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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Apr 14, 2008 20:09:30 GMT -6
If during the time of our rule. what if a practicing mage wishes to partake in ritual sex. however there is by some situation no other magicians around. so he takes a non-member and uses them, against their will, making it rape. Would it be rape? A magician is permitted to forcefully take life, to fuel their magik, what about about ritual sex? (at this point i would like to clarify i am against rape) Also would one be pernitted sexual slaves, or slaves of any sought. I can only assume that sheople are not gifted many rights, but what if anyy are they given?
If some of these questions are legally provocative to answer, then probly best not to.
shaz'rahjeem
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 15, 2008 0:42:26 GMT -6
interesting question. i don't see a problem with talking about moral and ethical options in a theoretical future...
ordinary people who survive the Emerald Apocalypse, sleeple or whatever you want to call them, will probably either be hiding, sacrificed, or put into slavery. as far as code of conduct regarding slaves is concerned, it usually goes without saying that a master can have sex with his slaves whenever he wants.
VS
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Post by jasmine on Apr 15, 2008 12:45:40 GMT -6
"The slaves shall serve" Liber OZ A. Crowley
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Post by baphomet on Apr 15, 2008 15:08:47 GMT -6
If it's against their will, it's still rape...
Don't know how raping someone effects your sex magic. If it's psychologically traumatizing to them, which it probably will be, it might muddle with your magic results. Don't know, since I don't practice sex magic though. Still, forcing someone to do something they don't want to in a ritual context... just tends to mess with the ritual.
I'm sure there's some dark gods in mythology that wouldn't look down on rape though... it's all cultural ya know...
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Post by luxcthonis on Apr 15, 2008 18:20:59 GMT -6
If during the time of our rule. what if a practicing mage wishes to partake in ritual sex. however there is by some situation no other magicians around. so he takes a non-member and uses them, against their will, making it rape. Would it be rape? A magician is permitted to forcefully take life, to fuel their magik, what about about ritual sex? (at this point i would like to clarify i am against rape) Also would one be pernitted sexual slaves, or slaves of any sought. I can only assume that sheople are not gifted many rights, but what if anyy are they given? If some of these questions are legally provocative to answer, then probly best not to. shaz'rahjeem All I have to say to this is: "Yes."
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Post by curwen on Apr 16, 2008 13:55:45 GMT -6
I'm sure these kind of fantasies can be fun for lonely guys who are lacking in social skills and never get laid. But I'm having a hard time seeing how someone who cant get a sexual partner could organize and rule the world.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 16, 2008 14:38:37 GMT -6
wow, what a fucking downer you are, curwen! what would your namesake say?
the question of what to do in a situation of unwilling or unavailable partners for a sex magic ritual is cogent one. obviously, in this day and age rape is illegal and unacceptable.
many of us currently have sexual partners, willing ones. and for those who don't, there's a science and art to that just like anything else. attracting sexual partners is a skill. so stating that someone who doesn't have a girlfriend can't amount to anything in life (such as world domination) is like saying a guy who can't paint a realistic landscape or direct a movie or change a flat tire wouldn't be able to rule the world either. that's a fairly juvenile insult/argument, curwen.
VS
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Post by professerackley777 on Apr 16, 2008 19:05:37 GMT -6
Hmmm, according to the sources I have read if a person is not actively involved in the sex magick (as in they know whats going on) it will not be effective. Although I wouldn't say it's rape or anything.
Just my opinion
Hopefully it was helpful
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Apr 18, 2008 1:44:53 GMT -6
I agree with most, sex during ritual would be better concensual. So as not to affect the results. However if they are a slave, if they want a meal that night they'll proberly yield to their master.
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Post by dustedwings84 on Apr 18, 2008 20:45:07 GMT -6
If it is a slave you are "raping", it is not rape until you continue after he/she says the "safeword". At least that's how I would view it.
If it is a random person off the street you kidnap and pull to your chambers, it is rape.
If it's a fellow ritualist who is not consenting, it is rape.
As for if it would affect the ritual...
If you get your jollies off thinking about raping someone, it will help the ritual because it will lead you to orgasm which tends to help release energy that's essential to rituals.
If you don't usually fantasize about rape and just lost control, your energies were not in the right place and were either lost in the act or else your ritual will go awry later when the guilt sinks in.
Remember: if you do something and don't feel remorse, karma will leave you be. if you do something and you DO feel remorse, karma will kick your ass.
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Post by sin on Apr 24, 2008 13:26:29 GMT -6
Both parties involved would have to determine if its rape. If I'm the woman, and sex was forced on me against my will; if the guy was hot - hey, I might like that in which case I wouldn't consider it rape. Maybe I just needed a little spice in my sex life and just didn't know it at the time - ritual sex is often awkward.
I'm the person the sex would have been forced upon, only I can determine if its rape.
Rape is a shitty thing, especially when used as a weapon to terrorize like what is going on in Africa right now.
Rape is a traumatizing experience for both men and women.
It just depends on the nature of the rape.
