Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2012 9:39:17 GMT -6
I will highly appreciate feedbacks on this essay, part of last edition of the green trapezoid. I think it's an important point. _____________________
Recently I watched the movie "Memento". After an aggression the main character is suffering from a form of memory disorder: A loss of his short-term memory. It's worse than amnesia; he cannot remember anything for long, so every morning he has to reconstitute his past, using tattoos on all his body along with photos and handwritten notes in his pockets. He is a former professional inquirer, and by the use of hard facts and rigorous methodology he's making progresses, days after days, on his way to find back his aggressor. Alas, he underestimates both the tendencies of some peoples to take advantage of his handicap, and his own emotional reactions, eventually pushing him to lie to himself... The wrong results are guaranteed, aren't they? The main interest of the movie is that it highlights the relations between being and memory: Every day he has to discover who he is, what he's done and then acts accordingly.
REMEMBER WHO YOU ARE... BECAUSE WE ARE WHAT WE REMEMBER WE ARE.
One day a cultist asked me for advice. He was reading a lot about the fourth way but was always forgetting parts of the teachings. I advised him to read less, and to focus on application of the knowledge he already contained, so that it will remain a part of him and never again be forgotten.
Remember yourself, for the emerald kingdom is at hand! This is my favorite injunction at the end of a post on the Cult of Cthulhu forum. A reminder to remember yourself to be conscious, but what do you remember? That you exist, here and now, to attain gnosis, to be as conscious as possible and to remember who you are. I remember myself, first physical then emotional and intellectual, who I am, my goals, the Void everywhere.
Being conscious and remembering ourselves... What are the differences?
It is well known in psychology that others perceive you as you (unconsciously) perceive yourself, it's as if you carry a sign, written on your person. Now imagine you are going to a factory where you work, but you forgot your function there. Are you a worker, a secretary, or the director? It can be impossible to know. What will be your attitude when you arrive? Will you give orders or obey? Which work are you supposed to do? Asking the questions is a great way to exercise your memory. It will come back to you and with the feeling of a relief you're going to "your" working place.
TAKE NOTE: you were ready to have different attitudes! What you do, how you act and even what you think depends on who you remember you are!
Many questions arise about being and memory. Psychologists are dividing memory in three parts: Short term memory: i.e. what you bought yesterday at the supermarket Medium term memory: i.e. formula of water is H2O Long term memory: this one is mostly unconscious; i.e. a trauma in your past.
Are we only who we remember we are? Is long term memory part of our personality or of our essence? These questions seek answers.
Remember yourself, for the emerald kingdom is at hand!
|
|
|
Post by sin on Nov 10, 2012 10:51:02 GMT -6
I saw the film when it first came out. So I'm familiar with the themes being used for this piece.
To answer your question, No. I don't think we are, who we were yesterday can differ greatly from who or what we are today. We are constantly taking in data, and processing our experiences. It shapes what we are and what we seek to become. I think the remembering portion is key in making realizations in the moment, especially if we are seeking to overcome habits and behavior in our coding.
CS
|
|
|
Post by Timotheus Prophet of Darkness on Nov 13, 2012 11:23:32 GMT -6
I saw the film when it first came out. So I'm familiar with the themes being used for this piece.
To answer your question, No. I don't think we are, who we were yesterday can differ greatly from who or what we are today. We are constantly taking in data, and processing our experiences. It shapes what we are and what we seek to become. I think the remembering portion is key in making realizations in the moment, especially if we are seeking to overcome habits and behavior in our coding.
CSGgod thing i'm not a big tv buff therefore I control the inflowing data somewhat ;D
|
|
|
Post by sin on Nov 13, 2012 14:51:05 GMT -6
No doubt. I don't watch a lot of tv myself. I don't even have cable. I usually just pick and choose what I watch, like Tv shows and movies on Netflix. I'm constantly combing movies for lore and archetypes. I'm a big horror buff too.
Not to say all influences are negative, you can find inspiration in prolific concepts, images and writing. Seems to me, this film was a source of inspiration for Yrreiht.
CS
|
|
|
Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 15, 2012 16:57:24 GMT -6
I've continued to think about your questions and here's my current view:Are we only who we remember we are? I think that who we are only has access to what we remember.Life-memory is mechanical and acquired in life, so it's a part of our personality. After personality is absorbed by the essence, it's not so much something we have, but something we are. Since what we do intentionally is ours while what is mechanical is not, work-memory created by intentional self-observation is different from life-memory. I'm not sure, but work-memory created by intentionally observing life-memory may be how essence absorbs personality.
|
|
|
Post by patience on Nov 15, 2012 21:16:27 GMT -6
Well I don't know a ton about the fourth way because I have only read this forum, a few of the scribd.com things and a few other websites, one book had a specific chapter on it...it was on the history of occult yadda yadda...
