Neuro-Linguisitc Programming

[I AM the Way]

Neuro-linguistic programming (NLP) is a set of techniques, axioms and beliefs that adherents use primarily as an approach to personal development. NLP was influenced by the ideas of the New Age era as well as beliefs in human potential. The initial ideas of NLP were developed around 1973 by Richard Bandler, a student, and John Grinder, a professor of linguistics, in association with the social scientist Gregory Bateson. The term "Neuro-linguistic programming" denotes a set of models and principles meant to explore how mind and neurology (neuro), language patterns (linguistic), and the organization of human perception and cognition into systemic patterns (programming) interact to create subjective reality and human behaviors.

Based upon language patterns and body language cues derived from the observation of several world-renowned therapists, NLP focused on areas such as how subjective reality drives beliefs, perceptions and behaviors, and therefore how behavior change, transforming beliefs, and treatment of traumas is often possible through appropriate techniques based upon how known experts worked with this relationship. The techniques distilled from these observations were metaphorically described by the original developers as "therapeutic magic," with NLP itself described as 'the study of the structure of subjective experience". They are predicated upon the principle that all behaviors (whether excellent or dysfunctional) are not random, but have a practically determinable structure NLP has been applied to a number of fields such as sales, psychotherapy, communication, education, coaching, sport, business management, interpersonal relationships, as well as less mainstream areas such as seduction and spirituality.

Due in part to its open-ended philosophy, NLP is controversial. It is at times criticized in the scientific community as unproven or pseudoscientific, and amongst those who watch for fraud, for exaggerated claims and unethical approaches by a number of practitioners. There is also some dispute among its developers and proponents regarding what NLP is and is not.

from Wikipedia.

i first read about NLP in Tony Robbins' book, Awakening the Giant Within. i have used these techniques to good effect in my own life and think they are valuable to the magician.

experiences, comments, questions...?


Venger Satanis
Cult of Cthulhu High Priest

www.CultofCthulhu.net

[Leafsong]

I find NLP fascinating,and I've watched friends use it to great personal benefit. I wanna rant more about, but I'm at work, however, and before I forget: NVC (Non-violent Communication) is a hybrid of social exchange exercises that promote paying careful attention to word use and body language. www.cnvc.com (or maybe it's .org or .net?)

[baphomet]

Speaking of words and dealing with subjective experiences, I've found one of the biggest pitfalls many of us faced is making our own situations worse than they seem to be by using the wrong words to think about the situation.

Next time you're in a hard spot in life, I find it helps to write. If you write about your situation, and read it over again, but more objectively, you'll start to see things aren't as bad as you're making them out to be. This technique works for me, and I'm even suprised sometimes to go back and laugh at myself thinking "I was actually worried about that?!?!"

Anyways, as far as linguistics go, I'm thinking it might be possible to simply narrate things in your head as a method of calming yourself down, rather than have to write them down.

Usually when I narrate things, or at least see them from a non-me perspective, I realize that I get upset over the stupidest most trivial things. Letting those things get me upset is definitely not good for any practicing magician, as you're basically letting others control you.

Think about it... how often do you let other people make you angry? You don't have to be a happy-go-lucky nice guy, but if you're someone who's always pissed off at people, you probably need to work on your emotional control...

So that's my input.

Does anyone have any simple NLP techniques or methods?

[I AM the Way]

that is pretty god damned brilliant, baphomet.

yes, writing seems like it would definitely help. every magician should be writing in a journal anyways, so writing down thoughts... sort of a 'consciousness map' would help in self observation too.

i have experienced such a thing as well; reading about something that troubled me years ago. it was strange to see my early self worrying about such nonsense.

perhaps we can even do one better! why not talk to ourselves? people might find it strange to hear you speaking to yourself, but people do the same thing in therapy... it's just that you won't need to pay for a therapist to hear it.

also, when words are actually spoken, they manifest in the world. they are an attempt for our consciousness to connect with "reality". we describe the world and the world, put into words, colors our perspectives. so in essence, every word or phrase is a sort of spell. that's why the Malevolent Meditiations in the SoDOS should be spoken aloud. it further imprints the meaning of the words upon the mage and his subjective reality.


Venger Satanis
Cult of Cthulhu High Priest

www.CultofCthulhu.net

[jameson]

I can understand now why cussing (the famous four letter words for undesired situations) have the potential to worsen a negative situation.

It may or may not relate but I find talking to oneself can help create a voice of detachment, a voice of reason if done correctly or a devil on the shoulder if done incorrectly.This eventually leads to a voice who's dialogue does not reflect the mage's own thoughts at the moment.This voice reminds me heavily of the ideas of the HGA or HGD (whichever term you like best) and posseses the potential to aid the operator.Whether you view this voice as internal or external, this voice of reason can be evocked by the simple act of talking to yourself.

