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Post by I AM the Way on Sept 2, 2012 16:28:37 GMT -6
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Post by sin on Sept 2, 2012 18:34:24 GMT -6
Great work, and great analogies used to mediate understanding.
Do you think respect is automatically assumed and demanded when one joins the network but doesn't necessarily apply for membership?
I ask only because it's a hot-button subject and often discussed by those on a LHP.
Exalt! CS
Otherwise, I think this is stated eloquently.
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Post by I AM the Way on Sept 2, 2012 20:20:04 GMT -6
Do you think respect is automatically assumed and demanded when one joins the network but doesn't necessarily apply for membership?
I ask only because it's a hot-button subject and often discussed by those on a LHP.
Exalt! CS
Otherwise, I think this is stated eloquently. Thanks, CS. This was one of those essays where it was so big and I went over and over and over everything so many times that I'm not even sure if what I wrote can still be considered English. Next time, I'll do a 3 parter; far less taxing.
I think people know that a certain amount of respect is appreciated and expected no matter where they are or what the situation is. Unfortunately, just because they know it, doesn't mean they give it. "We live in a society!" as George Castanza would say.
VS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Sept 2, 2012 20:50:08 GMT -6
Feedback: Currently the best thing you've written. It's both inspiring and informative.
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Sept 2, 2012 21:49:29 GMT -6
Excellent work, Lord Satanis. I found many parts of that essay that resonated with my emotional core, spoke to me personally, if you will. Extremely informative. Thank you for that.
AWAKE!
Kai'Sigth
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Post by sin on Sept 2, 2012 22:17:41 GMT -6
I can relate, when I was trying to narrow down my 'Book of SIN' axioms, I decided on a sort of outline format. Most of the unpublished essays I have follow that outline, at least how I file them for future works. I do think you covered a lot of ground in a very compressed article, so Kudos for that.
As stated, it is both refined and informative, even if you felt like you were speaking in foreign language. It was relatively clear to me.
Here's where it gets tricky for me. I know that people expect it, and feel they are entitled to it, but it doesn't mean they will get it, at least not that way. Instead, I extend courtesy and consideration so as not to get confused with levels of respect not yet earned. It may seem like a rather brass way to approach people in general, but it serves me well. People are like needy children with their demands and entitlements all the while screaming for their reparations when they feel slighted. It's enough to get completely annoyed with people, if you allow yourself to be. I used to be pretty apathetic towards people over all when I was younger. I've gotten better at it, but I learned to not get so concerned with people and their gripes. Especially if it's not having any real world effect on my life.
CS
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Post by cortwilliams on Sept 3, 2012 0:37:07 GMT -6
Excellent essay I think Lord Satanis-And one I could perhaps learn a bit from. I tend to live in my ivory tower, composing occultnik prosetry(some good, some crappy), researching Qliphothic gematria, reading literary fiction, hanging about at coffeeshops and on my facebook occult group, etc-And by and large that suits me pretty well-But in terms of grappling tooth-and-nail with consensual reality, I am perhaps a bit of a slacker. I I could probably stand to devote more energy to finding ways to challenge myself and expand my horizons.
Hail Satanis! Cort
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Post by I AM the Way on Sept 3, 2012 7:37:24 GMT -6
I believe I've found the disconnect.
There's respect as in a baseline of civility and social etiquette which keeps humans from threatening and insulting each other for no good reason, like going into a chatroom full of strangers and immediately typing, "I'm going to kill all you fucktards". And then, there's respect which holds an individual or group to a higher standard. That kind of respect can only be earned, not automatically given.
My previous post was talking about the former. I agree that the latter definition of respect is rare - but hopefully less rare among Cultists than the sleeping world outside.
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Sept 3, 2012 8:20:20 GMT -6
I understand, this is what I would call courtesy. Obviously if I want to have the same courtesies extended to my person, then behavior would dictate.
