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Post by Erebos on Feb 14, 2011 16:48:03 GMT -6
I am short on time so I can't write much but I would like to open this discussion up.
I would like to hear your opinions and ideas on Christianity. I will post more once I have time and after I research it a little more, but for now I will provide a few examples I have been thinking about.
The church of Christianity has defiantly strayed I will say but looking at the bible some and other teachings it seems Christianity is not to different than some of these beliefs.
God, to me, is perhaps ones own mind. God, or the mind, created order and all the universe, as we know it, it allows us to experience the world as there is nothing without something to experience it. I've tried substituting the name God with ones mind when ever I see Christian teachings and most of the time it works extremely well without much modification. I believe the followers of Christianity has taken the bible in so much of a literal meaning that they lost sight of its actual goal and teachings.
Off the top of my head from a part of the bible that shows some of my point is the part about the demon Legion. First of all Jesus Christ seems to be someone who could have Awakened and tried to share those ideas, he is the son of the mind. As I remember Legion was banished by Christ, correct? Legion was named such for he was many similar to the many "I's" within out mind, he was a demon to humanity and perhaps the true meaning of this passage was to unify those many "I's" thus banishing the demon that causes man to fall.
To clarify a little I use demon as a word to describe the adversary of man in more of a Christian sense as I know the demon is a good part in this cult, so the way I use it is slightly different.
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Post by Ikaros on Feb 14, 2011 20:30:50 GMT -6
Several things worth mentioning on this topic. It is very difficult to talk about "the church of Christianity." There are so many different denominations, and so many differing opinions between the members of each individual denomination, that trying to isolate one interpretation means that you miss out on many other's views.
The concept that God is mental is a belief espoused by many hermetic scholars. In fact it is the first principle of the Kybalion. This was most likely influenced by the Gnostic Christians, which are rather high up on Lord Satanis's pyramid of ascension.
Your interpretation of the story of the demons that called themselves Legion is a pretty big stretch. Depending on which version of the story you are reading (and which translation) the story takes on different particulars. For example, in the gospels of Mark and Luke, it is one man possessed by many demons; however, in Matthew's version there are two men possessed by demons, and they do not give their names. In all three cases, they beg Jesus to let them go into a nearby herd of pigs, which he does. It depends on which version of the story and how it is read as to whether Jesus cast them out or they left voluntarily out of fear.
For the record, I used the King James version. The complete story can be found in Mark chapter 5, Luke and Matthew chapter 8.
All this having been said, I think you are looking in the right place to analyse Christianity. The gospels are the best place to look for the cornerstones of that faith. I would avoid tackling the Hebrew Bible, because most Christians don't even begin to read it correctly, let alone interpret it.
Belief is Reality!
Ikaros
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Post by Erebos on Feb 14, 2011 21:03:07 GMT -6
I see, well going to the demon part whether it be forced or voluntarily I think it can still apply. Of course I haven't gotten the chance to read the bible (among other religious texts) yet I think these things can be connected quite well, at least apply to me for I can't speak for all others.
Then when I say the church I mostly mean the mainstream Christianity and Catholic churches which is still being a little vague so I will say that in most churches (from what I've seen) the literal sense of it has smothered the lessons while other people think that God will provide for them, but what they don't know is that they must make themselves better so their God (mind) will actually help them.
Once I'm done with my recent books I am going to read the bible (not sure which one) but then I may be able to contribute more to this analysis. Though I will gladly continue speaking to the best of my knowledge and if my examples or comparisons are flawed then I will gladly learn.
Belief Is Reality!
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Post by Ikaros on Feb 14, 2011 23:29:09 GMT -6
Then when I say the church I mostly mean the mainstream Christianity and Catholic churches which is still being a little vague so I will say that in most churches (from what I've seen) the literal sense of it has smothered the lessons while other people think that God will provide for them, but what they don't know is that they must make themselves better so their God (mind) will actually help them. The rest of the New Testament is all about working on one's self to conform to Jesus's "Message." The Book of James is of particular note because it was a lynch pin in the Catholic view that you had to work for your salvation, whereas Martin Luther (one of the founders of protestantism) believed that it was faith (or what we might call belief) alone that ensured one's salvation. "But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:20. If I may make a suggestion as to which version of the Bible to read, The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha: New Revised Standard Version is my favorite. The NRSV is my favorite translation as it is as accurate as the King James without the archaic language style. The Oxford Annotated Bible includes plenty of explanation notes and essays to explain why people believe things based on different parts of the Bible. Reading the Bible is a challenge. Most Christians haven't read the whole thing. The most important thing to remember is that it was written over centuries (literally) and by many different people and then compiled under several different editors. This makes it a piecemeal work of literature at best. Good Luck. Belief is Reality! Ikaros |
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Post by boksmutant on Feb 15, 2011 0:05:03 GMT -6
Clearly the man in question was overwhelmed with problems from beyond. His true "I" was lost long ago & Legion was what took over in the void.
"I"s unite to accomplish a goal, not loose control. Legion is something that moves in when you have no control,when your "I"s are weak & scattered. Jesus merely left the man empty & able to start anew. But his "I"s were unaffected & he probably became exactly who he was just before the possesion.
Not much was effected in benefit for the man. He will probably be just as susceptible next time as well. The key factor for him to survive this will be to observe himself in the future & give heed to a world outside himself. He is susceptible, as some of us are. So it will be important for him to realize this.
