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Post by twilighterheart on Jul 20, 2011 4:15:43 GMT -6
Outstanding nail must be hammered in is an old Japanese saying. Like the lone prey falls behind the herd is easily and quickly brought down by the hungry lions. So, it is the nature of humans to seek to smooth and polish which is thought dangerous and outlandish.
Mr. High Priest should take his grand work underground and away from public consumption.
We live in an age when all are raised with the idea everyone is special, but in truth just leveling everyone kills the idea of a hero. The loner that dares to challenge the useless system yoking him to the common, the plain, and the layman.
He has every right to fight this with in his means, but the herd fears this nail. They gladly, with glee in their tiny hearts stomp on him and his elk.
The common people are the mere users of any given system, few bother to raise their heads to the stars and wonder what's out there. They need of rule and law is great to manage the willful human creatures.
Mr. High Priest's intentions are good, and even great, but he is ignoring one vital principal. He is a threat, and the road to hell is path with plenty of forerunners that have done the same before him. Some even with their own blood.
He would do good and better to select from those around that are faithful, strong, and have something to add to his own plans. Take himself and them from public view to allow them to grow without worry of needless interference.
He has only two options: being the nail or the hammer. The choice is his alone to make. I would hope he would choose to be the hammer and to nail his own creation, other then to be hammered in and nail into commonality.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2011 5:03:34 GMT -6
Outstanding nail must be hammered in is an old Japanese saying. Like the lone prey falls behind the herd is easily and quickly brought down by the hungry lions. So, it is the nature of humans to seek to smooth and polish which is thought dangerous and outlandish. Mr. High Priest should take his grand work underground and away from public consumption. We live in an age when all are raised with the idea everyone is special, but in truth just leveling everyone kills the idea of a hero. The loner that dares to challenge the useless system yoking him to the common, the plain, and the layman. He has every right to fight this with in his means, but the herd fears this nail. They gladly, with glee in their tiny hearts stomp on him and his elk. The common people are the mere users of any given system, few bother to raise their heads to the stars and wonder what's out there. They need of rule and law is great to manage the willful human creatures. Mr. High Priest's intentions are good, and even great, but he is ignoring one vital principal. He is a threat, and the road to hell is path with plenty of forerunners that have done the same before him. Some even with their own blood. He would do good and better to select from those around that are faithful, strong, and have something to add to his own plans. Take himself and them from public view to allow them to grow without worry of needless interference. He has only two options: being the nail or the hammer. The choice is his alone to make. I would hope he would choose to be the hammer and to nail his own creation, other then to be hammered in and nail into commonality. (I quote to prevent the danger of editing.)
Since a while I think something similar. A part of the Cult should be kept secret. A secret forum or with a password, only open to those who proved their value and implication, who are definitively eager to progress toward self-deification and to call back the Old Ones. A forum with more communication, much more personal data so it is easier to help each other on our goals, to verify progress of everyone, to warn the one who is getting asleep, and to feel a real brotherhood. And with more Magic, maybe collective experiments, an Emerald mass (all this is more powerful when secret and not polluted by unworthy I think), etc. No need to be many.
Hey, maybe it already exist ?
Remember yourself, for the emerald kingdom is at hand.
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Post by twilighterheart on Jul 20, 2011 12:09:50 GMT -6
Outstanding nail must be hammered in is an old Japanese saying. Like the lone prey falls behind the herd is easily and quickly brought down by the hungry lions. So, it is the nature of humans to seek to smooth and polish which is thought dangerous and outlandish. Mr. High Priest should take his grand work underground and away from public consumption. We live in an age when all are raised with the idea everyone is special, but in truth just leveling everyone kills the idea of a hero. The loner that dares to challenge the useless system yoking him to the common, the plain, and the layman. He has every right to fight this with in his means, but the herd fears this nail. They gladly, with glee in their tiny hearts stomp on him and his elk. The common people are the mere users of any given system, few bother to raise their heads to the stars and wonder what's out there. They need of rule and law is great to manage the willful human creatures. Mr. High Priest's intentions are good, and even great, but he is ignoring one vital principal. He is a threat, and the road to hell is path with plenty of forerunners that have done the same before him. Some even with their own blood. He would do good and better to select from those around that are faithful, strong, and have something to add to his own plans. Take himself and them from public view to allow them to grow without worry of needless interference. He has only two options: being the nail or the hammer. The choice is his alone to make. I would hope he would choose to be the hammer and to nail his own creation, other then to be hammered in and nail into commonality. (I quote to prevent the danger of editing.)
