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Post by sin on Apr 16, 2009 12:19:58 GMT -6
The topic of the women to men ratio came up again recently.
I was contacted via private message, and the user was curious as to why LHP theologies, specifically Satanism and the COC does not attract more women.
and I quote:
"Satanism seems to draw far fewer females than males, which I think to be due at least in part to the overwhelmingly reason-based approach involved."
This statement suggests that women are less interested in reason-based approaches vs. men. I tend to agree with him, but why is that??
I'd like to do a feature interview for the Newsletter which focuses on the existing women in the COC (as few as we are). It might give other women with a casual interest insight into the women who hold such reason-based approach - which they might identify with.
thoughts?
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Apr 16, 2009 18:13:10 GMT -6
Women within the occult in general can be fitted into three catergories IMO. 1. they are quite masculin, or rather have qualities attributed to men by the general masses. 2. they are very feminine and use it in their magick and approach to the occult 3. they have no fucing clue, and there the doh-eyed idiot who just think they have mystical powers.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 16, 2009 18:49:46 GMT -6
i think that's a great idea.
personally, i don't think such a vocation is based on reason (and how does one define a "reason-based approach" anyways?). nor do i think that men are more logical, reasoning, or emotionless than women.
VS
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Post by sin on Apr 17, 2009 13:44:33 GMT -6
Women within the occult in general can be fitted into three catergories IMO. 1. they are quite masculin, or rather have qualities attributed to men by the general masses. 2. they are very feminine and use it in their magick and approach to the occult 3. they have no fucing clue, and there the doh-eyed idiot who just think they have mystical powers. Which do you believe I fall under - out of curiosity?
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Post by sin on Apr 17, 2009 13:49:00 GMT -6
i think that's a great idea.
personally, i don't think such a vocation is based on reason (and how does one define a "reason-based approach" anyways?). nor do i think that men are more logical, reasoning, or emotionless than women.
VSI think it was the idea that much of it requires basic reasoning skills, which this person finds that most women lack. I tend to agree, in that there is a very small percentage of women that are interested in ideas which require thought, analysis, self-examination, study, etc. vs. getting their insights from E!Hollywood. Not for nothing, but the ratio of women in the occult is far fewer than men - and we out number you in terms of gender. Perhaps by interviewing women involved in the occult currently, we might gain some insight as to why there are fewer women to men. My ratio of women-male friends is 1 in 20. Think about that. Out of 20 compadres I have 1 female to 19 male. It's due to the 'quality' of most women in terms of intellect and insight. I find more intellectualism within the male gender vs. women. The dynamic of a woman's psyche seems to be riddled with complex overly emotional, petty nonsense.
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Apr 17, 2009 16:47:24 GMT -6
I would consider you in the masculin type probably, however i wouldn't consider it a stretch that you may use gender or sexuality to achieve certain goals. Its just guess work.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 17, 2009 17:12:16 GMT -6
while i understand that argument, i think intellectualism is not where the male / female part of the occult equation breaks down. if it was rationality alone, then the LHP would be riddled with mathematicians, scientists, and logicians. every day, i encounter women who are better at math than i am!
no, i think it's a mixture of anti-authoritarianism, will, and sensitivity or intuitiveness that leads people to the dark side of the occult. women are naturally more sensitive than men, most of the time, so i think it's the desire and commitment to live on the outside that is the key. mind you, this is only my opinion.
definitely think there's room for a decent-sized essay on this subject though...
VS
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Post by sin on Apr 20, 2009 11:46:22 GMT -6
while i understand that argument, i think intellectualism is not where the male / female part of the occult equation breaks down. if it was rationality alone, then the LHP would be riddled with mathematicians, scientists, and logicians. every day, i encounter women who are better at math than i am!
no, i think it's a mixture of anti-authoritarianism, will, and sensitivity or intuitiveness that leads people to the dark side of the occult. women are naturally more sensitive than men, most of the time, so i think it's the desire and commitment to live on the outside that is the key. mind you, this is only my opinion.
definitely think there's room for a decent-sized essay on this subject though...
