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Post by ruan7321 on Jun 24, 2007 2:48:40 GMT -6
Hi to all fellow Cultists.
I got my copy of Cthulhu Cult yesterday, and just couldn't put it down, what an awesome read.
I was wondering about something. When the Cult of Cthulhu takes over the world, they speak of implementing human sacrifice, simmilar to the old ways of the Maya.
Maybe im just too conditioned by the "christian" ways, but I really have no need to "physically" kill a person, and at the moment I don't believe I have the stomach either.
Would this be considered a weakness in the Cult, or are my talents better suited elsewhere in service of the Gods?
What are your thoughts on Human Sacrifice?
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Post by laughingdead on Jun 24, 2007 4:38:52 GMT -6
Im not a member but human sacrifice is really a christian practice more than pagan if you look at history all the millions of people that were sacrificed in countless crusades or holy wars pretty much puts human sacrifice in the christian ballpark... The mayans may have not been christian but is a good example of ignorance through blind faith they sacrificed thier people to appease the gods for good crops when all there really was was a drought brought on by natural means...
Human sacrifice will give you as much power as a delusional ego trip on acid...
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Post by I AM the Way on Jun 24, 2007 11:18:20 GMT -6
thanks for the praise and also thanks for starting this interesting thread, Ruan.
there are as many reasons for human sacrifice as there are methods of carrying it out. we live in a culture where murdering a fellow human is forbidden. however, if you lived in a radically alternate culture where murder was commonplace, then i'm sure you'd feel differently. it's all relative.
if a man was standing in front of you with an axe, trying to kill you... could you kill him instead?
a while ago, i read the Disinfo book of magick and the occult, Book of Lies. in one of the chapters it said that primitive human tribes used to sacrifice gifted children who "seemed different" who looked at the world with curiosity and intelligence... outsiders, for lack of a better term. they killed children who might one day grow up and change their world. after i read this it, of course, sickened me. but unfortunately, it also made a lot of sense. ordinary people fear the unknown. they resent the greatness of others. they are the unwitting pawns of the universe... carrying out its anti-evolution agenda.
however, we are the outsiders... those society would sacrifice now if they could. with great power comes great responsibility.
in the future, when the time is right, i believe that outsiders will be in a position to subdue ordinary people and those who threaten us must be dealt with swiftly and without mercy. we already have sorcery as a means to curtail the mindless masses. might we not eventually have the authority to physically sacrifice those WE deem unfit? something to think about...
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by ruan7321 on Jun 24, 2007 12:39:26 GMT -6
thanks for the praise and also thanks for starting this interesting thread, Ruan.
there are as many reasons for human sacrifice as there are methods of carrying it out. we live in a culture where murdering a fellow human is forbidden. however, if you lived in a radically alternate culture where murder was commonplace, then i'm sure you'd feel differently. it's all relative.
if a man was standing in front of you with an axe, trying to kill you... could you kill him instead?
a while ago, i read the Disinfo book of magick and the occult, Book of Lies. in one of the chapters it said that primitive human tribes used to sacrifice gifted children who "seemed different" who looked at the world with curiosity and intelligence... outsiders, for lack of a better term. they killed children who might one day grow up and change their world. after i read this it, of course, sickened me. but unfortunately, it also made a lot of sense. ordinary people fear the unknown. they resent the greatness of others. they are the unwitting pawns of the universe... carrying out its anti-evolution agenda.
however, we are the outsiders... those society would sacrifice now if they could. with great power comes great responsibility.
in the future, when the time is right, i believe that outsiders will be in a position to subdue ordinary people and those who threaten us must be dealt with swiftly and without mercy. we already have sorcery as a means to curtail the mindless masses. might we not eventually have the authority to physically sacrifice those WE deem unfit? something to think about...
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priestwww.CultofCthulhu.net [/b][/quote] I think that kinda anwswers my question, but makes me wonder even more. I figured that because I grew up in this time, that I am not one for murder. Also, I'd defend myself if I were threatened, no question. But I wasn't talking about murder or self defence. I just don't think I would spill blood willingly to "prove" myself worthy. The physical act of taking Life I could not handle at the moment, but somehow I have no problem throwing spells from afar. I was wondering if the Gods look more favourably on the ones with the courage to take life for the Gods?