Since a while I think something similar. A part of the Cult should be kept secret. A secret forum or with a password, only open to those who proved their value and implication, who are definitively eager to progress toward self-deification and to call back the Old Ones. A forum with more communication, much more personal data so it is easier to help each other on our goals, to verify progress of everyone, to warn the one who is getting asleep, and to feel a real brotherhood. And with more Magic, maybe collective experiments, an Emerald mass (all this is more powerful when secret and not polluted by unworthy I think), etc. No need to be many.
Hey, maybe it already exist ?
Remember yourself, for the emerald kingdom is at hand.If something like is already around, then it is still unknown and not worthy to consideration. Mr. High Priest should only worry about his own work and nothing else. I get the feeling his desires run very deep and extraordinary, so he has a further need to tread with the greatest care and vigilance. "All this is more powerful when secret and not polluted by unworthy I think."That is why he should take his work underground.. All of it! I mean nothing should remain in the public domain awareness. This would create a vacuum and pull the forces together.
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Post by lokidreaming on Jul 20, 2011 22:27:55 GMT -6
@vs @c'S
Eager to hear back your response regarding this chain of posts as keeping a few things private is also on mind from time to time.
Also, isn't that what PM and email is for?
Belief IS Relity Loki Dreaming
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Post by boksmutant on Jul 21, 2011 0:12:26 GMT -6
It's a matter of us not being in close proximity to each other that prohibits what you speak of twilighterheart. We all want to raise the dark Gods so they can crush the reality that has been forced upon us. I would look forward to going under ground & building a world with the minds we've got here. There are plenty of "lifers" here ready to go the distance way more than you think. Some people have spent a lot of time on-line & they may appear to be just hanging on to another "trend", but You've seen what we discus here & it can often at times go way beyond just sharing ideas.
I'm new to the internet & would love to see this organization flourish to epic heights. I might at times not even see the value of being more discreet or underground. But that's the point of the COC, Venger has this to act as a beacon or light house for the many lost souls like myself who had absolutely no hope for the human race, & would have rather seen the whole race thrown into the deepest pit & obliterated for all time for it's crimes.
There are a lot more radical people here than you think & your missing how devoted some of us already are. Don't mistake that we are hiding behind our internet name so that we can spend our lives pretending to be interested for some social need. I'm ready to go the distance & Venger has shown him self very ready for years that he's planning to go the distance. How long can you think he would keep this up if it didn't matter to him? It's been years!
I sorta agree with you on the underground thing, but we need a vehicle for finding people like my self who would have never know of this. What your asking has everything to do with us not being near each other. If I had even TWO Cultists living in my city, I would have all kinds of stuff to help carry us off line. I'd have all kinds of meetings & gatherings happening, I'd be throwing the Cthulhu Cons every year! lol, but like I said we still need that vehicle. After all the structure has been lain, we still need it.
The COC site must remain & we will use it to reach for all the people we can, like tentacles that don't ball up lol. Keep that shit stretched out!
Hail Cthulhu sister!
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Post by I AM the Way on Jul 21, 2011 13:21:57 GMT -6
There is a third option, of course. That is to be the wood itself. I have been run through with nails many a time. Doesn't bother me anymore. I don't mind the hammer either.
Instead of hiding away like the now extinct ONA, I'm going to do the opposite... bring all this stuff out into the open. I advise most of you to do the same.
I'm working on a novel. We'll see what happens. Incidentally, that's why I haven't been on the forum or social network lately. Writing is something I'm good at and enjoy. Novels are the conventional format for fiction, and until now I've found the temptation to write one extremely resistible. I'm conforming to become non-conformist. Wish me luck.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Ipsissimus Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by ophiuchus on Jul 21, 2011 15:32:12 GMT -6
This may be derailing the topic, but what's the novel about? (I assume the Mythos factors into it somehow, but that might not even be the case)
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Post by dudetyson on Jul 23, 2011 18:05:13 GMT -6
I'm pro-public. There's a difference between teaching and initiation. Teaching is just the spread of ideas. Initiation is helping someone have an educational experience, emphasis on experience. Initiation can't be done well over the Internet.