VSThat's an interesting theory, and quite possible. I think it's a worthy article. Finding the women will be the challenge.
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Post by sin on Apr 20, 2009 11:47:02 GMT -6
I would consider you in the masculin type probably, however i wouldn't consider it a stretch that you may use gender or sexuality to achieve certain goals. Its just guess work. Pretty accurate I'd say, but then again - my persona screams this projection ;D
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 20, 2009 17:38:30 GMT -6
i know a few on myspace, which of course, is acting up at the moment so i can't send you any links to their profiles. but i'll try later. Dementia Armand is such a female LHP occultist.
VS
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Post by glade on Apr 28, 2009 7:51:00 GMT -6
I find women very intelligent. Example being our Senior member and poster who has been very enlightening. Wish we had more like her. .
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Post by sin on Apr 28, 2009 9:37:53 GMT -6
I find women very intelligent. Example being our Senior member and poster who has been very enlightening. Wish we had more like her. . Rare breed I'm afraid, no one could possibly have turned out the way I did because no one could have had my experiences. It is those experiences that shape our character and make us who we are. Not to say, that I am my story, but I have a story.
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Post by sin on Apr 29, 2009 11:39:02 GMT -6
So far, two women have agreed to be interviewed.
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Post by Sethen on Apr 29, 2009 16:56:00 GMT -6
Cora'Sahn, allthough you are a woman, you are quite active on the board. You seem to break the conventions on LHP occultism. I beleive the average woman doesn't really question reality or have as many mental"breaks" as a male would.
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Post by sin on Apr 30, 2009 6:39:18 GMT -6
Cora'Sahn, allthough you are a woman, you are quite active on the board. You seem to break the conventions on LHP occultism. I beleive the average woman doesn't really question reality or have as many mental"breaks" as a male would. And I'd liked to examine why that is. Granted, I understand I'm not your average person (I'm far from being average) but with regards to the low numbers of women involved, it really got me questioning why that is. By questioning this issue, it's also an issue of self-reflection.
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Post by glade on May 1, 2009 11:55:28 GMT -6
I'm glad that two women have agreed for an interview. I also ponder why there isn't more women getting into the cult. There's so much room for growth, learning and enlightenment.
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Post by sin on Jun 15, 2009 12:52:22 GMT -6
This kind of thing makes me sick.
Hatred? Intolerance? Misogeny?
Give me a fuckin' break.
Censorship is in full swing. You can't even explore mature subjects in playboy!
Yeah, I'd love to rape a dozen or so conservative public persona's - so what! It doesn't hurt anyone unless it's put into practice. Freedom of speech is a joke.
They are calling for people to protest and cancel their subscriptions to playboy? Book burning anyone?
I'd love to hear from other women on this issue. How do you feel about the post, and how it was handled?
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Post by I AM the Way on Jun 15, 2009 13:07:54 GMT -6
can't get what you want on your own merits? whine about how unfair everything is. that seems to be the core of American femininity.