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Post by I AM the Way on Jun 24, 2007 13:37:13 GMT -6
no, i think it's just a matter of personal preference.
VS
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Post by ruan7321 on Jun 24, 2007 15:07:36 GMT -6
Thanx for clearing that up.
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Post by sxt701 on Jun 24, 2007 16:51:58 GMT -6
their power comes from words spoken. not the shedding of blood. if they wanted someone dead, they would not depend on inefficiant human assitance.
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Post by ruan7321 on Jun 25, 2007 0:55:04 GMT -6
Yeah, I figured as much, because going on a rampage and sacrificing people is very time consuming and could end up delaying your own progress. I just ignore those who opose me. Most of them aren't even worth doing a destruction ritual for, because then I will make them a stronger influence in my life than they really are. They are but insects to me.
I like what LaVey had to say on the matter. Where Sacrifice actually has to do with the Mage Sacrificing part of himself, his time, effort, concentration, etc.
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Post by I AM the Way on Jun 25, 2007 9:20:12 GMT -6
if you're talking about the Old Ones, then i believe Their power comes from reality altered... which comes from words, thoughts, and actions.
well said.
VS
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Post by luxcthonis on Aug 15, 2007 14:33:01 GMT -6
It seems as if human understanding is akin to human confusion. Christianity did not begin the ritual of human sacrifice, nor were the human atrocities committed during the crusades comparable in any way to human sacrifice. Human sacrifice, in theory, would be used, not so much to appease the Gods, but to build up the energy required for certain procedures. You may have to modify these statements somewhat as I do not have concrete experience with ritual magic. primarily, I must agree with Venger on the majority of these points of consideration, yet I wish to elaborate further on some of his insinuations. I believe they (the scientific community) have recently discovered information to the effect that the Mayan temples were, in fact, NOT used for human sacrifice as has been so long believed. See the Atlantis Rising magazine of alternative science, etc. The stigma attached to human sacrifice, as well as death in general, seems to be a human trait which will most definetely be obliterated following the Cthonic evolutionary process. In time all will be revealed, by the subterranean light of Urilia! Luv&Lvx, -M.
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Post by ladysatanica666 on Sept 8, 2007 19:31:29 GMT -6
Well i just placed my order of the COC Bible Today on Amazon.com But on the question of Human Sacrifice, i am all for it. Although i have never killed a human before, i would not have any problem to do so. Whatever the Gods or the Ancients wants as their wish is my command. Hail Satan ! Lady Satanica Theistic Satanist
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Post by nevermore on Nov 17, 2007 22:55:24 GMT -6
If this happens during my lifetime I claim the right to execute my father personally. I have also read about what H mentioned.
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Post by Yahn'ikthorn on Dec 7, 2007 16:18:30 GMT -6
I don't think ancient people used to sacrifice people just for kicks, blood has immense power. But which sacrifice would be considered more powerful, someone you love and value or your worst enemy? The loss of an enemy doesn't sound much of a sacrifice.
Self-sacrifice seems to me the ultimate form of offering if one is pursuing self-empowerment, like Odin sacrificed his profane self to his sacred Self and learned the secret of the Runes. From Hávamál:
138
Wounded I hung on a wind-swept gallows For nine long nights, Pierced by a spear, pledged to Odhinn, Offered, myself to myself The wisest know not from whence spring The roots of that ancient rood
139
They gave me no bread, They gave me no mead, I looked down; with a loud cry I took up runes; from that tree I fell.
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Post by iconoclasm on Dec 7, 2007 18:46:44 GMT -6
The greatest human sacrifice is the sacrifice of time and effort.THough it doesnt use blood,its a sacrifice of thoughts.In terms of entities it generally means devotion to the said being.
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Post by Yahn'ikthorn on Dec 8, 2007 3:56:05 GMT -6
Yes, I would agree with that. Most of us here probably are, or at least would like to picture themselves, more useful to the Old Ones (and of course themselves) alive than dead... ;D
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Post by luxcthonis on Dec 9, 2007 22:08:56 GMT -6
Interesting Takuan, perhaps that is a question worthy of consideration....might one still be of grand use to the A:O in Death? I think it quite likely, for they (especially Cthulhu) are Gods of Death (amongst other things).