I can say from my experience of exploring, drowning in and reliving memories of my past, actions and other people's actions that maybe going through a process of working out your past is important. In small portions. if you are learning more about yourself or trying to share something with another so they can 'understand' something they need to in order to have a relationship with you. I can see how a constant drawing back to...or reliving the past can hold a person down.
I am familiar with this: There is a lot of 'awesome' power in the idea of being born again in the christian faith that I grew up in. I saw it all the time, the power in the concept of being 'born again'. it gave some people hope to change...and some people did change behaviors...some didn't but at least it was something to jump up out of...and start focusing on being here now, new. There is a lot of room for movement and growth when a person says I am not my past.
The one thing I find kind of difficult is how we humans type people based on the past and hold others to that. I know I do it and others do it to me. It was kind of nice in the Christan church that if a person walked in a sinner but they went through a series of activities and stated their desire to be saved by Jesus that they were given a 'blank' slate by the church community so they could gain a firm foot hold of 'i am new' and not have to face the echoes of who they were... with a group that accepted them; not as their past but in the present...potential waiting to happen.
just some thoughts that came out of reading this.
I really liked the movie "Memento" it had my husband and I disusing and interacting with each other a lot while we watched it.
peace
Don't worry. Be happy. Make efforts.
|
|
|
Post by sin on Nov 16, 2012 12:43:13 GMT -6
Keep exploring Patience, internalizing all of this stuff is a way to figure out what you really think about things, and how they affect you.
Your Christian Analogy could be used to contrast and compare to those people who have served in prison. The cult tends to attract convicts because let's face it, they have a rough time out there when trying to get that 'clean slate' they were promised for serving their time.
We've had a few cultists come and go over the years that are out there getting a beating because they can't find work, and they have to wear those scarlet letters our society issues. Some back slide, and some return to the forum. The frustration grows and grows, and they get beat-down with the idea that no matter how they seem to change on the inside, the outside world will see them as nothing more than a criminal and abhorrent force in society.
I've also seen convicts use that internal change to their advantage, and affect that outside world view and prosper in spite of their past.
We do it to each other on a regular basis, but it doesn't mean we are destined to allow it to influence those internal changes we are working towards. It's all an ebb and flow. The more you attach, the more that resonates from you. Having a story is one thing, being that story is another.
CS
|
|
|
Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 25, 2012 3:51:56 GMT -6
(What's left of) my notes on memory summarized:
Accessibility:
Accessibility relates to how easily a bit of memory is activated, and therefore giving us access to it's information and / or having an effect on our thoughts and behavior.
According to the principle of accessibility, memory is more easily activated according to it's:
frequency or recency of past activation relevance to identity or goals emotional salience priming
Access-State Principle:
According to the access-state principle, the accessibility of memory is largely dependent on the state in which it is recorded / constructed / activated.
|
|
|
Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 25, 2012 4:08:00 GMT -6
I've continued to think about your questions and here's my current view:Are we only who we remember we are? I think that who we are only has access to what we remember.Life-memory is mechanical and acquired in life, so it's a part of our personality. After personality is absorbed by the essence, it's not so much something we have, but something we are. Since what we do intentionally is ours while what is mechanical is not, work-memory created by intentional self-observation is different from life-memory.
|
|
|
Post by sin on Nov 25, 2012 9:14:28 GMT -6
Good stuff Shawn.
This can directly address what 'memory' is precisely. The way I see it, it's the way we maintain information over periods of time (short/long-term).
This includes our experiences. An experience of the past, is then referred to when examining information in the present and how it will be processed in the future.
I've been discussing 'cults' with a user on youtube. He has a strong focus on revealing dangerous cults. This comes from his past experiences with a dangerous cult. When discussing cults in the present, he will refer to the information in his memory from the past.
When dealing with language and communication, he will react to the term 'cult' in similar ways that he had in the past.
'Cult' of Cthulhu would then be referenced as yet another 'dangerous' cult. This is true for many reasons, but how he processes the dangers will be reliant on the information in his memory.
Work-memory, if I'm understanding you correctly, is 'remembering' that this information from his past is stored in his memory and working to process new information with self-awareness in lieu of it.
Concepts of considering, imagining and identifying will come into play.
The memory of the past shapes personality, but personality can be overcome in an effort to tap essence. When getting to the root of what we 'are', Life-memory and Work-memory work against each other creating an inner-conflict. Do think there can be a time when we are not conflicted?