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Post by twilighterheart on Jul 24, 2011 4:34:00 GMT -6
There is a third option, of course. That is to be the wood itself. I have been run through with nails many a time. Doesn't bother me anymore. I don't mind the hammer either.
Instead of hiding away like the now extinct ONA, I'm going to do the opposite... bring all this stuff out into the open. I advise most of you to do the same.
I'm working on a novel. We'll see what happens. Incidentally, that's why I haven't been on the forum or social network lately. Writing is something I'm good at and enjoy. Novels are the conventional format for fiction, and until now I've found the temptation to write one extremely resistible. I'm conforming to become non-conformist. Wish me luck.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Ipsissimus Cult of Cthulhu
You completely misunderstood the saying. It is about those standing to far out, being to different, and then being hammered by either the government or people in general. I do believe you didn't even bothering reading my entire message, and if you did, you do not get what my points. Your little quaint cult shall never be more then what it is now, a feeble little online novelty. How long have you been doing this for? Years. We are finite creatures with limited energy, you spend so much time and work on this, and for what? A few quirky occulist online chatting. I am not impress, and nor would to many other people be. There are good reasons I have not gone public myself, no one would care. I know this, and even accept and expect too. My only point is maybe you should take some more and/or a lot more time out before trying something like this again to get it right finally. To be a big deal, to be something people to take notice of, and to have a lasting impact has well. The only reason you have gotten any attention is solely based on you using an already known work, and not for your own creation. Let me make this has clear and blunt has I can make it: you still need a great amount of work and preparation before attempting to be any sort of worthy statesmanship. I do believe you can make a fine leader someday, just not now. I don't think asking you to step back and withdraw to refine your leadership skills is not a negative statement onto itself. I am not apart of any other group or clan. I am just someone from the shadows here to share my opinions about how I see things. Mr. High Priest has a great need to reread my first message to get this one. I don't wish him any ill will, on the contrary I hope he does accomplish things. In truth he does have many more years of hard work ahead of him to get any true foothold on to the a greater world stage.
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Post by boksmutant on Jul 25, 2011 12:15:10 GMT -6
why not? There has to be something you'd like to see flourish. If not the COC, then something? you seem pretty smart, but maybe you've been on the internet to much.
Awaken!
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Post by dudetyson on Jul 25, 2011 14:47:07 GMT -6
Okay, let's put all our cards on the table, Madam Twilightheart. While I'm generally cool with Venger, I do agree that the CoC could have expanded better during its 8 or so years of existence, and I do agree that Venger himself could work more on his organizing skills rather than simply religious, philosophical, and magical matters.
That being said, do you have any advice for pulling that off? What would it take? I think elsewhere you said that a person should strive to become possessed by the gods. That's a good start; however I suspect that the most deeply spiritual person could still be come off socially as an inept buffoon whose tastes for the unusual weaken, rather than strengthen, their ability to communicate and recruit.
What would we have to be, in order to be taken seriously? And how do we get from where we are now to that status?
