, this feels masculine cos...and also the energy radiated out from a male or female is totally different eg, Medusa's stare, that is exactly what it is like when a female stares at you when you a in trouble.
The ancients were very well versed in the different energies of the male and female and used the knowledge accordingly very well.
So my take on the quoted statement is about gaining emotional stability and using their views on females lack of emotional and males excellent emotional control as a example.
This is my take on it and now waiting for VS input to this.
Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2012 9:17:09 GMT -6
chapter XIV p126
"If we were to imagine a perfect World based on a principle of perfect and stable equilibrium, it would be a petrified image—that of Death. To summarize, we can say that Life is the effect of a vibratory play at every step of the Universe, a play which in every case takes the form of a perturbation of equilibrium, followed by its restoration."
In this chapter the principle of Equilibrium is worth carefully studying...
Awake.
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Post by pocketguy on Mar 23, 2012 19:55:08 GMT -6
There's good stuff in Gnosis I, but I can identify some clear poison so I strongly disrecommend swallowing it whole.
Specifically, pdf page 207, page number 188, paragraph 2: "In the Cycle to come, the new characteristic of the elite man will be his ability to distinguish, spontaneously, without warrant or demonstrating proof, the true from the false."
If a man is self-aware, he knows how he knows the true from the false, and that knowledge of how he arrived at the conclusion will be a proof that the conclusion is valid.
This belief, even if true, creates twisted incentives for the not-quite-elite. If you are cautious and want evidence before jumping to conclusions, then you're obviously not elite, and are of low status. Better to close your eyes, jump to a conclusion, and then claim high confidence in it. Conversely, if you want evidence for someone else's conclusion, then you're both proving that you're not elite and casting doubt upon them.
One percent of the population is schizophrenic and will have strongly held false beliefs driven by psychosis. Four percent are sociopaths and will tell expedient lies. Thus 5% of the people will be willing to claim high confidence in a belief even when the alleged belief has no merit at all.
If Mouravieff thought he was part of this elite and he was wrong, then everything else he said is cast into doubt, since he will have conviction without necessarily having correctness. It's a very brittle way of doing business.
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 25, 2012 8:55:15 GMT -6
Regarding the posts asking about male and female roles, as well as, skepticism and disbelief, let me direct your attention to Chapter 17, part 9.
The Work will be studied by one of two types, emotional and intellectual. Those who naturally take the emotional approach (known as Men #2) are more open minded and trusting. They have the capability to believe and put their faith in something before seeing the end result or final proof. However, the danger is that Man #2 might lose objectivity, leading him deeper into the labyrinth of illusion.
The intellectual type (Man #3) is more objective and questioning right from the start... to a fault. He will have difficulty believing any of this, will not put stock into a system without seeing empirical evidence of its validity, let alone superiority to other systems. Unfortunately, tangible results won't come unless a student commits himself to the Work for a significant period of time."In principle, man 3 is endowed with a tendency not to believe." Women, even masculine an intellectual ones, are passive or emotionally receptive beings. That is not to say a woman cannot be considered Man #3, but biologically (or perhaps neurologically) their energy or vibration has a certain aspect or function or role within the male/female dichotomy. Similarly, the male has an active function or role within the paradigm.