In real world situations this comes rather naturally. I'm a friendly and courteous person and often receive the same treatment in return.
I also know my fair share of people that are completely callous to everyone around them. They are rude, and insulting and only vapor flows off their tongues. In my own observations this appears to be rooted in some personal misery and attachment.
I do live a very happy life, and often write about that. I suppose people don't like to hear about happy people. I share my thoughts on how I became happier as a way to provide insights and coping tools to others that may be leading miserable lives. It's easy to fall into traps of misery by wallowing in the past. I see it all the time. People are rather attached to their memories and past events that they don't realize how it affects them in a present state of existence.
This is best represented by the axiom from my Book of SIN piece: www.scribd.com/doc/61524709/THE-BOOK-OF-SIN
IV. Be Not the Story
I was torn about the order, finally settling on making this #4. I think it's important to remember that we each have a story but we are not our stories.
In terms of respect, I try to keep in mind that what others call respect, I call courtesy. In other words, I know what you mean about civility and causes for social discourse.
In an Internet environment it seems to be quite different and as more and more people spend time on social networking platforms, I write about some of the issues they will face and why for awareness.
Case in point, people have their reasons for treating people the way they do on the Internet, and some of it is just entertainment and some of it I consider using the Internet as a personal therapy. I covered it on my podcast.
Some people find it entertaining and a way to vent their frustrations about their lives by toying with people and treating them cruelly even if it was unsolicited. To include stalking them and harassing them. It has more to do with the person allowing it to occur, rather than the person doing it but at least it offers some possible reasons why they do it.
There is a different set of social ethics applied in this environment because people seem to have the safety of anonymity or distance to protect them from ever facing the person they are speaking with.
Notions of 'respect' also differ but can run parallel with real world notions of respect, courtesy and consideration.
CS
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Post by sol on Sept 3, 2012 10:13:18 GMT -6
I want to see you preach this out loud. It is too long of a read but I could sit and hear it dictated.
Hell I would love to know how long it would take you to speak it.
It is very good. You are getting incredible with presentation of written word, I have to say watching your videos I feel cut off from you, I suppose my level of interaction has much to do with it. But maybe if you were recorded dictating to someone else instead of alone speaking directly to the camera more of your presence and passion would pour through the lense and into my room.
Taxing is the word I would give yes. Will take me days to get through it with solid unbroken attention. Life is full of distractions. But I am very interested. Thank you for sharing it with me. I read through some of what CS said and I have a short reply:
As a passerby level of cultist I require no recognition. I hardly express any Cthonic presence in my day to day reality, I practice no ritual thus require no status. I am here because I know how it feels to yearn to see and act beyond the limits placed around us. Getting into that new head space with intent, it reminds me and impacts me knowing such forces are present alive and growing stronger... As I watch so many fall into the dense fail of normal oblivion... Every time someone cuts me off, or fights over nothing... every time i see garbage tossed on the ground things left half assed inwardly I rage. What can I do but hope for beings more wise, less child-like in the way they respect this one world we currently reside upon?
Bah, not too short a reply. I feel your pain, dealing with those that clamor for recognition, you will get no such pander from me
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Post by sin on Sept 3, 2012 12:36:29 GMT -6
That's what I mean when I speak about working at it. It's easy to get angry, and become enraged at the apathetic populace that offer me nothing but their vapor and it stinks. I have to work on this for my own sanity, or else become a bitter unhappy person. As Venger so eloquently stated in his piece, you can't change the nature of people, but you do hold the power to make changes in yourself. Especially with regard to our nature for mechanical reactions and compulsions.
I do use a bit of my power to disrupt the nature of people in groups. Some of it is out of personal drive and some of it is a way to stop a movement in its tracks. Especially if that movement is being given momentum by zombies who just co-sign whatever because they think it will gain them some sort of favor. Some movements are dangerous and will eventually come my way. I say to myself: "Not if I can help it..." Then I act accordingly.
