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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Dec 9, 2010 21:01:26 GMT -6
Many of you have told me that Cthulu and Satan are the same entity. I have a question about that. What about the other gods? Are they all lumped in as well? I've always had the belief that they are different gods, but I'd really like some clarification here if you would be so kind?
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Post by loganvonkannibal on Feb 7, 2011 22:56:08 GMT -6
No they are not!!!! Cthulhu is (do not qoute me on this) just one of satans demons?
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Post by xophier on Feb 8, 2011 9:11:01 GMT -6
I would say any adversarial force can be applied to the entity, title or amalgamation of Satan. If you think of it from a Hermetic stance, there could be aspects in two very different deities brought together to emphasize that one point and to play off of the minor aspects. An example could be from Hekate and Hermes to show the mechanics of magic and to show off speed and control, male and female. For Satan, you have a lot of mythology to grab at to mix with Cthulhu... if you choose to combine these, they can bring out various aspects of the two and show many parts which can be used for everything from ritual work to self-growth. It is how you see it, really.
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Post by Ikaros on Feb 8, 2011 14:57:43 GMT -6
I would say any adversarial force can be applied to the entity, title or amalgamation of Satan. If you think of it from a Hermetic stance, there could be aspects in two very different deities brought together to emphasize that one point and to play off of the minor aspects. An example could be from Hekate and Hermes to show the mechanics of magic and to show off speed and control, male and female. For Satan, you have a lot of mythology to grab at to mix with Cthulhu... if you choose to combine these, they can bring out various aspects of the two and show many parts which can be used for everything from ritual work to self-growth. It is how you see it, really. Brother Xophier, I think you have hit the nail on the head. Frankly, I am surprised that this thread was out there unanswered for so long. In the Cult Bibles, Lord Satanis talks about the Formless Black Essence. I think if we were to do a one to one correlation, Satan might match up to this: the source. Lord Satanis indicates that the A:O are emanations of this first principle. However, Satan as adversary could be applied to all of the A:O and possibly to any being that works against the lesser gods that hold us imprisoned. It's an interesting thought. Anyone else care to way in? Awake! