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Post by scarlett156 on Sept 6, 2006 18:33:39 GMT -6
This book is basically my only exposure to Gurdjieff until this point-- and I read it when I was like maybe 12 or 13 years old. Here's a link to some of it: www.gurdjieff.org/original.htmHas anyone else read it? (When I first read the book I was disappointed because it was "all philosophy"-- I thought it would be, like, BEELZEBUB TELLING STORIES TO HIS DEMON GRANDKID, lol.)
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Post by I AM the Way on Sept 7, 2006 16:43:13 GMT -6
yeah, that's a weird one. apparently, Gurdjieff wrote that at the end of his life when most people considered him insane.
i glanced through it once or twice, but it didn't strike me enough to buy a copy.
a much more profound discussion of 4th way ideas can be found in The Fourth Way by P. D. Ouspensky
the 4th way is all about awakening. man is asleep, mechanical, in prison... all these metaphors describe our situation in this world and why work is necessary. work on oneself.
VS
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Post by m2alik on Oct 29, 2006 16:24:42 GMT -6
I'm about halfway through this tome of a book. It is about 1200 pages. The book forces to to think. it also forces you to be Awake.
as of how it is written it was written to realise you are asleep.also to some it may be consider "crazy" or he went insane but it was his school. not Ouspenky's. Gurdjieff was trying to write All he knew in books.
Gurdjieff didn't in a sense want followers but companions.
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 29, 2006 18:59:22 GMT -6
cool then. if you think it's worth reading, i'll have to investigate...
can you tell me a little more about it? it's the 4th way in story form like allegories and parables?
VS
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Post by m2alik on Oct 30, 2006 11:04:17 GMT -6
The story is allegory and parables of how "madness" is the norm and enlightenment is to Know The Truth. Basically by The Title of the book it is Gnostic and not so called "christian". It forces you to rethink everything.
A prime example is how people will blame anything but themselves for their problems. It makes you sole responsible instead of somebody else. Which is the core of everything is the self.in a way it is inverted to the norm. Gurdjieff didn't like most people. He considered them primates and he jokingly called them three brained beings.He actually considered national pride as a psychosis! as you can tell The fourth Way technically is about individual not groups.Thank you.
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Post by revbrendan on Aug 8, 2007 13:16:16 GMT -6
hmm just glancing it over it reminds me of "the screwtape letters"
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Post by jasmine on Oct 11, 2007 11:44:52 GMT -6
I am reading it right now. His writing style reminds me of Robert Anton Wilson. I remember my head swimming like this when I read the Illuminatus Trilogy...that was a funny book. snarf. I am interested to see how I feel when I am done with this one. Jaz.
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 11, 2007 13:33:37 GMT -6
i haven't read Beelzebub's Tales To His Grandson. although i've heard it's very unorthodox. apparently, Gurdjieff wrote it towards the end of his life when some thought him quite mad. let me know what you think... if it's a good exploration or discussion of 4th way ideas or if it's just Gurdjieff himself being strange.
VS
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Post by jasmine on Oct 26, 2007 9:53:58 GMT -6
Still working on reading the book. I have picked out many tenents of the philosophies I am just beginning to understand. He has buried all this info in a story format that actually makes my mind seem to fall asleep while reading and then "awaken" at differing intervals in the story. Almost as if the whole of the book is designed to "jump" the conscious mind and deposit most of its info into the unconsious.....and then create a bridge. I dont know it that euphamisim makes sense to you....but it does to me. I ended up getting another book about Gurdjeiff that helps translate his thoughts. It is written by Margaret Anderson. It is helping me understand a little more of his teachings. I really wish I had a teacher as all the literature about the 4th way seems to state that you cannot learn this on your own. We have no local 4th way group to even check out. So I will continue to muddle on and pester people online with my endless queries.
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 26, 2007 11:10:15 GMT -6
the Cult of Cthulhu is itself a 4th way school, so please feel free to pester me, uh... i mean ask questions. after all, that's why there's a whole board devoted to this esoteric teaching.
VS
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Post by jasmine on Oct 29, 2007 17:20:19 GMT -6
Thank you Venger:) At the moment I feel like I am in the middle of an all out war between my false personality and my burgeoning awareness/awakeness. My mind actually is fighting me on many subjects or simply distracting me. I am simply struggling to continue self-observation. It is disheartening after such joyful intitial successes. But, I am aware that some confusion is inevitable when in times of change. I do however, really resonate with the idea that the struggle will have to remain constant as this is not a "natural" state for my mind. I am wondering if I am expecting too much from myself right out of the box.