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Post by devoutbeliever666 on Dec 9, 2007 23:40:22 GMT -6
Still usefull dead (If said being has Awakened), but being alive is definatly more usefull (for everyone/thing).
Hail the Shinigami! (God of Death)
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Post by Latheeb on Dec 29, 2007 17:36:20 GMT -6
Well through personal experimentation i have discovered the powers of sacrifice, whether of life or of time/concentration/though etc., to be most powerful. When a life is taken it is my personal belief that the organism's potential energy is unleashed, the skilled necromancer (yes we get to be necromancers now) could then take this potential energy and use it, along with his energy, in order to do his bidding. Thus the mindless masses would be more like batteries than sheep, which sounds a bit like the matrix but oh well. Also since it is not the persons power that he is aware he has, being unawakened of course, but the power is capable of having, that is released.
- Latheeb
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Post by iconoclasm on Dec 29, 2007 17:50:43 GMT -6
I think your on to something,I wonder if its possible to coax a human battery to thier own end,in such a way that it can still be used as a sacrifice without getting too close (for legal reasons).I will think further on the matter but its certainly food fer thought
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Post by Rodr Evil on Jan 6, 2008 11:25:48 GMT -6
Human or animal sacrifice for me is not right, what's the point with that? is really useful? I don't think so. Anyway, the sacrifice of our enemies is other thing, that is more valid for me, for revenge and honor.
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Post by sin on Jan 23, 2008 12:47:09 GMT -6
thanks for the praise and also thanks for starting this interesting thread, Ruan.
there are as many reasons for human sacrifice as there are methods of carrying it out. we live in a culture where murdering a fellow human is forbidden. however, if you lived in a radically alternate culture where murder was commonplace, then i'm sure you'd feel differently. it's all relative.
if a man was standing in front of you with an axe, trying to kill you... could you kill him instead?
a while ago, i read the Disinfo book of magick and the occult, Book of Lies. in one of the chapters it said that primitive human tribes used to sacrifice gifted children who "seemed different" who looked at the world with curiosity and intelligence... outsiders, for lack of a better term. they killed children who might one day grow up and change their world. after i read this it, of course, sickened me. but unfortunately, it also made a lot of sense. ordinary people fear the unknown. they resent the greatness of others. they are the unwitting pawns of the universe... carrying out its anti-evolution agenda.
however, we are the outsiders... those society would sacrifice now if they could. with great power comes great responsibility.
in the future, when the time is right, i believe that outsiders will be in a position to subdue ordinary people and those who threaten us must be dealt with swiftly and without mercy. we already have sorcery as a means to curtail the mindless masses. might we not eventually have the authority to physically sacrifice those WE deem unfit? something to think about...
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priestwww.CultofCthulhu.net [/b][/quote] While I agree it is in our nature as humans to kill, I disagree in that all of these 'cultures' who have practiced ritual sacrifice died out. I can see a psychological value of 'release' persay; but only in theoretical context. I think ritual sacrifice in practical application would be the demise of the 'awakening' - my personal opinion of course.
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Post by luxcthonis on Jan 23, 2008 15:30:07 GMT -6
Interesting theory Sin. I will of course have to practice some all-out Human Sacrifice (not merely through death-magic) before i can tell you whether or not it inhibits my own awakening. That said, welcome, and good food for thought.
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Post by antaya on Jan 24, 2008 16:28:28 GMT -6
Human sacrifice is not a matter of right and wrong. I would kill. Life feeds on life. It's that simple. It's mearly a given, no ethics or morals atached at all. I find it interesting that a person who is a Satanist would be oposed to such an idea. If that is the way you all feel about it then you have set the tone. I think when you ask about weakness if you do not at some point do this you already know the answer. Till then, I love hearing what you all have to say!Here is to awakenings.If not that then may you all at least taste good:) Yes, I am also a Thiestic Satanist.