Can a role reversal yield positive results? Probably, but circumstances would have to be perfect. Since the Work on its own is difficult to negotiate, exceptions to the rule are almost negligible. I think that's what Mouravieff is saying. Is this part of the Tradition clouded by cultural bias? Possibly, but there are far more ancient teachings professing the same thing than railing against it. Men are from Mars, women from Venus.[/b][/color] There's good stuff in Gnosis I, but I can identify some clear poison so I strongly disrecommend swallowing it whole. Specifically, pdf page 207, page number 188, paragraph 2: "In the Cycle to come, the new characteristic of the elite man will be his ability to distinguish, spontaneously, without warrant or demonstrating proof, the true from the false." If a man is self-aware, he knows how he knows the true from the false, and that knowledge of how he arrived at the conclusion will be a proof that the conclusion is valid. This belief, even if true, creates twisted incentives for the not-quite-elite. If you are cautious and want evidence before jumping to conclusions, then you're obviously not elite, and are of low status. Better to close your eyes, jump to a conclusion, and then claim high confidence in it. Conversely, if you want evidence for someone else's conclusion, then you're both proving that you're not elite and casting doubt upon them. One percent of the population is schizophrenic and will have strongly held false beliefs driven by psychosis. Four percent are sociopaths and will tell expedient lies. Thus 5% of the people will be willing to claim high confidence in a belief even when the alleged belief has no merit at all. If Mouravieff thought he was part of this elite and he was wrong, then everything else he said is cast into doubt, since he will have conviction without necessarily having correctness. It's a very brittle way of doing business. First off, you jumped ahead. I had not assigned reading beyond page 137. That's fine if you want to read ahead, but be aware that some members of the study group haven't covered those pages.
This whole train of thought seems twisted, manufactured for the sole purpose of disproving the Tradition (or Work) which Mouravieff teaches.
Have you read any Nietzsche? What are your thoughts on his idea of the Super-Man? Do you think it's possible to have a group of men on a higher evolutionary scale than the rest of humanity? If so, then wouldn't such men have physical, emotional, intellectual, and spiritual powers which appear super-human to the masses? If not, then why must all men stay on the same level? And why bother to study esotericism? How is this future cycle of man different than Ouspensky or Gurdjieff talking about the Conscious Circle of Humanity? Or Lovecraft describing strange new aeons where the Great Old Ones shall return?
Read up to Chapter 19, page 192 by Tuesday night. I'd like to see some discussion on the Way, General Law, Law of Exception, outer and inner considering, Equilibrium, and the cage we must build within ourselves. A couple of these subjects have already been touched upon, but not to a sufficient degree.
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Mar 26, 2012 9:28:20 GMT -6
I'm glad to see active participation in this study. This is great Work, and happy to see the enthusiasm.
I'll most likely participate at this point, I've been catching up on the read of Book 1.
I did want to elaborate on this point.
The paradigm is an active mechanism for becoming. More than you were yesterday, and in introspect discovering who you are today. What is being described as 'Esoteric Christianity' has always been Esoteric, it is control agents such as the 'church' that forced it into the Exoteric. This is ages past, another time, but still in use by cultures today. Depending on where you live, each society is experiencing growth, and evolution. For us here in the United States, we are still a very young nation. 500 years is nothing in comparison to many places, such as the Cradle of Civilization that is thousands years old.
In my opinion it is highly Satanic to transcend an imagined and projected buffer between Christianity and Satanism, what each person revels against is the culture of control. The Christ, is just that. Salvation from slavery, and striving towards building the kingdom of God within. Christ, was the adversary of his time, and reminder of the slumber that people find themselves in. Especially those trapped within the city walls and justifying their slave morality (see Nietzsche).
The dynamic between Christ and Judas is an important one, it serves to remind us that mankind is corrupt. He will corrupt himself, all the while believing he is serving a higher purpose.
Cthulhu represents the wisdom at the gate. You can liken it to the gates of St. Michael. Satan represents the natural state of man, and it opposes progress if not kept in check. I elaborate on this point in my paper Taming Primal Essence.
In our natural state, we are at the fundamental level of being. We have the potential for becoming so much more than an animal who wants to eat and re-produce. In fact, our potential is limitless. The war in heaven is not a literal war, it is a symbolic one, the internal struggle. The Islamists call this the Jihad. Hitler referred to it as Mein Kampf, but at the end of the day it represents a struggle within the root of our very being.
You can lead a man to the river, but you can not force him to drink. Sure, you can force his head under water, but he'll only resent you for it, and rebel for the sake of rebellion alone.
You gotta give Venger the credit for working every angle possible to get his primary message through. I think it's often lost, as each cultist is distracted by their influences, attachment, and suffering.
Mouravieff's work is worthy of consideration, given the time and attention he's spent creating more cohesion and basic understanding. I prefer the symbolic prose of Gurjieff, but I can certainly recognize the value of this study on a grander scale.
