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Post by Deadly Disease on Mar 17, 2007 11:59:19 GMT -6
I read somewhere that Lovecraft was a magickian and was involved with the occult mysteries. I dont know if that is true or but i do have one question.
Was Lovecraft a Satanist? As in, did he actually serve the dark lord or atleast believe in him?
Thanks
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Post by Latheeb on Mar 17, 2007 15:21:54 GMT -6
Well according to most 'accurate' sources, no, he was a complete atheist and believed in no deity whatsoever.
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Post by darkthrone on Mar 17, 2007 15:52:48 GMT -6
Well, I just finished "Lord of A Visible World: An Autobiography In Letters". When he was a kid he dabbled in Paganism. He even set up an altar.
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Post by youma on Mar 17, 2007 19:17:36 GMT -6
According to Lovecraft himself, after parting with his christian education, he first believed in the old Arab mythology (that much older than Islam, full of djinns and Ghuls and monsters and wonders) then in greek Paganism. He then turned to northern Paganism because of his intense racial identity. This, during his childhood and teen years. His later claims of atheism are quite believable: his correspondance was heavy, he has written thousands of letters in his life, and always he defended atheism.
However, he was always a dreamer, and always fascinated with mythology. He claimed to have practiced many religions, with efforts to believe in what he was doing, in order to understand the psychological advantages of each, although a serious research in this domain would also have required a sociological study of the peoples who have created those religions, a thing which he can not have done save in the last years of his life - his views of society, race and economy showed ignorance in that field. Therefore it could be said that his efforts in understanding religions looked like a disguised spiritual quest. Lovecraft would have liked to believe, but in a true religion, something that he could prove to his naturally sceptic mind. If he did believe in something, I doubt he'd have aknowledged it even to himself, he associated supersticion with inferior races, a strong taboo hor him.
He was a man who strongly wished for a world full of magic - which he found, in a way, through his fiction. Could he sometimes convince himself to have found it? No one can tell.
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Post by JJ Burke on Apr 15, 2007 18:37:41 GMT -6
i believe hpl split his personality into compartments, and could only reconcile them in his writing. one side was the 'inner child' that was able to sincerely explore things like dreaming and imagination (and religion, for that matter), and the other side was the staunch new england gentleman atheist who flung the n-word like a frisbee. i think he had a lot of unresolved feelings about his life, and these resulted in the aspects of his personality that people nowadays tend to find distasteful.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 16, 2007 0:25:09 GMT -6
i agree. lots of unreconcilable and unresolved "I's" within HPL. those inner conflicts probably added depth to his writing.
VS
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Post by JJ Burke on Apr 17, 2007 3:43:11 GMT -6
definitely, it's clear to see such conflicts being examined, perhaps subconsciously, in the characters and plots of his stories. sometimes more greatly than the fear he intended to convey, a sense of frustration motivates his delivery.. and it strikes a similar chord in me, like there's a terrible injustice in the disparity between the power of imagination and the relative feebleness of our incarnate forms.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 17, 2007 10:12:51 GMT -6
i usually get an underlying sense of fascination and awe from Lovecraft (or Lovecraft's protagonists). you can tell that he secretly sides with the Old Ones over the failed mistake (or jest) that is mankind.
VS
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Post by youma on Apr 17, 2007 18:57:09 GMT -6
I agree. Lovecraft talked about the "fear of the unknown", but his writings showed more desire than fear. Perhaps, being educated in such a closed world by a crazy mother, he feared that "attraction to the unknown" was a sort of perversion, which he needed to camouflage through the fear, which is also natural after all. Or maybe it was just part of the same fantasy, and the perils he spoke of were like the dragon guarding the treasure.
Lovecraft was quite a character. Both to be pitied and admired, an aesthete cut from the beauty of the world for most of his life, a genius with little experience.
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Post by JJ Burke on Apr 18, 2007 11:26:29 GMT -6
fascination and desire, yes, but thwarted! the words we wrote were the jangling of his chains!
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 18, 2007 12:22:19 GMT -6
i can also see Lovecraft's frustration, a frustration born of fantastical anticipation like a child on Christmas eve. but thwarted? no! his prose is known the world over and exalted above pedestrian scifi, horror, and weirdness. if nothing else, we are the breakthrough of which Lovecraft dreamed.
Hail the Cult of Cthulhu !!!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by JJ Burke on Apr 18, 2007 13:21:28 GMT -6
indeed, his work was not without consequence.. but for him as an individual?
consider this quote from the year before his death: "I'm farther from doing what I want to do than I was 20 years ago."
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Post by Nickolaus Pacione on Apr 24, 2007 4:03:14 GMT -6
He's an Athiest, and well known for that because it takes a great deal of Atheism to create some of the supernatural deities in his own fiction.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 24, 2007 11:30:23 GMT -6
but not your standard atheist... and that's the whole point. merely pigeon-holing Lovecraft as just an atheist is a gross oversimplification in my view.
coming from that upbringing and held captive in that kind of grey, lifeless society/culture, even a natrual born Satanist would be hesitant to state there are real demonic forces at work.
i also think that atheistic thinking is born of low imagination. it takes a true believer (even an unknowing one) to come up with profound supernatural deities. especially ones that stand the test of time and create their own religious movement!
VS
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Post by JJ Burke on Apr 25, 2007 0:23:13 GMT -6
'atheist' never tells the whole story about anyone. i used to call myself an atheist until i became resentful of all the false connotations that go with the label. silly me, i took it literally, to mean 'without religion.' no reason implied, no inherent value judgment. but People won't let the term be so inert. most People in my experience seem to think the prefix 'a-' makes an atheist someone who is against religion.
eventually, some fruity phrase-coiners came up with new tags like 'secular humanist' and 'philosophical naturalist,' as if that syllabic baggage will come in handy when people ask about your religion.
i don't think religion is a factor in creativity. atheism is a purely intellectual choice.. creativity is a much wider playing field, with room for all kinds of aberrances and contradictions.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 25, 2007 11:27:00 GMT -6
i usually see the term 'atheist' as just not religious.
and even though the Cult of Cthulhu is a religion, one could also claim that it is an anti-religion. reconciling opposites is what expands consciousness...
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by youma on Apr 25, 2007 17:25:25 GMT -6
Azathoth is the atheist's god. Blind and mindless, without purpose but with immense power, that can bring fear but does not reward but by accident those who serve it... Azathoth is the highest power, but also a blind force of nature.
What is the difference between one who yearns for spiritual mysteries and one who stops in awe before the wonders of nature? Here are two infinite playing fields for the mind, I would not scorn those who pick the other path, but rather, those who think they have nothing to seek for.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 25, 2007 22:21:42 GMT -6
yes, that's interesting. Lovecraft actually made his atheism a part of the Cthulhu Mythos.
Hail Azathoth!
VS
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