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Post by ratmage on Jan 24, 2008 18:27:20 GMT -6
thanks for the praise and also thanks for starting this interesting thread, Ruan.
there are as many reasons for human sacrifice as there are methods of carrying it out. we live in a culture where murdering a fellow human is forbidden. however, if you lived in a radically alternate culture where murder was commonplace, then i'm sure you'd feel differently. it's all relative.
if a man was standing in front of you with an axe, trying to kill you... could you kill him instead?
a while ago, i read the Disinfo book of magick and the occult, Book of Lies. in one of the chapters it said that primitive human tribes used to sacrifice gifted children who "seemed different" who looked at the world with curiosity and intelligence... outsiders, for lack of a better term. they killed children who might one day grow up and change their world. after i read this it, of course, sickened me. but unfortunately, it also made a lot of sense. ordinary people fear the unknown. they resent the greatness of others. they are the unwitting pawns of the universe... carrying out its anti-evolution agenda.
however, we are the outsiders... those society would sacrifice now if they could. with great power comes great responsibility.
in the future, when the time is right, i believe that outsiders will be in a position to subdue ordinary people and those who threaten us must be dealt with swiftly and without mercy. we already have sorcery as a means to curtail the mindless masses. might we not eventually have the authority to physically sacrifice those WE deem unfit? something to think about...
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priestwww.CultofCthulhu.net [/b][/quote] I think that kinda anwswers my question, but makes me wonder even more. I figured that because I grew up in this time, that I am not one for murder. Also, I'd defend myself if I were threatened, no question. But I wasn't talking about murder or self defence. I just don't think I would spill blood willingly to "prove" myself worthy. The physical act of taking Life I could not handle at the moment, but somehow I have no problem throwing spells from afar. I was wondering if the Gods look more favourably on the ones with the courage to take life for the Gods? [/quote]no one said you had to slit the through. "SO YOU CAN JUST HAND THAT AX OVER TO ME" LOL
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Post by ratmage on Jan 24, 2008 20:46:09 GMT -6
I think your on to something,I wonder if its possible to coax a human battery to thier own end,in such a way that it can still be used as a sacrifice without getting too close (for legal reasons).I will think further on the matter but its certainly food fer thought supposedly a band called stalaggh has been successful in causing mass suicide www.myspace.com/stalaggh if we had more bands like this we could have more free food(energy) floating around for our use
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Post by Latheeb on Jan 24, 2008 22:45:30 GMT -6
Interesting band. And yes i do believe the influence of music upon our modern society is strong and that if we used this powerful weapon we could influence the world to our whims. For todays society believes in nothing, and those whom believe in nothing will fall for anything is an old, but true, saying.
- Latheeb
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Post by sin on Jan 25, 2008 14:37:26 GMT -6
Interesting theory Sin. I will of course have to practice some all-out Human Sacrifice (not merely through death-magic) before i can tell you whether or not it inhibits my own awakening. That said, welcome, and good food for thought. Thanks. I consider and examine all things in deeper ranges than most. Even the so-called taboos :-)
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Post by ratmage on Feb 19, 2008 7:00:04 GMT -6
An interesting theory. Now the point of sacrifice is to feed an entity energy . so what if there was just a vampiric sacrifice . No killing just the removal of energy . It would be even more powerful if the person was a volunteer ,because of the self sacrifice theory . It could be done ritualistically in person or long distance . the entity still gets feed . and the sacrifice can be re used .
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Post by indigo on Feb 21, 2008 17:18:44 GMT -6
My closest freind died in a sacrifice. I don't know to who/what the sacrifice was made, but I personally suspect it was no specified. I beleive he used his death energy as a ritualistic sacrifice to awaken his mind. This could just be what I've convinced myself to beleive and perhaps there truly is no validity to it.
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Post by librabys on Feb 22, 2008 15:36:45 GMT -6
interesting post... it is a question i meditated about recently...
I suppose something in me is not comfortable with this idea and it have something to see with karma and the impression that i am one with universe and so the victim is me... it is like to kill myself ... but maditating deeper i seen this is absolutely relative and th sacrifice of myself can be a good thing, so killing to.
I suppose to kill is not a problem itself, but to do it with anger and hate may be another thing. The psycho guy killing by madness and excitment is similar to a natural or elemental blind force... if im killed it is somehow my fate... and maybe be killed is truely a way to the divine...
anyway from my limited perception, i consider i would kill only in defending other lives or mine, but i cant lie: if i'd have to do, i would maybe like it...
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