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Post by Padowan on Mar 20, 2015 11:50:39 GMT -6
I just started one of the Fourth Way writings by Ouspensky. The theory of multiple I's is introduced but as a presupposition.
I'm not fully convinced of the theory. It doesn't coincide with my own self perception and believing in it could create some 'imagined' discontent. My theory of internal motivations centers on a multifaceted approach. If you can imagine a central conscious inside a prism looking at the world through different glass facets, each one a different direction of course of action.
I am not fully embracing his idea of plurality.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Mar 20, 2015 16:20:54 GMT -6
Have you ever made a decision and later didn't want to follow through?
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Post by wren on Mar 20, 2015 17:49:52 GMT -6
Or felt one way about someone and then the opposite later?
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Post by Padowan on Mar 20, 2015 19:14:10 GMT -6
Indecision does not mean multiple centres. It can just be a reconsideration after obtaining more facts. .
And changing feelings on someone? That is usually a realization they were not the person I imagined them to be. Their true selves were revealed.
Multiple 'I's is a metaphor to explain the conscious experience using the imagination. It risks the possibility of imagining a split or multiple personality. I have a strong imagination that guides me toward action. My imagination interplays with my will so strongly I can act without hesitance when I 'set my mind' to it. I have a strong willful force once I align my direction with my will and desire. I'm resistant to imagine myself with multiple 'I's because I can foresee the consequences of a confused and split state of mind.
Multifaceted explains the parts of our mind that create incongruence; will, desire, fear, hate, love, ambition, hunger, arousal, etc. Those are motivations as opposed to multiple personalities.
For instance, I may have the ambition to succeed in my business but fear to give a presentation to over a thousand people, so I reconsider my ambition. That's a case of making a decision and not following through. I can be sexually aroused by a man and after a discussion with him decide my desire has waned because he is seriously lacking in mental faculties. He was not as I imagined him to be.
I do agree with the 'False personality' concept, though, but his explanations are vague on identifying it, at least in the text I'm reading.
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Post by wren on Mar 21, 2015 19:58:25 GMT -6
I understand what you're saying. That's precisely how I used to think when I first heard the idea.
Something you'll notice if you continue reading is that the Fourth Way doesn't require your belief in it. Believe or not, it asks you to look for proof through self-observation and keeping an open mind.
I advise you to keep reading. The idea of multiple I's is a very real thing. I could advise many different experiments for you to try. Be careful of explaining everything away as you normally would however. Entertain the idea of notions that seem impossible or even stupid. What you think you know can change in an instant.
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Post by Padowan on Mar 22, 2015 8:44:53 GMT -6
Alright. I'll keep that in mind.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Mar 22, 2015 12:24:51 GMT -6
Indecision does not mean multiple centres. It can just be a reconsideration after obtaining more facts. . That would be metanoia, not observation of multiplicity. It can, if you use your imagination. Observation isn't just in the moment, but through time as well. This is how we learn about our states. To be able to have some idea of how conscious we are, we first have to have observed two states and be able to compare them. Then we can begin to say whether we are more or less conscious in the moment. It's like moving to a new area and not knowing it's climate well. You could use your imagination to say that a "hot day" is "hot" for that area, or you can observe over time and compare days to others and determine what is really a hot day for that area. Incongruence is the perfect word. Congruency, in congruency, parts negotiation and alignment are all how NLP talks about this. False personality and narcissism go hand in hand.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Mar 22, 2015 12:25:27 GMT -6
I understand what you're saying. That's precisely how I used to think when I first heard the idea. Something you'll notice if you continue reading is that the Fourth Way doesn't require your belief in it. Believe or not, it asks you to look for proof through self-observation and keeping an open mind. I advise you to keep reading. The idea of multiple I's is a very real thing. I could advise many different experiments for you to try. Be careful of explaining everything away as you normally would however. Entertain the idea of notions that seem impossible or even stupid. What you think you know can change in an instant. Kudos, you beat me to it.
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