I'm Hermetic, so I don't struggle with the internal conflict that most Satanists have with Biblical parables and teaching mechanics. The church would never have gained such power and control, if the people put up the blocking hand and showed them the Way. Lest we forget, that the 'people' outnumber the extraordinary man, but being extraordinary they can certainly rule them with very little effort.
Ask yourself this: How does one man control millions?
You answer that, and honestly - you are on your way to realizing your own power and autonomy.
Make efforts.
CS
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Post by lokidreaming on Mar 26, 2012 19:01:56 GMT -6
Reading this book is making my head spin due to the information swimming round due to I can relate certain phrases to other belief systems and ancient cults therefore understated most or part of the history of those phrases.
So, I have been holding back on my opinions due I don't want to overwhelm this chain of posts with stuff like or to confuse the situation for those who is just getting into this type of book which I am well versed in, so it is a breeze for me at times, but relating it back to the 4th way is trickier for me, which I am working on.
SO, permission not to hold back and just pour all more thoughts and musings into this post or the other way round, make sure it is relevant to the 4th stuff and etc.
Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 27, 2012 11:50:50 GMT -6
It may be superfluous, but I should like us to remember that people, religions, ideologies, etc. are the way they are because the world shapes them. The laws and octaves emanating from the Ray of Creation, this entire symphony of life dictates how everyone and everything operates.
Christianity could go no other way than what it has, the same with Satanism, and all aspects of life which are not consciously acted upon by those who are Awake. If there is conspiracy against the human race, then it is the lesser gods of the earth who are behind it... not man himself. Any kind of authority which agents or institutions enjoy is only another symbol of mechanical life. These agents and institutions merely ride the wave; they do not command it. The only real power and control individuals have is to stop. Instead of being carried along the stream of life, fight against the current - not to swim in the opposite direction, rebel for rebellion's sake, but to liberate ourselves once and for all! Creating inner freedom which states of higher consciousness yield. Sometimes, it's as simple as standing up and walking to shore.
Yes, lokidreaming, speak freely. However, please go over what you've written a few times before hitting the Post Reply button. Thank you.
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Mar 27, 2012 11:59:13 GMT -6
Good points VS, to put it another context the Lesser gods rise up and throw the Old Ones in a suspended state, until they regain their power to re-enter this world; awakened and ready to act on their own behalf.
We are standing At The Mountains of Madness.
hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/mm.asp
One could argue that these commanded systems remain in place, as the people acknowledge their power over them.
CS
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2012 4:07:18 GMT -6
This book is wonderful.
Please let me emphasis the importance of Chapter XVI and the fundamental importance to escape the hold of the General Law. I'd like to quote the whole chapter... It's the beginning of the Work, the basis. Something new is the necessity to be discreet, to delay the negative reaction of the world to our enterprise. So we have to look like as if nothing changed, until we escape the hold of the world.
Apart from the rest, I'd like to note that chapter XV (see figure 48) confirm the validity of this drawing of Lord Satanis :
The message is that there is only one Way, and no matter where you come from (satanism or christianity for example), by studying and progressing you are getting nearer and nearer of the others doing the same efforts. And ultimately you will join them.
Awake.
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Post by lokidreaming on Mar 31, 2012 20:02:35 GMT -6
Master Satanis,
Requesting that each Sunday your time, you post online what page you would like us to get up to and by when (so I can schedule reading time in for this) as I am starting to really juggle my time schedule now.
Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 1, 2012 6:48:11 GMT -6
We don't get a proper definition, and therefore understanding, of "constate" until Chapter 20, part 6 on page 207. I'm not sure why it took so long, but it's nice to know that constatation actually means Self-Remembering. However, mixed with remembering oneself or doubling one's awareness, internal constatation and external constatation should be defined as internal consideration and external consideration, respectively. This will be helpful to Fourth Way students.
For those who are only starting Gnosis right now, I suggest reading Chapter 20, part 6 before Chapter 1. Otherwise, continue normally.