[I AM the Way]

indeed, jameson. i agree.


VS

[Yahn'ikthorn]

I must read more about this since it seems I've been inflicting myself some conscious NLP within the last few years even though I've not known the term...

[dzepxich]

NLP is being used in the advertising world all the time. "Used cars" aren't anymore, now they're "pre-owned". "Gambling" is a loaded word, so it has been replaced with "Gaming". Who can object to games? Just fun, right?

Every single second of TV costs hundreds of dollars, & every word & image is carefully evaluated. The psychological techniques being used on the populace are extremely advanced and effective. Advertising firms have paid many thousands of dollars for psychological testing to discover the most effective ways to achieve thier behavior modification goals. The word used to describe something has a profound effect, & repetition plays a strong role also.

[Yahn'ikthorn]

And that's why television sets should be thrown to the trashcan and most aspects of modern mainstream culture ignored completely. These are just examples. Be careful when exposing yourself to any kind of outside influence.

It seems that I have neglected my duties as Minister of Propaganda because I should know everything about brainwashing yet I was unaware of this term. ;D

[punkritualtheatre]

I'm interested in developing my own style which I call Neuro Linguistic Toxicology.

Strictly speaking it's a martial art for use against unwanted persuasion etc. but it's main applications are for healing, or liberating.

I think that NLP has taken 'positive thinking' to a level that looks like pathological denial, and it doesn't seem to offer any fixes for problems that I want to deal with, so I'm in the process of recycling it's principles and methods into something that looks at the negative and then deals with it.

I look at an element called 'abuse' which means any treatment which damages a person's connection with the world.
An ecological form of defence might involve looking at an increase of toxic effects like child asthma or leukemia and then tracing the toxins to their source like a detective.

Neuro Linguistic Toxicology works a bit like that, but rather than looking for toxins, it looks for (stuff that it's hard to find words for) in the mind's different levels of needs and flows of logics.

With a simple example;
a friend of mine is stupid enough to spend time with an abuser who breaks people's patterns and forces a leading rapport with the following method;

He will say or more usualy blurt something with such bad social skills that it makes people cringe. - pattern break.

He will then immediately stare at the target and laugh manicaly as loud as a road drill. - enforced prolonged pattern break. Everyone has to drop every thread of conversational thoughts or graceful ways or habits of whatever they were going to do.

He will continue to stare at the target laughing loudly and unpleasantly untill they humour him by laughing as well because he won't stop otherwise.

This means that he has effectively gained a "leading rapport" with the effect of breaking healthy patterns and making people follow him instead. They are more confused and more suggestable.

This method has been used by abusers from the Catholic church, presumably because (with laughter being very simmilar to crying) it will still work on children if the abuser is making them cry.

So she goes away with tunnel vision, rambling speech patterns, bursts of extreme irritation, etc. etc. and sometimes I'm the poor bastard who has to pick up the pieces.

This particular strange creature likes it when I make her convulse by tapping her nerve points, so allready I have a delivery system for overwhelming the 'leading rapport' with a stronger one.
All I have to do is immitate the various squeaks and gasps etc. that she makes, and do them before doing the little energy strikes which cause them. and weather she likes it or not, She's following me.
The responses are *completely* involuntary, so the effect goes deeper than the abusive conditioning.

It's done in a way so that she's laughing because she wants to laugh, fighting back whilst I'm doing it, and encouraging me to go to points which she's in the mood for at the time, so it puts her in an empowered and interacting state whilst it's hijacking her away from the previous hijacker.

It's not perfect, because I have to be careful not to make any limiting subliminals for a while, but it's better than nothing.

The way I study NLP at the moment is as follows;

I listen to a bit of an audio presentation, there's a lot of it around.
I take note of any thing that strikes me as interesting and read about it.

Then I make a dozen or more subliminals / audio sigils of my own intended to give me a deeper understanding of the proceses involved and a more / liberating / healing / enlightening / responsible / etc. use of it and play them on loops whilst I replay it.

So far, the results have been encouraging.

So I'll say that magicians should know about NLP even if it's just to defend against it, but we should recognise it as a lesser magic which is in it's infancy.

It's better to develop a style that out grows it rather than to follow it.

[iconoclasm]

I have a dilemma and would like to know if NLP can help.Though I have a valid disgust toward adhering to structure,I still am not entirely liberated from structure.The prime example is society's laws and rules.