You have to pick your battles and be wise enough to know which are counter-productive or rooted in counter-productive pride.
You raise your levels of awareness and being and can then self-destruct if you run off into oblivion wearing your super-hero cape.
I'm sure it's taxing for Venger to be viewed in a certain way and be expected to behave in a specific manner because some view him as some hero archetype. Even Superman had to put his hand up and say ENOUGH!
CS
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Post by Ankor on Sept 3, 2012 19:00:06 GMT -6
Excellent writing. In particular, the bit about failure struck a chord.
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Post by mattsaturn on Sept 4, 2012 0:41:17 GMT -6
Well Venger, my usual bitching is that your writing is completely unsystemic, but there were enough good ideas in here that I don't care, and I guess I've just gotten used to the fact that such is how you write.
The whole bit about emeralds and esotericism really reminds me of the constant struggle in educational institutions to maintain the Humanities budget. People say there is no practical use for things like philosophy or history. They superfund the sciences because the sciences can be turned into immediate profit through various kinds of engineering. What people have to constantly be reminded of is, practical science is worthless if you don't know why you're alive, or if your society is shitty. It's true -- being an authentic human being with philosophical and social awareness is completely uninteresting/unprofitable for business, and it can be especially disruptive for the status quo if true thinkers become prevalent instead of exceptional. But at the bottom line, it's really all there is, nothing else matters, everything else must be placed in the service of the Why, not the other way around.
I mainly liked parts 11, 12, 13, 15, 16. Of course such is to be expected from me, I think I'm always more turned on by the Nietzschean self-construction than the spacey subjectivism.
I *really* valued parts 11-13, because rather than simply urging people to evolve and improve, it actually gave concrete advice on a technique which they can use for doing so. This is the kind of thing I have always hoped to glean from your writings; sometimes you put it in there and sometimes you don't.
As far as Special Projects/Plans, that's awesome. I would caution not to wait until you or someone else has deemed you "Man 5." Personally I have found actually getting down to business and doing what I am passionate about to be one of the best ways to gain greater introspective wisdom and strength of character. So rather than, become a sage and then act on it, perhaps dive into action in order to become a sage.
I'm not sure about the internal Plan, but I think it involves purging myself of all indulgence in distractions. My own Project(s) have been very uplifting lately! First, I am taking classes toward a degree in biotechnology. This is a much more economically sound choice over being a history professor (see ranting about Science vs Humanities above). It's also in tune with my first childhood career dream, of being a genetic engineer who seriously enhances humanity's ability to manipulate flesh itself. Second, I have been doing the hard work of preparing myself to be a socialist street speaker in a major city. While I have a pretty thorough socialist education and am prepared for almost any topic or argument, what I think will really make people stop/stare/gather is a concrete, very statistical description of how the working majority is still hurting badly from the recession. I've been doing the heavy lifting of gathering meticulous volumes of data, though it's all very compelling and cutting when you actually hear it, to the point of having 17 bullet-pointed pages ready for my own reference. I think I am about half-done or 2/3-done my research. I have to commute to the city for a bio class so I will use that as my means of getting to my planned speaking spots. I'm going to give it my first try within the next two weeks. I think I will do fine, I've had a lot of practice speaking and dealing with the public, and my research is solid. But do wish me luck! Send me your vicious prayers and blackest magicks!
(On that note, I agree with Sol that I would love to see you saying this stuff on a street corner in addition to the Internet! If you do, get someone to tape it and YouTube that shit.)
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Post by mattsaturn on Sept 4, 2012 0:59:34 GMT -6
Also, forgot to say. If you want the Cult to have notable figures, you should totally persuade someone to become a boxer! Boxers are awesome, there's a lot of willpower involved in training obviously. The Nation of Islam sort of had a boxing icon indirectly promoting them in the form of Cassius Clay-turned-Muhammad Ali. How about Cthulhuist pugilist?