Yes, like Yrreiht, I also enjoyed reading about the General Law and how to escape its notice. So often, we see an individual charge onto these boards with guns blazing and some enthusiastic diatribe upon their lips. Those paying attention know that such individuals almost never make it. Too much force too soon. The ostentatious Cultist is the first to be cut down by the lesser gods of the earth. Those with humble beginnings have a chance.
Why does not drawing attention to oneself make such a difference? Is the universe actively watching us? Does it somehow know? Is it a form of self-sabotage? And let's say it does recognize the early effort parade. Why would it strike us down unless it felt threatened? Yes, the lesser gods have as much to fear of the Awakened as we have to fear them. In the end, and on an individual level, only one side shall be victorious. That is the essence of the Left Hand Path.
Any other thoughts on the book? What else grabs you or causes consternation? Who wants to tackle questions answered or unanswered from the first 4 pages of this thread? Let's hear it!
Finish volume I by Wednesday night and post about it here. I'd also like to see a few well-written amazon reviews for Book One - Exoteric Cycle. Acquire Book Two - Mesoteric Cycle by 4/15. We should keep the momentum going.
By His loathsome tentacles,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Ipsissimus Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by lokidreaming on Apr 4, 2012 17:37:45 GMT -6
Will have my next report up on next Tuesday or Wednesday time as I need time to digest and process all the information.
How far past page 207 do you want me to read by then? As I am assuming more pages are to be read by then.
Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 4, 2012 20:04:29 GMT -6
Will have my next report up on next Tuesday or Wednesday time as I need time to digest and process all the information. How far past page 207 do you want me to read by then? As I am assuming more pages are to be read by then. Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming Finish the book ASAP. Looking forward to your report.
Awake!
VS
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Post by oola on Apr 6, 2012 3:14:11 GMT -6
We don't get a proper definition, and therefore understanding, of "constate" until Chapter 20, part 6 on page 207. I'm not sure why it took so long, but it's nice to know that constatation actually means Self-Remembering. However, mixed with remembering oneself or doubling one's awareness, internal constatation and external constatation should be defined as internal consideration and external consideration, respectively. This will be helpful to Fourth Way students.
For those who are only starting Gnosis right now, I suggest reading Chapter 20, part 6 before Chapter 1. Otherwise, continue normally.
Yes, like Yrreiht, I also enjoyed reading about the General Law and how to escape its notice. So often, we see an individual charge onto these boards with guns blazing and some enthusiastic diatribe upon their lips. Those paying attention know that such individuals almost never make it. Too much force too soon. The ostentatious Cultist is the first to be cut down by the lesser gods of the earth. Those with humble beginnings have a chance.
Why does not drawing attention to oneself make such a difference? Is the universe actively watching us? Does it somehow know? Is it a form of self-sabotage? And let's say it does recognize the early effort parade. Why would it strike us down unless it felt threatened? Yes, the lesser gods have as much to fear of the Awakened as we have to fear them. In the end, and on an individual level, only one side shall be victorious. That is the essence of the Left Hand Path.
Any other thoughts on the book? What else grabs you or causes consternation? Who wants to tackle questions answered or unanswered from the first 4 pages of this thread? Let's hear it!
Finish volume I by Wednesday night and post about it here. I'd also like to see a few well-written amazon reviews for Book One - Exoteric Cycle. Acquire Book Two - Mesoteric Cycle by 4/15. We should keep the momentum going.
By His loathsome tentacles,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Ipsissimus Cult of Cthulhu
I completely agree Ipsissimus. The meaning of 'constatation' is only understood at a later page. On several occassions i had to check for the word in the dictionary but to no avail. It is now that i have read your explanation that it begins to makes sense. All the while i read it through applying what soever meaning that the trend implies to me.3gkd98
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Post by oola on Apr 6, 2012 3:17:21 GMT -6
My system did some funny things and posted the above before i could finish.
Still i am equally done with book one and will send my review
ia ia Ipsissimus ia ia Cthulhu Fhtagn
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2012 15:48:07 GMT -6
Chapter XIX So the time has (at least !?) a second dimension. See fig 54 & 55, interesting theory to explain the predictions.
