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Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 23, 2014 22:54:26 GMT -6
So, is Oz just saying that he's not identified with the ideas and principles of the Fourth Way?
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Post by syrokal on Nov 24, 2014 3:24:41 GMT -6
It seems to be more an admittance that the foundation and concepts are all gleaned from "higher sources".
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 8:55:39 GMT -6
It seems to be more an admittance that the foundation and concepts are all gleaned from "higher sources". Yes, or (and) from a number of wise men through the ages, who established and verified again and again the system. That is called the Tradition.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 24, 2014 9:02:21 GMT -6
It seems to be more an admittance that the foundation and concepts are all gleaned from "higher sources". I originally thought that, too, along with getting the idea he was being overly pious. It could be said he's attributing the ideas to "higher powers", but not a 'god' or anyting -- it would be functions of the higher emotional and intellectual centers -- and that's like him saying "These ideas and principles were discovered with the help of a really good day and very, very strong cup of coffee." The higher centers can't be used while you're in a state of identification, and the more identified you are, the more subjective your viewpoint. For example, if he had instead been identified with a sports team and being a sports fan the ideas and principles probably would have only made it as far as what he thought would help his team win the next game.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 24, 2014 9:07:04 GMT -6
It seems to be more an admittance that the foundation and concepts are all gleaned from "higher sources". Yes, or (and) from a number of wise men through the ages, who established and verified again and again the system. That is called the Tradition.I would be inclined to agree with you, but didn't Gurdgieff originate the Fourth Way, who mentored Oz, who was already onto the same ideas before then anyway?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 10:30:17 GMT -6
Ho no, he did not. Gurdjieff learned it in his youth, somewhere in central Asia, in monasteries and esoteric schools. He's the one who brought it in Russia, and later in Europe. Ouspensky is the one who wrote the first books about him.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 24, 2014 12:47:55 GMT -6
Would you agree that G. is the originator of the Fourth Way in the same way that Gerald Gardner is the originator of Wicca? And Anton LaVey, Satanism?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 16:45:56 GMT -6
I don't know enough about the teachers of Gurdjieff, I don't know what he received and what he discovered. Himself emphasis that his knowledge is from an ancient Tradition.
May be he made a synthesis, and every master add something of his own when teaching.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 25, 2014 1:42:45 GMT -6
(Possible BiRGing Warning) I think he was like me, in that he understood that the practices of religions and other systems affected the human system in a certain way and would reverse engineer them from this perspective.
Two different practices can achieve the same change using different routes:
To heat water, you need to raise its temperature.
You can either add heat to it [tangent=which can be done in thousands of different ways from heating it in a pan in the stove to leaving it out in the sun]externally[/tangent] or get the water to [tangent=stir it really fast to generate heat from friction; add a chemical which reacts with the water and produces hear in the reaction]generate it's own heat[/tangent].
Either way, the aim remains the same -- raise the temperature of the water.
The Fourth Way is just engineering applied to people to raise their consciousness.
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Post by Padowan on Mar 21, 2015 8:48:08 GMT -6
"With a small team of comrades, Gurdjieff found and put together elements of a forgotten knowledge that reconciled the great traditional beliefs. He called it “ancient science” but did not identify its origin or those who discovered it." "This science originated in civilizations in Central Asia and Egypt, and its principles were incorporated in all the traditional religions. Gurdjieff said it could be called “esoteric Christianity,” but noted these principles were developed thousands of years before Jesus Christ. It could also be called “esoteric Buddhism,” with its origin thousands of years before Gautama Buddha."
Foreward: Gurdjieff, G. I. (2013-02-13). In Search of Being: The Fourth Way to Consciousness . . Kindle Edition.
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