(I want to get into boxing, but I'm kind of not entirely a Cultist and also busy with biotech and street speaking. But if I do get into it, I'll make sure to rep the LHP.)
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Sept 4, 2012 10:10:11 GMT -6
That's what I mean when I speak about working at it. It's easy to get angry, and become enraged at the apathetic populace that offer me nothing but their vapor and it stinks. I have to work on this for my own sanity, or else become a bitter unhappy person. As Venger so eloquently stated in his piece, you can't change the nature of people, but you do hold the power to make changes in yourself. Especially with regard to our nature for mechanical reactions and compulsions.
I do use a bit of my power to disrupt the nature of people in groups. Some of it is out of personal drive and some of it is a way to stop a movement in its tracks. Especially if that movement is being given momentum by zombies who just co-sign whatever because they think it will gain them some sort of favor. Some movements are dangerous and will eventually come my way. I say to myself: "Not if I can help it..." Then I act accordingly.
You have to pick your battles and be wise enough to know which are counter-productive or rooted in counter-productive pride.
You raise your levels of awareness and being and can then self-destruct if you run off into oblivion wearing your super-hero cape.
I'm sure it's taxing for Venger to be viewed in a certain way and be expected to behave in a specific manner because some view him as some hero archetype. Even Superman had to put his hand up and say ENOUGH!
CSI'm often quick to anger when it comes to the mindlessness of others, those that nary think about anything else beyond their own selfish desires, and those that practice willful ignorance. I admit, it's made me quite the miserable person in the past. The world is full of idiocy and people rarely question anything at all, swallowing whatever is given to them. There's no shortage of tinder to fuel my fire. However, since I've begun an understanding with the Work I find that I am more interested in what I feel, how I react, my own inner world and the reason of it's being. When I get angry I actually focus more on my feelings and why they are the way they are. I try to dissect the emotional reaction I am having, what caused it, what reasons I have for feeling this way, etc. It actually helps me refrain from the trigger reactions I've been apt to exhibit in the past. Now, of course, it doesn't always end up that way. There are times that I fall back into slumber, if you will, and carry on with the ever so mechanical process that I am imprisoned to. I do usually mull over the situation in hindsight though, trying then to examine my emotions, actions, etc. I have begun to pick my battles, as you said Priestess Cora'Sahn. Some situations are not worth the energy and time to combat. What Lord Satanis said about not being able to change the nature of others but holding power to change yourself, is about as true as it gets. That quote, that gem of philosophy, will definitely stick with me as much as "Belief is Reality" has. The Cult of Cthulhu shall never die! Kai'Sigth
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Sept 4, 2012 10:17:10 GMT -6
Second, I have been doing the hard work of preparing myself to be a socialist street speaker in a major city. While I have a pretty thorough socialist education and am prepared for almost any topic or argument, what I think will really make people stop/stare/gather is a concrete, very statistical description of how the working majority is still hurting badly from the recession. I've been doing the heavy lifting of gathering meticulous volumes of data, though it's all very compelling and cutting when you actually hear it, to the point of having 17 bullet-pointed pages ready for my own reference. I think I am about half-done or 2/3-done my research. I have to commute to the city for a bio class so I will use that as my means of getting to my planned speaking spots. I'm going to give it my first try within the next two weeks. I think I will do fine, I've had a lot of practice speaking and dealing with the public, and my research is solid. But do wish me luck! Send me your vicious prayers and blackest magicks! (On that note, I agree with Sol that I would love to see you saying this stuff on a street corner in addition to the Internet! If you do, get someone to tape it and YouTube that shit.) I wish you the very best of luck when it comes to your street speaking endeavors. It's no easy task and I commend you for it. I share many socialist ideals within my own political ideology, though I primarily identify as an Anarchist. Let us know how it goes! Awake! Kai'Sigth
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Post by I AM the Way on Sept 4, 2012 10:50:49 GMT -6
It's great to hear such amazing feedback. Thanks, everyone! Let the discussion continue to flow...