I have no hatred for humans,I do however have a desire to inflict grievous harm upon one for the simple reason that it will feel liberating.I desire to ultimately look back at the laws of society and my FEAR of the consequences of breaking such law.The ultimate liberation is free from fear.

The problem is not a shortage of targets,on the contrary ,there are numerous people of lesser intellects whom would gladly fight me for no reason.It is an uneasiness that comes not from the initial strike,but from not having enough reason to strike.The mind is overly reliant on having a reason before initiating an action.When there is a valid reason for something such as studying,the mind fails to deliver.

If such is the case we are stuck in a loop or circular logic that has very limiting implications.

I don't have to walk outside and hit a person in the face to express my freedom (though my violent demons desire their urges to be satisfied every once).Matter of fact,making sexual advances on a woman or the idea gives me greater fear.Speaking to them I can only do from a shielded perspective,much like I would speak to family,Friends and even you folks.The limitation is an inability to find a reason in which would allow me to act.Sex makes me feel like an alien as does initiating an act of violence.

How can I deal with this?

[punkritualtheatre]

I don't know,
As far as I'm aware, my multiple personalities which take over for fighting are naturaly occuring.
So I shouldn't advise on the matter.

[punkritualtheatre]

Baphomet,

Have you tried writing a narrative backwards, in prose or as a comic strip perhaps, or maybe visualising a comic strip with captions etc. which reverses the sequence of events.

Just a thought.

A friend of mine who councils drug addicts has a very high regard for a method of dealing with trauma by watching the events on a visualised TV screen and then watching it in reverse over and over again.

I think rage, irritation, frustration etc. can sometimes come from anything that symbolises / reminds of old traumas or bigger irritations.

They can also come from having your realities defined for you by people who could never avoid frustrating you because they're thick.

Iether way, since trauma and rage both make tunnel vision, reversing the narrative might reverse the frame back out of the tunnel.

[iconoclasm]

I don't know if it connects but whenever I feel angry ,I think of a string of words "awaken,conserve energy",A.C.E.? It tends to stop me from flying of the deep end until I'm drunk.In fact I'm able to access situations and brush them off my shoulders.

It could be worse-this happens to be a common terminology I find useful as well because instead of self absorption in the situation,you access and make a comparison to situations of greater gravity.

[I AM the Way]

I have a dilemma and would like to know if NLP can help.Though I have a valid disgust toward adhering to structure,I still am not entirely liberated from structure.The prime example is society's laws and rules.

I have no hatred for humans,I do however have a desire to inflict grievous harm upon one for the simple reason that it will feel liberating.I desire to ultimately look back at the laws of society and my FEAR of the consequences of breaking such law.The ultimate liberation is free from fear.

The problem is not a shortage of targets,on the contrary ,there are numerous people of lesser intellects whom would gladly fight me for no reason.It is an uneasiness that comes not from the initial strike,but from not having enough reason to strike.The mind is overly reliant on having a reason before initiating an action.When there is a valid reason for something such as studying,the mind fails to deliver.

If such is the case we are stuck in a loop or circular logic that has very limiting implications.

I don't have to walk outside and hit a person in the face to express my freedom (though my violent demons desire their urges to be satisfied every once).Matter of fact,making sexual advances on a woman or the idea gives me greater fear.Speaking to them I can only do from a shielded perspective,much like I would speak to family,Friends and even you folks.The limitation is an inability to find a reason in which would allow me to act.Sex makes me feel like an alien as does initiating an act of violence.

How can I deal with this?

if you can come up with the language to help you act as you'd like to act, then NLP can benefit you in this situation. for instance, if you told yourself that you're merely trying to get more acquainted with a woman and become closer to her rather than 'i want to make a sexual advance towards this woman'. the former would allow you to act without fear while the latter would might make you too hesitant to initiate contact.

use words to trick your mind into achieving better results. that's all Neuro-Linguistic Programing is.


VS

[iconoclasm]

Ahh thanks,now I understand better how it is.If I can come across as somewhat interesting or "fun" instead of dull,I am confident I will be on my way to success. I'm sure theres a woman who is both strange and beautiful out there (unfortunately,despite being in college,theres a lack of substance in terms of persona in many women I bother speak to.Even the attractive ones are lackluster -SIGH!-theres of course a strange intuitive feeling when there is someone worth wile)

[punkritualtheatre]

After writing about the immitating someone's noises when you tickle them or manipulate nerve points, etc.

I realised that a Systema master called Vladimir Vasiliev had shown me it briefly when he was walking 'round and demonstrating at a seminar a few years ago.

He'd already witnessed how the abuser was behaving.

I was bemused by it at the time, because it looked frivolous, but now it does make sense.