VS
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Post by LostSoul on Jun 16, 2009 0:39:30 GMT -6
The topic of the women to men ratio came up again recently. I was contacted via private message, and the user was curious as to why LHP theologies, specifically Satanism and the COC does not attract more women. and I quote: "Satanism seems to draw far fewer females than males, which I think to be due at least in part to the overwhelmingly reason-based approach involved." This statement suggests that women are less interested in reason-based approaches vs. men. I tend to agree with him, but why is that?? I'd like to do a feature interview for the Newsletter which focuses on the existing women in the COC (as few as we are). It might give other women with a casual interest insight into the women who hold such reason-based approach - which they might identify with. thoughts? Wow, what an interesting subject...Please do write such an article. I'd be intrigued to read it. If I may toss in my two pennies... I think it's possible that our lack in higher female numbers for the forum and the CoC has more to do with the nature of agressiveness of the faith; than the darkness or anti-authoritarian attitude of this occult belief(As our high priest already stated: Women are far more attracted to that which bucks the system). Men are an agressive species; in comparison with women. We tend to act out far more violently, on the whole, than the "fairer sex". And, the Old Ones are agressive, without a doubt. So, a religion of such an agressive nature; may not be as attractive to women, as it would be to men; hence, the lower numbers for female members. It would also go far to explain why most of the Pagans I'm acquainted with are women. The Pagan spirituality has such a strong and time-honoured connection with the femine. And, take it on a grand scale; may explain the female need to be with the "bad boy". But, that's a subject for another time and another thread... What our fearless, and fearsum, leader already stated, and I agree with here: That if logic vs. emotion was the factor; I do believe we'd find far, far more women involved with the forum and the CoC, than we now do; because, I have always found women to be far more logical than men...While men easily embracing their volitale emotions. Again, just my two cents... EDIT: If you consider it; the Old Ones themselves, may be divided into the masculine and the femine... Azathoth, the blind idiot god at the "centre of the universe". Yog-Sothoth, the all-knowning & all-seeing infinte being. To even the untrained eye; it isn't hard to see which is which...
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Post by sin on Jun 16, 2009 10:33:46 GMT -6
can't get what you want on your own merits? whine about how unfair everything is. that seems to be the core of American femininity.
VS Honestly, I'm still in awe that Playboy took it down. Where the fuck is Larry Flynt! *lol* He's a Hustler, and hustled his rights. Dangerous ideas, are censored in this country - and I think that's sad. Especially when the American people support it, rather than speak out against it. The post was about hate sex, not technically rape but rape is a viable discussion to have on an adult site such as playboy! The human race continues to de-evolve. I say, let it die in the sludge.
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Post by sin on Jun 16, 2009 10:35:41 GMT -6
Finding the women will be the challenge.
So far, I've only had (1) reply to my interview questions. I'll post them here, for discussion purposes. It will give me more insight for writing the article.
Cora'Sahn interview/Victoria Vengeance
1. What are your thoughts about the percentage of women interested in the Occult? I think that it takes a strong mind to be apart of the occult, and if there are such few women it says a lot about how well they can handle things. If they can't handle it then the percentages shouldn't change. Also, the masculenity of it all kind of sets them off.
2. Do you see a trend in the number of women to men? Of course. There are very few women, I think that the nature of being a part of an occult is difficult for them to accept so they lean towards paganism or wicca.
3. What draws you personally to the occult? I have been studying many different religions for years, and before I ever found the occult I did many meditation type ordeals. Knowledge is power and it seems the occult veiws are similar to mine. Besides the fact that it is full of intellegent people.
4. At what age were you drawn to the Cthulhu mythos and/or the stories of H.P. Lovecraft? 12-ish? I always found different religions interesting and one day I was in the religion section of a bookstore and found The Necronomicon. I read it and I liked it, found a different version of it, and read it too. And proceeded to read a few other books by HP Lovecraft.
5. What do you get out of the mythos specifically? Entertainment... Doesn't really go any farther than that, really.
6. What has drew you to the Cult of Cthulhu? The people in it seem very intellegent and expressive, unlike most people who just pretend to be into a cult, real, for a lack of better explaination.
7. What personal experience would you like to share about your interractions with fellow cultists? Ehh. I'm not too much of an "interraction" kind of person.
8. How do you utilize the symbolism in your every day life? I don't purposely symbolize anything in my life, simply the practice is all that matters.
9. When asked about the Occult or Cthulhu mythos, how do you quickly explain it without going into a long dissertation on the subject? I don't explain it, if someone wants to know about it they can research it.
10. Do you have many female friends? Not particularly, however, I don't have many friends. I can't stand unintelligent, adolencent fools.
11. How do the interests of your female peers compare to your own? Well, I have never met anyone, male or female with the same kind of interests as me. Their interests are basically just what you'd think an average teenagers interests would be.
12. Do you believe your life has been enriched in anyway due to your interest in the occult and/or Cult of Cthulhu theology? If so, how? Definatley. I'm amazed at how much information everyone has, and they're willing to share and discuss topics in depth.