Yes, I wish you luck in all your endeavors, Matt. Your current path sounds intriguing. I'm glad to hear that some of my points triggered your e-applause. In all honesty, sometimes I wondered how posting all those strung-together words could possibly help anyone at all.
Just a few moments ago, I imagined Nietzsche, myself, and a kind of Nietzsche/Satanis collage. The way he wrote was not necessarily his style of speech. He had an internal fire which might have been directly opposed to his external demeanor. In fact, if he (or I) were to address a multitude this morning, I imagine, morbidly, that the gist would be to give up, stop struggling so much, and make thy way to the nearest euthanasia cubicle.
If there's an occasional theme running through a few of these mini-essays, it's that life is hard, success is even more difficult, and I am thoroughly exhausted by any preconceived expectations of glorious triumph I might have once held. Of course, it's not all gloom and doom. My life is much better than most, and I have plenty of good days. Nevertheless, I know what it feels like to fail, to make super-efforts with precious little to show for it.
How many times did Nietzsche just want to give it all up? Probably thousands. But he never gave up entirely, nor shall I. Hopefully, this downbeat addendum is merely the threshold for magnificent things yet to come.
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Sept 4, 2012 11:03:03 GMT -6
There's something to be said about the unique writing style about each writer. Once you grow accustomed to their style, you are receiving information in a unique way. It's not much different than say Gurdjieff, Po, or HP Lovecraft himself. That weirdness is what keeps the reader coming back for more. Even if it's to vent their frustrations about what you do to their minds with the way you write.
I know I abuse punctuation but believe it or not some of it is purposeful and other times I just like the dramatic effect of smacking you with a seemingly unneeded comma and pause.
I enjoy watching the evolution of writers but especially their thoughts. I've seen many changes in Venger himself over the years which I find completely fascinating. I often wonder how much of that in myself comes through in my own writing. Something to aspire towards...
CS
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2012 8:33:16 GMT -6
Excellent work, Lord Satanis. I found many parts of that essay that resonated with my emotional core, spoke to me personally, if you will. Extremely informative. Thank you for that. AWAKE! Kai'Sigth I could say the same. At every new essay I want to say hey, it's the best .
Yeah, this essay is a great summarization of the Cult of Cthulhu, his past, present and future. This is an "instructions for use", an operating manual for your life and soul !
Very important, XII. Shadow Synchronicity. Be aware of it : Forces are fighting you ! The universe will do all what it can to prevent one to awake. But let's emphasize that the worst is within ourselves : We are programmed to hate the changes, we have to recognize this fact, and to alter this before engaging the fight.
"It’s what the strongest individuals have to go through in order to manifest their will. Unwittingly, the universe does humanity a favor – it makes the strong even stronger." One can meditate on the fate of Frodon and Sam in "The Lord of the rings" (The movie is good but read the book which is a masterpiece among masterpieces, BTW. I'm thinking to the book when writing this). How much stronger, nobler, greater are the hobbits at the end of their quest ! Organizing the revolt and defeating Saroumane's men is just too easy for them when they are back in the Shire (only in the book, I warned you).
XIII. Main Lifts : very useful. Find something !
NOW is the moment of Awakening.
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Post by I AM the Way on Sept 5, 2012 11:39:16 GMT -6
Thanks for the feedback, brother. Much appreciated! A lot of the Special Projects/Plans material came out of our p.m. discussion last month. In time, I'm sure I'll expand on it. Let me know how your struggles go.
www.cultofcthulhu.net/2011/04/im-forming-my-own-middle-path/
About 3/4 of the way down, Dark Fool talks about the exact same thing. Too bad the guy seems to have embraced the douche side of the force, these days.
Awake!
VS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Sept 5, 2012 11:43:09 GMT -6
douche side of the force (noun) , Coined by Venger Satanis Sept 5th 2012.
