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Post by wren on Jan 23, 2014 18:39:31 GMT -6
While studying the Work, we learn that Essence needs Personality to develop further. A Personality needs to be fully developed, with no side of a man lacking. To start a debate I wanted to ask my fellow cultists what a "well-rounded personality" is in their eyes. To what extend does it need to be developed? Suppose you know nothing of chemistry or fashion? Would you make it an aim to become more familiar with these?
Awake!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2014 16:31:37 GMT -6
I would say, learn and be curious of everything "good". "Good", I mean true or useful, such as chemistry in your example : A true science, that's still a good thing to know a bit about how our material universe works, even if this universe is an illusion. Fashion is frivolous, despicable, don't pollute your mind with this (can you seriously imagine a great man being concerned by fashion ?). Don't bother to what extent, take it as it come, your efforts are for the Work after what the rest will equilibrate as by magic.
Be awake !
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Post by shawnhartnell on Feb 8, 2014 6:43:18 GMT -6
What [is] a "well-rounded personality" is in [your] eyes? A functional one, but not necessarily an efficient one.
To what extent does it need to be developed? To the extent it is functional and efficient.
Suppose you know nothing of chemistry or fashion? I know very, very little about them...
Would you make it an aim to become more familiar with these? I can't answer that question without violating the prime directive.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Feb 12, 2014 4:45:17 GMT -6
I've been thinking about how I could answer your question without violating the prime directive and I've come up with a riddle. "Personality 'buffers' essence." I can say that I would study fashion because I wear a sort of uniform which is functional (allows free movement, has enough storage space, and requires no thought beyond that whatsoever.) I'm aware that people wear clothes for other reasons that I don't understand. I agree with Yrreiht that fashion may be frivolous in itself, but it's an extension of being human in some way and learning what a subject's connection is with being human has always been worth my time. I would study chemistry because I don't pick up on it easily, which means that I don't have the mental channels developed to understand it easily. I'm not able to 'think in chemistry' which means using the parts of the brain used in whatever chemistry is. Then again, I haven't looked at a chemistry book in years so it wouldn't surprise me to find that I'd developed the capacity for chemistry elsewhere and thus find it easy to understand now. Also, there's going to be a reason you chose chemistry and fashion together as examples, unless you got them from some kind of random-subject-generator. I would recommend coming up with a list of such pairs and watch the mental process you used from the time you started a new pair to the time you wrote it down on paper. art is science and science is art. The questions are: What does the art study? What does the science express? (Or, what's the art of the science and what's the science of the art?)
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Post by shawnhartnell on Feb 12, 2014 4:47:55 GMT -6
I appreciate you trying to start a discussion. We're not used to having discussions and it may take some rolfing.
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Post by I AM the Way on Feb 13, 2014 14:07:40 GMT -6
Good subject for debate. I value what Shawn and Yrreiht said.
If we think of essence as an egg, then personality is like the container which holds that egg, protecting it from being cracked. Just as regular eggs sold in grocery stores, one can expect a certain amount of hustle and bustle, turbulence, or imperfect handling which leads to accidents and broken eggs. The stronger one's container, the better protected it is. However, there's a danger of being too well insulated, too well protected. In such cases, eggs are more prisoners than valuable commodities.
A Fourth Way student would do well to find a mechanism that protects better than a standard grocery store container while not being as restrictive as some self-created contraption which shields the egg from any kind of contact or vibration... something organic. I used the words "vibration" and "organic" deliberately. If one cannot receive certain signals, the right impressions will not be properly taken in. That is dangerous from a Work perspective. We must be aware of life, of nature. Individually, we live our lives. There should be very little that is cookie-cutter about us. Eventually, all things should conform to their ideal shape.
Moving on, the minutiae of personality is not important. Yet, a personality must be in place before work on essence can begin. That personality changes as essence changes. One affects the other and vice versa.
As for a well rounded personality, being able to effectively communicate is a worthy goal. That requires empathy, understanding of those around you, as well as, our many selves. Our own esoteric preoccupations are so important to us that frequently (and I've noticed this in my own case) we forget to acknowledge the importance of fashion, chemistry, and what our next door neighbor's cat is up to. One shouldn't obsessively dwell on such things, but when others speak of them, a blank expression and wandering mind are not the best answers.
Is it possible that we can - during careless, insensitive moments - become prisoners of our own Work? Ask yourself this and consider the possibilities...
VS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Feb 15, 2014 22:48:15 GMT -6
It turns out that discovering I know next to nothing about any particular subject is enough for me to learn a little about it. Whether or not that's the 'proper way' of the Fourth Way, I have no idea. (Which means I'll eventually find out.)
I've found thinking about fashion and learning about chemistry worth my time. Both have been refreshers.
I said that I found thinking about fashion worthwhile. For one, I don't know where to study fashion but I've made an amateur study of fashion for years, so I've been remembering that study. Not in the 'french model walkway' sense but in a 'Desmond Morris' sense; which is studying people like they're another animal in their natural environment. In that way Desmond studied 'humans' not 'people'. It wasn't until I started to write this that I realized why this approach is important: it allows for observation without being identified.
Taking it from this perspective, is Punk a fashion trend or a cultural trend? Is it a collective expression of shared experience? All of the above?