Chapter XX p. 216-220, a very important description of the road-map to man N°5. Maybe the most important pages of the book. That’s not that easy to look objectively at yourself ; I suggest to make more efforts here, to ask yourself as objectively as possible, what do I look like? Unless you are already N°5, the result will be not as pleasant as what you think… I understand that facing the monster-personality without buffers is igniting the final fire for the final step.
Chapter XXI I’m not sure I’ll believe in the “film” that repeat itself again and again at the same time and place… Even after admitting the time is not what it seems, a variant in the “film” may seriously affect the “film” of other peoples, and may even terminate it (or even worse making it impossible to begin) so I see logical impossibilities. The importance of polar being! But you must not escape your obligations to find her/him… The golden rule to combine the work of the emotional center with the work of the intellectual center is what I retain.
The ground is on fire upon which you stand !
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Post by patience on Apr 7, 2012 10:01:01 GMT -6
Page 248 and 249 have been of great interest to me. I have read them a few times now.
The polar being part, is of great interest to me but also becomes a hang up. Being that I am extremely embedded in a marriage with my friend who I have been with since I was 14. Because we have had some major issues around what it is to be together with someone for so long, and to unite when so young, I keep coming back to page 248. Honestly after all I have put us through it makes me nervous to harp on the topic in my mind.
Do you think this polar being has to be a marriage partner or romantic partner? And then I wonder if it's my old issues confusing me and holding me back from seeing what my current relationship is or could be. Obviously I am sharing that I have a complicated relationship.
'His exterior efforts must above all be directed towards the creation of these circumstances, not towards seeking direct influence over people: this kind of influence often seems opportune, but in the great majority of cases it is an error. Instead of unravel ling the situation, the influence creates karmic debts which complicate things all the more. One must be very prudent and circumspect. Yet new circumstances must be created in a way that effectively helps those interested to act in the direction desired. ' - this something in my own life that I have struggled with. Working away from the desire to have a direct influence over others. Every time I read it I hear myself saying 'This is going going to be hard'.
The other thing is that I notice how pissy I can get when I sense that others are setting up situation for me and I know what they would like to see from me, and I get more caught up in testing them and running away. It becomes ridiculous at times. Mostly I think it is because I see things in them and in their life that I find distasteful. Though a lot of the times I see the very same things in myself and in my own life.
It seems that a lot of my life I have been looking to find the right people that I feel inspired by.
I don't really have the in-depth knowledge that a lot you people on this forum have... so I am trying my best to contribute by sharing myself. I finished the book but keep rereading sections based on everyone's comments and areas that I jotted down in my journal that I felt were interesting.
peace
Don't worry. Be happy. Make efforts.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 8, 2012 14:30:58 GMT -6
Can you explain this a bit more? Give us a concrete example please.
It's important to reconcile the following items which seem, on the surface, irreconcilable. 1) That Mouravieff is a conscious teacher / Fourth Way Master whose advice we should heed. 2) Each 4th Way Master has his own specialty, style, focus, influences, strong suit, blind spots, and weakness (chief feature). Even though conscious teachers teach the same material, no two teachers are exactly the same. In fact, many is the time I've been questioned why I instruct in a manner dissimilar to Ouspensky and Gurdjieff. Very simply, I can't. And even if I could, why would such a redundancy be fruitful?
Therefore, the whole polar union paradigm may not resonate with you. It may not be for you but for a different student... or school. Perhaps that idea can be extrapolated in order to help you understand something much different yet containing the same components?
Indeed, Yrreiht. Those are some of my favorite parts, too.
Unfortunately, book one seems to point us in the right direction, but neglects to draw us a readable map. Mouravieff's lessons are a valuable reminder, though.
I hope that books two and three elucidate just how we are supposed to unite the intellectual and emotional center, remain faithful to The Way, and ignore A Influences. Knowing that we're supposed to do a thing is fine, but knowing exactly how to do that thing, especially under difficult circumstances, is key. Of course, one teacher's methods won't be right for everyone. Still, subjective insight provides us with greater perception.