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Post by twilighterheart on Jul 25, 2011 17:47:22 GMT -6
Okay, let's put all our cards on the table, Madam Twilightheart. While I'm generally cool with Venger, I do agree that the CoC could have expanded better during its 8 or so years of existence, and I do agree that Venger himself could work more on his organizing skills rather than simply religious, philosophical, and magical matters. That being said, do you have any advice for pulling that off? What would it take? I think elsewhere you said that a person should strive to become possessed by the gods. That's a good start; however I suspect that the most deeply spiritual person could still be come off socially as an inept buffoon whose tastes for the unusual weaken, rather than strengthen, their ability to communicate and recruit. What would we have to be, in order to be taken seriously? And how do we get from where we are now to that status? I have spent seven entire years devoted to controlling my powers, and now I am just refining them. I have developed a very fine private library full of varying different types of books I have started to read, and to absorb their knowledge and energies. I am not in any hurry, that's a problem with modern society, everyone is rushing and to where? I have only accomplished a lot on the spiritual side, and now I must combine that with the secular side of things. I have read about how independent learned persons accomplished a great deal, and changed the world and were the very founding of my great things we take for grant like science. There wasn't anyone to give them a way to invent things that had yet to be invented, they had to do it on their own. I still have many more years in front of me before I can be that type of person myself. The questions should be like: who are you, what do you want, and are you happy? The self has been the most abused part of the human self in the history of our species. That is what is wrong with us all now. You start with fixing your own problems with your own self, is a great start. That is what I have and will continued to do, and I has I become more healthier and stronger within my own power and self then I can accomplish what I will to do. If only four or five, truly self contained occultists were to join forces then nothing would stop them from doing what they wanted to. Most of the time what defeats us is ourselves, and if you can repair and remake and complete our own makeup then defeat is that more unlikely. My Other has been trying to teach this truth to me from the beginning. I can't relay on other people to give me anything on emotional level, I must give what I need to myself. God, is it hard, I want to be apart of society, to have friends, to have a loving family but I don't have any of that. I have only my own strength to endure this life, but there are underlying gifts that have remained unseen and unused by me until now. Nothing anyone says to me or about me bothers me, I am free in that way. The only thing I want from other people is to enjoy them for who and what they are. We have forgotten the pleasure of living a life. Part of my plans is to introduce that ideal on some type level in society. Maybe, someday far from now I might allow someone to get close to me, but I doubt it. My point is this: how dare anyone try to fix the governor's mansion, when his own house is a wreck. I am not saying we shouldn't meditate on what is wrong with society, but we are better off tending to our own lots first and getting them in order before moving on to great pastures. It is what I have and will continued to do for the rest of my days, so I do what I preach.
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Post by lokidreaming on Jul 25, 2011 22:42:08 GMT -6
@twilightheart
I understand the points you are making and quite a few of them are very important and relevant, so thank you for pointing them out to us.
This is where the majority of the problem lies.
On the one hand we have people who BELIEVE in this PRINCIPLE. On the other hand you have others who thinks this is wrong. Then others who are like I understand both sides, but can't work out which one is right as they both are right.
Which answer is close to the truth and becomes the actual truth? Which answer is the actual truth which is ignored?
For me the above quote is a very limited view of things and contradicts the BELIEF and PRINIPLE of KNOW THYSELF and others.
*Why should I as a person fix my house, when I am comfortable with it? *No, I am not going to remove different coloured flowers of my lawn, due to it stands out too much from the governers house. *Don't give a toss if there are still plates and empty beer bottles sitting on the lawn since last weeks party.
Better off and tending our own lot first? As in get more street cred? aka reputation from the general public in the long run? What a limited and generalised view and ways of getting things done?
Those who think this way, are chcken shits who are afraid of stuffing up due to errenous inputs; I have been there myself, so I should know and proves to me that they are too ashamed or scared of getting shamed if they mistep publicly.
Why hide? Why not just come out swinging? You ain't going to get better and improve until to fall down a few times; publicly speaking that is
Why do people take BELEIFS and PRINCIPLES like that so literally? Why do people get BELEIFS and PRINIPLES mixed up?
As I can tell from your posts you have got a few BELIEFS and PRINCIPLES mixed up and confused with each other.
Once you KNOW THYSELF, people like you want people like us to step back in line; in line with your views of how things should be?
WTF?
Why fixed the Governors' House when our own house is a wreck?
From the outsiders point of view, it looks like a wreck.
Take a metal heads house of resident is your typical metal head house full of skulls and metal poster and sparse furniture which the metal head calls home and the metal head goes to the governors house to teach the governor and his household how to be free like the wind again as that household has lost itself in the world of mechanicalness; in turn the experience will also touch the metalheads life for the better.
The metalhead represnts someone who KNOWS THEMSELFES and free form the mechanicalness of the world as much as that metalhead can be in turn he is the right candidate to help free the governor from his mecahnicalness.
I used the example to illustrate the contrasts of freedom (metal head) and a person chained (govenor) to the mechanicalness of life.
Also the metalhead doubles up as VS The govenor doubles up as people like you
I myself will not let myself be chained down by your views or other similar views by you or others on how things should be done as it is very mechanical and full of falsities and misinterpretations of the original BELIEFS AND PRINICPLES from which they originally originate.
For me the quoted quote must be eradicated as being the actual truth.