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Post by sin on Apr 24, 2008 13:27:45 GMT -6
I agree with most, sex during ritual would be better concensual. So as not to affect the results. However if they are a slave, if they want a meal that night they'll proberly yield to their master. Are you talking S&M or a literal slave; imprisoned against their will.
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Post by noctus666 on May 7, 2008 19:52:05 GMT -6
Still, forcing someone to do something they don't want to in a ritual context... just tends to mess with the ritual. Oh yes. That's on Satanic Rituals by LaVey. Greets to all
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Post by docdr on May 28, 2008 4:49:58 GMT -6
Both parties involved would have to determine if its rape. If I'm the woman, and sex was forced on me against my will; if the guy was hot - hey, I might like that in which case I wouldn't consider it rape. Maybe I just needed a little spice in my sex life and just didn't know it at the time - ritual sex is often awkward. I'm the person the sex would have been forced upon, only I can determine if its rape. Rape is a shitty thing, especially when used as a weapon to terrorize like what is going on in Africa right now. Rape is a traumatizing experience for both men and women. It just depends on the nature of the rape. Hey if you ever need to spice up your sex life, call me .
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Post by swampdancer on Aug 15, 2008 6:32:02 GMT -6
generally rape is required of a few strangers in service to the old ones if the cult it degenerate enough. or perhaps its just academic and doesn't matter if she is or is not willing. who cares?
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Aug 15, 2008 19:17:30 GMT -6
I agree with most, sex during ritual would be better concensual. So as not to affect the results. However if they are a slave, if they want a meal that night they'll proberly yield to their master. Are you talking S&M or a literal slave; imprisoned against their will. Lets say the old ones rise... the emerald apocolypse etc.... we rule what we want. We generely will be far superior to most in theory. In this case we will proberly be able to take who we wanted, most people would fear us. However i wouldn't hold out for this, i doubt it would happen anytime soon.
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Post by mari66 on Aug 15, 2008 23:36:17 GMT -6
I think its a fantasy for some men to dominate a teenage slave girl into uninhibited sex.
I would love to be seduced by the God Pan in a dark forest....or ravaged by one of those werewolves from the movie "Underworld".
As long as something stays a fantasy and doesn't cross that line into reality, its worth indulging in.
I read that Alister Crowley was unable to get any results from his sex magick rituals because he used prostitutes instead of a sympathetic fellow Occultist to achieve his magickal goal.
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Post by luxcthonis on Aug 16, 2008 15:34:27 GMT -6
I don't think non consentual sex should affect ritualistic results. It doesn't really make sense to me why it should. Seems to me that a wizard could make significant use of the trauma induced by the act. That goes for any traumatic effect as well. Just a theory.
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Aug 16, 2008 19:41:08 GMT -6
Copensation for the rape would likely work, take a variable make it positive.
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Aug 17, 2008 6:49:10 GMT -6
It's only rape if their opinion matters, remember. So in an Empire of Cthulhu, I'm sure it is only Cthulhu's Children who will have valid or important opinions. The slaves, the "sleeple", are without significance and so therefor Ours to use as we will. In a theoretical future, that is
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Post by Jiggsaw on Aug 21, 2008 21:04:29 GMT -6
Rape is about dominance. I don't object to rape. I just don't see a place for it in a ritual. Ritual sex is about lust and passion. I don't think there's any need for ritual rape.
I want to add one other thought. This is inspired by what someone named "H" said, although I think I drew a different conclusion. I think for some rituals, rape might actually be more efficient than consensual sex.
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Post by sin on Aug 22, 2008 9:01:17 GMT -6
interesting question. i don't see a problem with talking about moral and ethical options in a theoretical future...
ordinary people who survive the Emerald Apocalypse, sleeple or whatever you want to call them, will probably either be hiding, sacrificed, or put into slavery. as far as code of conduct regarding slaves is concerned, it usually goes without saying that a master can have sex with his slaves whenever he wants.
VS Theoretically speaking, if you treat slaves as they have always been treated; aren't you in fact still living a sleeping existence? 'Following' past orthodoxies, vs. redefining your existence and in-turn your reality by breaking old molds? I think it makes for a more powerful and reinforced ego, to manipulate your 'slave' to 'want' to be raped, to 'want' to be part of a sex rite, and that 'need' can be used to enhance the magician's power. But hey, that's just me.
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Post by I AM the Way on Aug 22, 2008 16:15:01 GMT -6
as with most things, i think it depends on the wizard in question. what is their intent, subjective reality, perception, paradigm, and fetish? being true to one's higher self is the key to a successful magical working.
do as thou wilt!
VS
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Post by apologist on Dec 10, 2008 20:33:00 GMT -6
Rape is a base-minded, cowardly, masturbatory aspiration.
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Post by sin on Dec 12, 2008 9:04:47 GMT -6
Rape is a base-minded, cowardly, masturbatory aspiration. I believe it's about power, not necessarily cowardly. If you take another person's power away, it's about control. If you can manipulate and change a person, using rape as the vice - it's about power.