Who has something else to say about the Exoteric Cycle? Speak now! Also, I hope everyone who wishes to continue with this study group has book two, the Mesoteric Cycle, in hand (or will have soon). Read up to Chapter 2 (page 13) by 4/15/12. Happy Easter, everyone! Of which cheesecake shall you partake?
Irryd anth ahjhan,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Ipsissimus Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by patience on Apr 10, 2012 9:41:43 GMT -6
'Therefore, the whole polar union paradigm may not resonate with you. It may not be for you but for a different student... or school. Perhaps that idea can be extrapolated in order to help you understand something much different yet containing the same components?'
I think for me it is just helping me review my relationship with my husband along with my own mental banter, interactions and behaviors towards him. I was nervous that after reading this I automatically found myself doubting this 'polar opposite" piece. And now I am in a position where I am looking at my relationship and asking myself" How can I see things differently?". I most certainly still have some baggage from my/our past failings that has not served a strong union between he and I, as well as serving as a repeat roadblock in my own progress. Basically If I found better ways to communicate and share where I am in my studies and goals, I know he would be on board in helping me out in what ever way he could.
So actually it has been very helpful in moving me along in my thoughts.
'Even though conscious teachers teach the same material, no two teachers are exactly the same.' simply, a good point.
peace
Don't worry. Be happy. Make efforts.
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Post by patience on Apr 10, 2012 20:36:23 GMT -6
Can you explain this a bit more? Give us a concrete example please.
- What I meant is, when people discuss things with me indirectly, what they would like to do is help me by using stories, or scenarios that are meant to help me, but instead say things like 'my friend is going through this..." or "I hate when some of my clients do these things...", when what they really intend to do is tell me something that will directly impact me...like they don't like what I am doing, or that they know something is up. I get caught up in this idea that they want to avoid a real conversation, they want me to read between the lines, or get it. Well I often enough end up dragging things out because then I get extremely necrotic, and caught up in the 'fun' or curiosity in why things are left open. Or entire situations are created for me, which seems obvious. A simple example is how my mom approaches me to give her church another try or to turn away from various things I am interested in learning about, because in her mind she is trying to lead me away from darkness and into the light. I think I brought that statement up about getting pissy when situations are created because of that one part in the book: 'Yet new circumstances must be created in a way that effectively helps those interested to act in the direction desired' I don't want others 'controlling me out of trickery, I want to pledge myself to a cause, to a relationship and so on...and be fully aware (or as aware as possible) of what I am pledging myself to... So I feel extremely annoyed when I sense this is going on. And I start sabotaging here and there, and then I go along with them and study how it changes how they react to me, and then I sabotage again. It's ridiculously wasteful so basically I just need to find the 'right' teachers and guides that I trust. And that is very hard for me to do, trust in humans but if there is some foundation based on ideas that I find illuminating, enlightening or calling me...that helps. I don't know If I did a good enough job expressing what I mean. peace Don't worry. Be happy. Make efforts.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 11, 2012 14:58:14 GMT -6
This I understand.
Some things to remember: We cannot pledge ourselves to anything unless we are conscious. Annoyance is a sure sign that we are being mechanical. The idea that we have any direct control over our lives (before reaching Man # 5) is ridiculous, unfortunately.
When those around us try influencing our behavior, it's usually because they are trying to help, to do good in this world. Reacting negatively is only going to make the situation worse. Listen to them, don't listen to them - it makes little difference. Exerting a positive influence on yourself is what matters, and that can only be achieved through Self-Remembering.
My advice is to endure the ephemeral desires of friends, family, and co-workers with a smile. Who knows, sometimes they might even be right!