If you want to spend all your time and energy playing keeping up with JONES and wasting your time and energy correcting people, then so be it.
Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by twilighterheart on Jul 25, 2011 23:59:33 GMT -6
@twilightheart I understand the points you are making and quite a few of them are very important and relevant, so thank you for pointing them out to us. This is where the majority of the problem lies. On the one hand we have people who BELIEVE in this PRINCIPLE. On the other hand you have others who thinks this is wrong. Then others who are like I understand both sides, but can't work out which one is right as they both are right. Which answer is close to the truth and becomes the actual truth? Which answer is the actual truth which is ignored? I wish you had said what principle I was speaking of because it was a point I was trying to make instead. Instead of pointing a finger to the leaders and blaming them for everything, people need to go look in the mirror and point to the person staring back, themselves. To work on thyself is much harder then cleaning up the rulers house, I personally believe. It's not about sides, just working on making your self into a better person in whatever form or way you see best and not by others say about it. Most people that have happy and truly okay with their lives do not care about politics, so telling them to care about the ruler's house is a moot point at best. Those that throws that kind of parties are like the former types of people and is still a moot point to them has well. Better to remain thought a fool then to open one's mouth to prove it. There is a time to speak and a time to remain silent. I believe if a person is going to do something, do it to one's best abilities. To know one's self and to know one's enemies takes time. Just to come out randomly swing is just a waste of time and effort without a good plan backing it up. You have no idea of my personal believes and most of all my principles. People like me?! There aren't people like me, I am one of kind. I just want people to be their natural selves. What line? I only believe in circles. Your example is not the best, I most honestly say, but I will go along with your point nonetheless. The metalhead would not care about politics, few do and they are not free. A ruler may have many burdens but they are not a slave. They are both human beings with same basic makeup, everyone has trials and troubles. Everyone goes through times no one can see and feel, let alone understand. It's important to step back and see that. It's easy to toss labels and presumptions on other people but much harder to try to relate to someone that lives a different type of lifestyle from yourself. Talk about missing the boat and the point. You took one thing I said and twisted it around to fit your own insecurities about yourself and other things. This has little to nothing to do about me, and everything how you see things. That's fine, you have a complete right to your feelings and viewpoints, but don't camouflage them in a misinterpretation of something I said to build your own feelings on to either make your self feel better or to look better by appearances alone. I see by the last part you wrote you do not understand my points. I do not have a right to tell anyone, how to live their lives. Most certainly people that their own lives are a complete mess, and that is my point entirely. Fix your house before through rocks at the rulers house. That's easy and not going to solve anything, take the harder road and fix your problems.
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Post by boksmutant on Jul 26, 2011 1:41:00 GMT -6
Alright, now were getting somewhere! Stay with this so we'll know what your looking for & where you would take us.
Answer dudeTysons questions.
Awaken!
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Post by dudetyson on Jul 26, 2011 15:23:14 GMT -6
My point is this: how dare anyone try to fix the governor's mansion, when his own house is a wreck. I honestly think I'm an authentic and driven-enough person, so if my house is a wreck, it's generally because the governor's troops have been dropping bombs on it. The damage being wreaked on people by the economy these days is enough to pretty much erase a decade of everyone's long efforts. That's not something to which anyone can say, "Oh, just try harder." The system is so heinously flawed that the quest for selfhood must now lead straight into the swamp of politics. Now to read the rest of the thread...
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Post by dudetyson on Jul 26, 2011 15:28:55 GMT -6
As far as answering my challenge of saying what, precisely, we should do, all you really did was say that you've done some reading about the great secular figures in history who made big changes happen. I'm guessing you mean people like Joan of Arc, Ghandi, Hitler, Napoleon, MLKJr, etc etc.
Okay, that's great, but that doesn't get beyond the same kindergarten conception of history and society that most people have: "Some person came along and everyone listened to them and big things happened."
Organization and social change, in my mind, are a very precise science, one which no one can afford to ignore.
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Post by lokidreaming on Jul 26, 2011 22:49:26 GMT -6
@twilightheart
You talked about sides and enemies.
Which sides and enemies were you referring to?
Camouflage? To make myself feeel better or to look better by arppearances alone?
The answer is NO that is not even true, so confused as where you are coming from on this point.
LD
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