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Post by egodiabolus on Jan 3, 2009 9:06:59 GMT -6
I am definitely a fan of consensual sex, and consider rape to be the act of a person who requires the validation of their own power but, not being willing to challenge a potentially more powerful opponent, victimizes a weaker target. I find it interesting that, throughout this thread, most of the examples were of male-on-female aggression. It would seem to me that this discussion could easily, and just as likely, be about female-on-male or even female-on-female aggression. To think that rape fantasies are limited to men is a naive position. That said, I agree with the perspectives that suggest that a lack of a willing participant is never a short-coming for a successful manipulator of reality. Sex-rituals would be inhibited by an unwilling partner, but a partner could be found (or developed) who willingly engaged in "aggressive" relations to help create a primitive, sexually charged state. Finally, in reference to sexual slaves and their uses, why are you all talking about this in a future tense? This is something you can easily enjoy in the present! -Ego www.creativeodditiesstudios.com
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Post by ~Faceless~ on Feb 19, 2009 0:07:09 GMT -6
rape is rape no matter the context...imo anyway. just wanted to say that... haha its kinda funny the killing iam half half on depending on the ends... but rape just dont sit well with me. now a willing partner? its all good then.
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Feb 19, 2009 8:19:54 GMT -6
I think it makes for a more powerful and reinforced ego, to manipulate your 'slave' to 'want' to be raped, to 'want' to be part of a sex rite, and that 'need' can be used to enhance the magician's power. But hey, that's just me.
I agree.. THAT is real power, to seduce. And if the person is willing, BOTH of you can focus on the desired outcome of the ritual, enhancing the power, when in rape he/she would detract, thinking of how to get away for example. Of course you could always find someone willing to roleplay, and be willingly "raped" if it is just that agressive energy you are after..
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Post by jmsn72 on Feb 21, 2009 4:08:05 GMT -6
To each his /her own.I rather not rape at all after the Emerald Apocalypse.If I were to awaken and not wind up dead or some mind fucked slave,and were to have the mount of power with many of you (whom I admire), what use would a sleeping slave have to me?What use would sexually abusing a sleeping fool be to me?
If they survived but still have not awakened,why not just awaken them or teach them?Surely if they survived the awakening of our emerald lord,they know and have no choice but to believe no?Surely if that unspeakable eldritch horror has not awakened them by then,they are either brain dead or too mentally fried to be coherent enough to use for servants right?
Nothing against weak being dominated and slaves serving, but for the deepest and most personal reasons,I could not rape,nor watch such an act,even if it is a god raping a sleeping sheep.I try to consciously understand the reason for this,acertain who I am in this very moment and if my disgust towards such sexual misconduct is the product of sleep and disruptive I's but something tells me its not.While a clever fantasy all I's unanimously in my mind agree to one thing -rape is wrong and can not be tolerated!
Do as you will ,but be aware others may not like it.And of these useless worthless slaves only capable of uttering nonsense as their shattered bodies and minds shamble along to serve those who are gods,what of their offspring?Are we to rape them too and enslave them?Surely if they are children they have greater potential to awaken than their already gone forefathers/mothers no?Where do we draw the line or is that beyond the point of lines being drawn?
I simply ask in all seriousness because that the idea rape should be entertained ritualistically or for other reasons disgust me.And whatever is left and has not become gods...what value can they even have as servants if they are mere machines and we gods?Why not just pulverize and wipe them out?Why even keep them alive?Why not just drain all thier lifeforce and energy out and put it to something useful?
I do not attempt to disrupt the order of this cult by any means!I am simply desiring to understand the mind of this cult and where it will be headed.I have every intention to partake in awakening and the arrival of the Great Cthulhu...but something just seem errr....wrong (the rape thing specifically)
Would not raping and taking slaves make us no different than the Lesser Gods who keep men asleep in this vampiric and sadistic universe?I thought the goal was to aspire to the great potential unlocked by the Ancient Ones?Sorry for my confusion but I could not emulate the actions of that which rape and oppress us here in this world already if such forces are what I am supposed to fight!
Given that sexual enslavement happenes and people (general not m or f specifically) are prostituted and fucked in some way against their will and it does have psychological scars.Im disgusted its an idea entertained.What more are you doing but taking someone who can potentially be awakened if treated like humans and spoken to, and cutting away that possibility puthing them in a state even worse than sleep?Are you no more vile than the ones who trap us in this prison...
My apologies Venger if this is disruptive.I am responding to multiple posts of multiple people at this moment to ascertain whether this is truly the act of someone who is awakened.To each their own,its prolly messed up of me to push and prod but I truly do want to know.But since ethics are being discussed,I felt it was relevant to ask and speak from my viewpoint.Its just from reading Liber A.O. I got a more humanistic vibe but the ideas in this thread do not echo that at all.
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Post by I AM the Way on Feb 21, 2009 11:27:51 GMT -6
no one needs to rape anything or anyone. in fact, some Cultists may be happy keeping themselves completely asexual. that's fine too.
instead of rape, a more appropriate phrase might be... a power fetish stimulated by sexual dominance over another. but as i say, even that is optional. as well as any kind of ritual destruction of another human being.
you are right, it does seem paradoxical. i believe a balance must be achieved. not a tyrant nor a doormat, but the Third Side.
VS
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