13. Would you recommend the COC to a female friend? Why would you recommend it? Why wouldn't you? Perhaps if they were at all similar to me, COC is very enlightening, however, most of the people I know are not even close to that level and would probably be bothersome.
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Post by I AM the Way on Jun 16, 2009 23:13:28 GMT -6
to me, that's nothing at all compared to the whole Sarah Palin and David Letterman fiasco. she should be waterboarded for accusing Letterman of abusing young women across the nation with his jokes or whatever crap she's pushing.
just more political agenda garbage for the right wing nutjobs all across these great states.
VS
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Post by glade on Jun 17, 2009 8:29:12 GMT -6
"The masculinity of it all sets them off" ? Would that mean a male dominance in the occult and not wishing to be a part of it, because of it? In my view, if more women became involved it would create a balance and that is what I'd like to see.
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Post by sin on Jun 17, 2009 10:08:40 GMT -6
to me, that's nothing at all compared to the whole Sarah Palin and David Letterman fiasco. she should be waterboarded for accusing Letterman of abusing young women across the nation with his jokes or whatever crap she's pushing.
just more political agenda garbage for the right wing nutjobs all across these great states.
VS Gawd, I know. As soon as women start screaming misogyny and women's rights - I want to slap the shit out of them. What I find most amusing, is the people who scream the loudest about equality, don't want that at all. They want a division. If you focus on gender, it will always be a focus. I find jokes about women to be funny, and mostly true. I take great pride in being a less-than-typical woman, but I identify with behaviors that make us women! Holy shit, how terrible! *lol*
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Post by sin on Jun 17, 2009 10:13:16 GMT -6
"The masculinity of it all sets them off" ? Would that mean a male dominance in the occult and not wishing to be a part of it, because of it? In my view, if more women became involved it would create a balance and that is what I'd like to see. Honestly, its dualism and it makes me ill. So does balance. It's an illusion. Both are very much illusions. Masculine somehow communicates dominance and strength? When a person perceives something as masculine, what they really do mean - male dominance and aggression vs. femininity and being passive. Women are not only aggressive, they are quite strong. Though, most women don't recognize those attributes of themselves. I've made some observations over the years, about women and the things they are attracted to. Horror, while some women do absolutely love it; the genre is more of an interest to men vs. women. Why is that? Some would say that women are naturally more nurturing vs. destructive and horror is death and destruction. Occult, these topics focus more on philosophical ideas; and women overall prefer romanticism. What makes it so? Some say its the nature of women, but why do some women hate romanticism (such as myself)?
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Post by Sarak G'hash on Jun 17, 2009 22:16:55 GMT -6
Ok, I just can't resist jumping in on this one! I think women really do have a strong will, even when they aren't aware of it. That is why, at least in my opinion, women are attracted to magic in one form or another and are usually VERY successful at it. It is their focus that sometimes needs more working on.
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Post by LostSoul on Jun 18, 2009 6:54:22 GMT -6
I'm not certain about the focus part(I think women are extraordinarily focused - particular in comparison with us guys. ); but the rest, I absolutely agree with. Like I wrote in this thread; most of the witches I know - Are women. And, very powerful to boot!
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Jun 18, 2009 7:29:39 GMT -6
'women'... oh the annoying part around the vagina
im sorry, i don't feel that way, i just like to offend.
its odd, all these issues are made so massive in the usa, womens rights, gay rights, gay union, racism, abortion etc. etc.
in australia it isn't made much of a deal over. Im sure in some circles it is, but they are pretty muffled(thank cthulhu) i think the media of usa has fuelled the issues.
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Post by glade on Jun 28, 2009 11:50:48 GMT -6
how would we approach attracking more women members?
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Post by sin on Jun 29, 2009 10:28:46 GMT -6
how would we approach attracking more women members? I think there will be a natural attraction to the cult, if there is a genuine interest in the theology and dedication to the self. One of the members in my grotto is female. (1) besides myself that is.
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