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Post by sin on Sept 5, 2012 12:13:58 GMT -6
These days? He's always been a foolish man, and a douche. This is why it was rather easy for him to both project and imagine that you were doing something Sinister by paying his ideas lipservice on a blog/video.
For a guy on a supposed 'Middle Path', he was among those who jumped in the band-wagon to flame Venger for his daughter's Baptism.
He's just another one of these pseudo-intellectuals who talk a lot of shit, but follow through with zero action.
The idea that the Christ is on a LHP is certainly viable, and demonstrable by the actions spoken about in NT.
CS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Sept 5, 2012 12:23:24 GMT -6
I've only talked to DF once, and the person I talked to was completely different than then one in the video. There's more than one side to DF... and now this thread is off topic.
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Post by sin on Sept 5, 2012 13:29:44 GMT -6
I've only talked to DF once, and the person I talked to was completely different than then one in the video. There's more than one side to DF... and now this thread is off topic.
Not necessarily. It's about the I's and projection, imagining and walking the path, not just talking about it.
CS
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Post by lokidreaming on Sept 5, 2012 21:23:59 GMT -6
There's something to be said about the unique writing style about each writer. Once you grow accustomed to their style, you are receiving information in a unique way. It's not much different than say Gurdjieff, Po, or HP Lovecraft himself. That weirdness is what keeps the reader coming back for more. Even if it's to vent their frustrations about what you do to their minds with the way you write.
I know I abuse punctuation but believe it or not some of it is purposeful and other times I just like the dramatic effect of smacking you with a seemingly unneeded comma and pause.
I enjoy watching the evolution of writers but especially their thoughts. I've seen many changes in Venger himself over the years which I find completely fascinating. I often wonder how much of that in myself comes through in my own writing. Something to aspire towards...
CSTotally agree and creative writing is one aspect of what COC so unique and special. Sometimes I liken to the writing process to achieving a brief moment of awakeness/consciousness and a way to help/aide me in remembering myself.
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Post by lokidreaming on Sept 5, 2012 21:33:30 GMT -6
re: DF
What would you do if he or others like him who have departed ways from the COC one days turns round and ask for your (VS &CS) forgiveness and understanding?
LD
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Post by sin on Sept 6, 2012 8:27:31 GMT -6
I think this has more to do with personal ethics vs. civic duty. As noted in my own moral paradigm, all men can be redeemed by their actions. Doesn't matter who or what they are. They could even be a serial killer or a child molester. Talk is cheap, I'm a woman of action.
If this man turned himself around, that would be reliant on his behavior not the words spoken. Asking for forgiveness is an action taken, but just because the words have been spoken doesn't mean the actions follow.
So to answer your question, show me the actions and then I'd decide accordingly how I would deal with it.
CS
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Post by I AM the Way on Sept 6, 2012 11:05:17 GMT -6
re: DF What would you do if he or others like him who have departed ways from the COC one days turns round and ask for your (VS &CS) forgiveness and understanding? LD If someone truly had a change of heart, then I would forgive.
Back when the interview was conducted with DF, he was a pretty reasonable, open-minded guy. Not sure what changed shortly after that, but it seemed like a 180. Now, he's mired in Venger envy or whatever.
Anyways, yeah future posters should feel free to get back to the topic at hand. Though I say so myself, I think there's a few great sentences in JiTaLO. Wouldn't surprise me to see it quoted years down the road.
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Sept 6, 2012 11:13:56 GMT -6
It's an interesting analysis in lieu of what is or isn't in context. All information is worthy of examination, but with a critical mindset.
Some ideas are often pushing you to the edge, placing you at the Event Horizon. If you step back and say "Whoah, that's a place I dare not go.."
It's even more curious when sublimating context.
CS
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Post by sin on Sept 6, 2012 11:18:12 GMT -6
Inquiry: Are YOU your ideas?
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