I feel your question is not being met. Am I correct?
Awake!
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Post by Erebos on Feb 15, 2011 17:19:51 GMT -6
Clearly the man in question was overwhelmed with problems from beyond. His true "I" was lost long ago & Legion was what took over in the void. "I"s unite to accomplish a goal, not loose control. Legion is something that moves in when you have no control,when your "I"s are weak & scattered. Jesus merely left the man empty & able to start anew. But his "I"s were unaffected & he probably became exactly who he was just before the possesion. Not much was effected in benefit for the man. He will probably be just as susceptible next time as well. The key factor for him to survive this will be to observe himself in the future & give heed to a world outside himself. He is susceptible, as some of us are. So it will be important for him to realize this. I feel your question is not being met. Am I correct? Awake! I really didn't have much of a question but yes you did share your opinion which is what I wanted. Also that is kind of what I meant, his "I's" were uncontrolled and the bad "I's" may have came out too much with out being subdued as man usually falls toward his detrimental desires. As I attempted to explain he was consumed by these bad "I's" which in a way would be like a demon possessing your body as your decisions may not be what you truly want or need. Thank you Ikaros, for the information this will be of use to me and if I do say anything to far of a stretch or false information I will gladly accept your corrections since you seem to be more educated in this subject than I. |
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Post by boksmutant on Feb 15, 2011 20:48:43 GMT -6
This is an interesting thing about "Bad "I"s". What happens when you let the bad one's constantly have control of you? Could it get so bad that you risk possession? I think so.
Allowing your self to dwindle & regress on a constant basses should cause quit a number of problems. Anyone who's been lazy for a long time is familiar with the emotional ups & downs to name one.
A lot could be written on the effects of the bad"I"s we cultivate.
Awake!
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Post by Erebos on Feb 18, 2011 5:50:17 GMT -6
To go a little farther on the Legion example of this I would like to say that going a herd of pigs make sense. If you let the bad "I's" control you to much you will no better than a herd of pigs and in the end you would be. You would wallow in filth and mud, eat or take in garbage, and be something else's meal.
Wallowing in filth would be living in a miserable lifestyle of unchecked indulgence where your house or family may have fallen into disrepair which would essentially be filth. Your life would be one of slothfulness and filth of mind thus a filthy and muddy reality would be yours.
By eating garbage you will be effected by external influences too much. Perhaps the media, other peoples influences, or whatever but all that one would see would take it in without a second though of the bad in it. They may also not realize the good points in it as they just take in the mass of garbage with a dead mind. So you are not yourself but everyone else.
Now this last part is quite interesting to me. By being a pig you are near the bottom of the food chain thus giving a wide range of predators. I remember reading in the CoC bibles that the universe or Lesser Gods feed off our misery thus feeding off our mind. A herd of pigs are also fed off by humans, a creature higher than them.
I'm sure this part may have been implied, but a herd of pigs is also separated in to many different minds or "I's". Pigs really don't associate much with the others though sometimes they may run into each other in a few instances much nothing big really comes from it, they are still trapped in their miserable muddy prison.
Now Jesus I said before is most likely an Awakened mind. He had his thoughts focused and a more center for his "I's". This kind of thinking helped the man by reliving him of his chaotic bad "I's". I'm not saying Jesus did this for him but Jesus's lesson or thoughts helped the man to overcome these bad "I's" whether willing or forcibly. Forcibly may seem a wrong to say but perhaps just by thinking about a bigger reality or what Christ taught, the man overcame those "I's" enough to get back on the right path against the Will of the bad "I's" instead of falling back into the pig pin.
Belief Is Reality!
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Post by Timotheus Prophet of Darkness on Mar 14, 2011 13:53:23 GMT -6
Then when I say the church I mostly mean the mainstream Christianity and Catholic churches which is still being a little vague so I will say that in most churches (from what I've seen) the literal sense of it has smothered the lessons while other people think that God will provide for them, but what they don't know is that they must make themselves better so their God (mind) will actually help them. The rest of the New Testament is all about working on one's self to conform to Jesus's "Message." The Book of James is of particular note because it was a lynch pin in the Catholic view that you had to work for your salvation, whereas Martin Luther (one of the founders of protestantism) believed that it was faith (or what we might call belief) alone that ensured one's salvation. " But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:20. (That kinda blows the whole You are only saved by faith alone idea of the protestants out the fricking door ;D) |
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Post by iandiabhal on Mar 14, 2011 21:28:52 GMT -6
"God, to me, is perhaps ones own mind. God, or the mind, created order and all the universe, as we know it, it allows us to experience the world as there is nothing without something to experience it."
Ian> Right off the bat - where did this idea coalesce from?
Were you born naturally believing this, as a young child - or was it something that someone "told" you? Was this a doctrine or particular view of "God" that you were instructed in at some point? Here is where the questioning begins.
If the mind is "God" then that would imply that man has simply "invented" God - to explain the neural activity of his brain and the phenomenon that occurs in the world around us. What about disorder and chaos? Did God or the mind create these - or are they the inverse aspect of the other? Here is a notion - there is no such thing as order - without disorder or symmetry without chaos.
How can something be "good" or "evil" when they are just flip sides of the same coin?
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