With chemistry I found that yes, I can, in fact, learn chemistry very easily because I've been using a sort of amateur 'psychological chemistry' for about as long as I can remember, and thinking about it in terms of the Fourth Way instantly decoded a large chunk of it I originally thought was cryptic. I have a new perspective of the Fourth Way because of it.
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Post by I AM the Way on Feb 17, 2014 11:54:59 GMT -6
It turns out that discovering I know next to nothing about any particular subject is enough for me to learn a little about it. Whether or not that's the 'proper way' of the Fourth Way, I have no idea. (Which means I'll eventually find out.) I've found thinking about fashion and learning about chemistry worth my time. Both have been refreshers. I said that I found thinking about fashion worthwhile. For one, I don't know where to study fashion but I've made an amateur study of fashion for years, so I've been remembering that study. Not in the 'french model walkway' sense but in a 'Desmond Morris' sense; which is studying people like they're another animal in their natural environment. In that way Desmond studied 'humans' not 'people'. It wasn't until I started to write this that I realized why this approach is important: it allows for observation without being identified. Taking it from this perspective, is Punk a fashion trend or a cultural trend? Is it a collective expression of shared experience? All of the above? With chemistry I found that yes, I can, in fact, learn chemistry very easily because I've been using a sort of amateur 'psychological chemistry' for about as long as I can remember, and thinking about it in terms of the Fourth Way instantly decoded a large chunk of it I originally thought was cryptic. I have a new perspective of the Fourth Way because of it. Yes, it does allow us to observe without identifying. Although, take to the extreme, clinical detachment can also be detrimental to objective awareness - seeing human beings as no more significant as weeds in an overgrown garden. Fashion is a expression of being human; taken on a macro-scale, we can can see it as (sub)culture. The Fourth Way is chemistry of consciousness... alchemy. VS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Feb 17, 2014 18:39:29 GMT -6
Although, take to the extreme, clinical detachment can also be detrimental to objective awareness - seeing human beings as no more significant as weeds in an overgrown garden. VSYeah, and Desmond's work was self-reflective; though he studied 'humans' and not 'people', at the end of the day the whole point was that he was both.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Feb 17, 2014 18:52:00 GMT -6
Fashion is a expression of being human; taken on a macro-scale, we can can see it as (sub)culture. VSWhat's the difference between the fashion in which you unconsciously gesture and the fashion in which a tool is fashioned by different craftsmen? What's the difference between the fashion and the fashioner and the fashioned?
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Post by wren on Feb 21, 2014 2:11:54 GMT -6
I would also add that the reasons behind it are just as important. Sometimes it's not what we do but our inner relationship to it that is key.
Why does the fashioned fashion themselves? Isn't the reason part of their personality?
This morning I was getting dressed and I paused. I started paying attention to why I was picking what to wear. It was partially practicality, partially comfort, and partially what I thought was aesthetically pleasing on me.
All of these show different aspects of my personality towards a more personal fashion. It also showed me certain finer connections with this. For instance, I'm not willing to wear something impractical (such as a see through shirt) because it looks good. And I'm willing to pass up style for comfort.
I agree with needing to learn practical things such as communication. Perhaps developing personality should be done with the Work in mind, developing those parts of us that prevent us from Awakening.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Feb 24, 2014 1:56:53 GMT -6
Sometimes it's not what we do but our inner relationship to it that is key. I just thought that was worth quoting on it's own.
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Post by wren on Feb 24, 2014 16:29:57 GMT -6
Are there parts of a cultist's personality that should be developed universally? Are there traits we should all share for our benifit?
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Post by shawnhartnell on Feb 24, 2014 21:40:38 GMT -6
There's at least some correlation between the Big Five Personality traits and development along the lines of the Fourth Way : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traitsA summary of the factors of the Big Five and their constituent traits:[4] Openness to experience: (inventive/curious vs. consistent/cautious). Appreciation for art, emotion, adventure, unusual ideas, curiosity, and variety of experience. Openness reflects the degree of intellectual curiosity, creativity and a preference for novelty and variety a person has. It is also described as the extent to which a person is imaginative or independent, and depicts a personal preference for a variety of activities over a strict routine. Some disagreement remains about how to interpret the openness factor, which is sometimes called "intellect" rather than openness to experience. Conscientiousness: (efficient/organized vs. easy-going/careless). A tendency to show self-discipline, act dutifully, and aim for achievement; planned rather than spontaneous behavior; organized, and dependable. Extraversion: (outgoing/energetic vs. solitary/reserved). Energy, positive emotions, surgency, assertiveness, sociability and the tendency to seek stimulation in the company of others, and talkativeness. Agreeableness: (friendly/compassionate vs. analytical/detached). A tendency to be compassionate and cooperative rather than suspicious and antagonistic towards others. It is also a measure of one's trusting and helpful nature, and whether a person is generally well tempered or not. Neuroticism: (sensitive/nervous vs. secure/confident). The tendency to experience unpleasant emotions easily, such as anger, anxiety, depression, and vulnerability. Neuroticism also refers to the degree of emotional stability and impulse control and is sometimes referred to by its low pole, "emotional stability".
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