By His loathsome tentacles,
VS
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Post by wren on Apr 12, 2012 11:24:58 GMT -6
I apologize for not posting for so long. (I have no excuses. ) Finally finished the book last night. I can already see that there was a whole mountain of information my mind just glossed over and I know I'll have to read V.1 again sometime in the future. I'll get a review on Amazon sometime this weekend. I wanted to make a note of ch. XXI, 6, the linking the emotional and intellectual centers. He states that one should consult the intellectual center and the emotional center when deciding something, but how does someone "consult the emotional center"? Is it consulting the thoughts with the emotion attatched or just the emotion itself? I've also noticed how generally dead my own emotions are. Outside of negative emotions and the excitement/"happiness" at the life influences around me, its like there's nothing there for it to feel. It's just empty. I questioned myself recently why I can't be more considerate of my family, or more caring towards them, and a thought came up, "why should I?" as if it thought they didn't deserve any real emotions from me. Just reminded me that working on the emotional center is much more important than I realize. I'll get started on V. 2 ASAP. Awake!
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 12, 2012 13:28:40 GMT -6
I apologize for not posting for so long. (I have no excuses. ) Finally finished the book last night. I can already see that there was a whole mountain of information my mind just glossed over and I know I'll have to read V.1 again sometime in the future. I'll get a review on Amazon sometime this weekend. I wanted to make a note of ch. XXI, 6, the linking the emotional and intellectual centers. He states that one should consult the intellectual center and the emotional center when deciding something, but how does someone "consult the emotional center"? Is it consulting the thoughts with the emotion attatched or just the emotion itself? I've also noticed how generally dead my own emotions are. Outside of negative emotions and the excitement/"happiness" at the life influences around me, its like there's nothing there for it to feel. It's just empty. I questioned myself recently why I can't be more considerate of my family, or more caring towards them, and a thought came up, "why should I?" as if it thought they didn't deserve any real emotions from me. Just reminded me that working on the emotional center is much more important than I realize. I'll get started on V. 2 ASAP. Awake! Better late than never. Sounds like you've had a real breakthrough, wren. Exalt!
Regarding the emotional and intellectual consultation, that's a great question. I, too, wish that Mouravieff had expanded upon this aspect. We can see that it's necessary, but how exactly are we to accomplish it? Nevertheless, we must consider joining the emotional and intellectual centers.
A Cultist should see things (the world, himself, the Work, etc.) from multiple angles. Each perspective will yield a slightly different view, and this shall garner us a wider or more complete vision. See "x" through the various lenses available... or a single lens using various angles of perception. How does "x" stand up to intellectual scrutiny? What about emotional scrutiny? Are the answers the same, similar, or opposed? Remember this: the super-effort energy required to reconcile two or more opposing viewpoints can be used to Awaken!
Now is the time to re-build your emotional center. Actually, you'll want to establish a link between your emotional center and higher emotional center. This is the kind of thing which promotes evolution.
Ia Ia Cthulhu fhtagn!
VS
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Post by lokidreaming on Apr 12, 2012 20:13:27 GMT -6
My turn to apologize
(giggle giggle)
I would like to apologize for getting carried away at playing online poker which is affecting reading the book and my course work which has lead to an impasse which requires me to delay my book report until my course group project is finished.
I am will be putting in extra hours after course for the next two weeks to complete it (and to win the project competition) it is a bar launch presentation).
I am currently studying Human Resources as part of my Hospitality Management Course (managing and resolving conflict, interacting appropriately with others etc) and am finding this mirrors what I am learning via reading the book and the 82 commandments.
What I have learnt from the books has helped me to be a better student and what I have learnt from the course has made me aware how selfish I have been with my time and how I haven't put in the extra effort that I should for this group and other stuff.
Learning to not be so opinionated and delegating and having more faith in peoples abilities is a big ask for me.
Putting in the extra effort is 50/50 me wanting to win the competition and not having enough faith in my team that they will be good enough or up to my level of expertise to win it, so have taken it upon myself to do the extra hours due to one else wants to do the extra hours.
They belief that they can win, but are not putting in the extra effort to ensure we win.
Cos of this I now understand that I need to put more effort in the work that I am doing as a member of the COC and other stuff.
I know I was meant to take this course as my course life is like looking into a mirror of what I am truly am and how I am lying to myself.
Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by wren on Apr 13, 2012 11:11:53 GMT -6
Thank you, Master Venger. In V. 2, do you want us to read the author notes too or just get straight into the book?
Awake!
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