CS
|
|
|
Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 25, 2012 21:48:39 GMT -6
I've discovered a generalized position of agnosticism ala Robert Anton Wilson helps. It's much more useful than simply acknowledging the bs of perception.
Nicoll on the subject:
|
|
|
Post by sin on Nov 26, 2012 8:55:46 GMT -6
Well hell, I'm Agnostic about a lot of things. So I tend to agree with you there (that it's helpful).
I guess the trick is how to deal with that 'in the moment' situation. When I think back to my youth, I can see that I was very reactionary to a lot of things, especially in my late teens/early 20's.
I don't see that as much now, but it's not as if I don't react, it would be dishonest to say that I don't.
It's a tough racket sometimes, especially when experiences of the past try to map out the associations in your mind. It takes a few times of seeing the outcome before you make self-realizations.
Work. Work. Work.
CS
|
|
|
Post by I AM the Way on Nov 28, 2012 10:56:16 GMT -6
Yes, that... and it's also a personal collection of Work related information. Reading a 4th Way book is part of our Work-memory; so it struggling against one of our many dysfunctional habits.
How reliable or useful is our life-memory as opposed to our Work-memory? Can we access our acquired data on being or man's possible evolution or buffers whenever we want? When it's needed? Is our Work-memory expanding? Is it given priority over our life-memory? Do we trust it? Do we consider it actionable intelligence at our fingertips? Or, when the occasional Work fragment pops into our mind, is it merely relegated to the outer fringes of our consciousness - the sleep zone?
Awake!
VS
|
|
|
Post by sin on Nov 28, 2012 13:00:53 GMT -6
I'd say, that perhaps the effort of trying to store this 'useful' information is part of the Work yes, but it can also be part of life memory (i.e. I have read this book, I am working towards something, I've read a lot of books, yada yada).
Life-memory is a point of reference to work from. Otherwise you are destined to keep repeating the same behavior. If you don't even know what the behavior is, how can you work on it? I'd say it's pretty damn important.
Sure we can, but each instance will reap different results. Some things stick, while other things just get stored in life memory. I suppose it depends on how important it is to the individual to force personal evolution.
That's part of the Work isn't it? Knowing its needed and accessing it when its needed. It's pretty easy to fall back into old traps and memorized behavior. Take for example if you've forgotten yourself, It's pretty easy to sit around and watch tv eating pizza.
Only a small percentage of the population seem interested, and an even smaller portion of that work actively in expanding Working memory.
If I had a nickle for every time some person was preaching at me about how they are living like a god, while being a slave, I could buy the moon.
I work at making it a priority, even when I'm surrounded by people that seem to put life memory at a higher priority. I don't trust anything, not even myself. I'd say for the most part it's fragments and accessed when you have that 'Ooops!' moment. The majority of the time we just behave like the mechanical animals we are. I catch myself doing it all the time.
CS
|
|
|
Post by I AM the Way on Nov 29, 2012 14:30:36 GMT -6
Each aware of the other's existence, they actually function quite differently. Life-memory is subjective, conforming to the personality. Work-memory is objective (more reliable in quality and quantity), and conforms to essence. The former suited to navigating illusion, while the latter suited to navigating Greater Reality.
One cannot gain entrance to the Emerald Kingdom without a strong Work-memory.
Awake!
VS
|
|
|
Post by sin on Nov 29, 2012 20:32:41 GMT -6
I tend to agree with you however the challenge is maintaining that constant awareness of both.
CS
|
|
|
Post by shawnhartnell on Dec 7, 2012 13:01:44 GMT -6
If I had a speck of work-memory for everytime I didn't remember myself then I'd truly be a rich man.
|
|
|
Post by I AM the Way on Dec 9, 2012 13:25:10 GMT -6
If I had a speck of work-memory for everytime I didn't remember myself then I'd truly be a rich man. Indeed, for higher consciousness is more valuable than gold.
If we remember ourselves 3 times a day, then that means we are forgetful all but the times we struggled to Awaken. Reversing the ratio would be a goal worthy of Gurdjieff himself. If it were possible, think of what we could accomplish with that much super-awareness? Although, despair not, for thrice daily is adequate unto the need in the emerald eyes of our Lord!
By His loathsome tentacles,
VS
|
|
|
Post by K'zin Z'tari on Jun 4, 2013 6:55:01 GMT -6
Memento, I remember that one, you can watch it in both directions, my friend asked how he should play it and of course I said, lets watch it backwards, it was awesome and it must have taken a lot of work
Ia Ia
|
|