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 29, 2007 21:37:33 GMT -6
that is a widespread phenomenon. some call it beginner's luck, but there's more to it than that. many times when we try something new we achieve a small success very quickly, but in no time at all we hit a roadblock. how did the field get so difficult when everything started out so easy?
i have no idea if this is the universe at work or the A:O. however, i do know that with time and effort, you will keep gaining ground and have more success. years from now, the level you're at now will probably seem like child's play.
so keep up with the self-observation and let us know how things go.
VS
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Post by m2alik on Oct 31, 2007 12:36:13 GMT -6
Beelseabub's Tales to his Grandson is a culmination of all his philosohies. He taught O.D. Ouspensky. I am on 712 pg. It is both from a social critic on the insaneness of unenlightenment and a Way to Awaken through subconsciuos wording as jasmine wrote. As of Ouspensky he had a falling out with Gurdjieff. As of more related to Awakening it is through efforst of "suffering". By suffering to push your mind and body to sync togehter as one being. It is to control and Awaken until the highest is a normal state.
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Post by jasmine on Nov 11, 2007 9:17:01 GMT -6
I am taking my time. I am only on page 164. I usually read much faster than this, but I am finding myself at a 12 page or so limit. I tend to need to sit and think between chapters. It is alot of info to absorb all at once. Gurdjeiff made a comment once in reference to all the rewrites of this book that he was "burying the dog deeper". I agree with his method. It takes time to shift ones internal paradigm, even with conscious effort. I realize now that I have been doing this in differing levels for the last 25 years, just now I have a "map". It helps some, but in the end....its up to me.
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Post by jasmine on Nov 27, 2007 12:38:28 GMT -6
This book is quickly becoming invaluable to me. I have discovered that I have largely been more conscious than I originally thought over the last 15 years. But, I was still missing an important component. Self Observation. I am finding that harder than Self Remembering. I am noticing many things shifting in my psyche as I am working with this system. I am still essentially myself, but I am also different. I have had some weird things happening to me this last two months that I do believe have to do with the internal changes I am making. I have had a couple of long time friends that were really using me...suddenly find themselves unable to do so anymore and they wandered off in a fit of anger. On the other hand my life is taking off magically. I am going to get to participate in a LHP monthly get together here locally and I have had many people reenter my life as well. I digress. What I wanted to talk about here was Self Observation. I spent this last week doing the Thanksgiving thing. It ate up my time and my family (parents) depress me. So I played wayyyyy too much of a new video game we have (no I do not usually play video games) called Hellgate London. I was attracted to it because of the Lovecraftian demons and all the angles depicted in the artwork though out the game. As the week progressed, I became more and more agitated. Yes, family was part of it. I worked hard at stilling negative thoughts and replacing them with positve ones and still my brain hurt. I kept playing the game until on Sat and Sun that is all I did. On Sunday night I realized that I was hurting myself and was feeding myself unhealthy being food. I was completely shutting down my conscious mind and replacing it with mechanical entertainment. I am not trying to say all video games are bad. I am saying that what made me realize it was that my sleep was becoming really interrupted and I could not articulate well. I realized that I had forgotten to read any of the book this week and got it out. Within 15 minutes my brain stopped aching and smoothed out. I felt better in my being and well, it was profound. I think that my current belief is that the book is designed to make you conscious whether you wish to be or not. It is truly thought provoking, funny and extremely helpful. I can honestly say that when I started it 2 months ago I thought it was more than a little weird and I questioned the sanity of the man who had written it. I no longer do. He was more sane than most. I am going to remember this lesson and really listen to myself from now on when my brain hurts that way. I know now that it is an indicator of application of unhealthy being food. Well, I just looked this doc over and it really looks like psychobabble to me. But it did happen and I am grateful for the experience as I will be on guard from now on.
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 27, 2007 16:42:23 GMT -6
that's funny... i was just thinking of that book and wondering what your current thoughts on it were! yeah, i've got to start reading that.
thanks for the update, Jasmine.
VS
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Post by amnesiac on Nov 29, 2007 9:22:13 GMT -6
thank you for sharing this Jasmine, I think that was the kind of confirmation I was looking for ... now things are falling in its place! Will find and read that book too, once I have finished all the others ?!?
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Post by jasmine on Nov 29, 2007 10:51:36 GMT -6
LOL!! I too am having a reading crisis! I can only really read 5 books at a time...darn it. I want to be reading about 15 differing books I have been exposed to lately. Tons of interest and too little time! Thank you for the compliment !
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Post by jasmine on Jan 8, 2008 11:56:22 GMT -6
I am so far behind on the book. I also feel that I am not doing the work properly. I am too caught up in my other magical pursuits. I stopped reading it a couple of weeks ago and I can really feel it. I know his writing style is crazy, but he makes sense to me and I get a lot out of reading this book. I will make sure to read more today. It always soothes my mind.
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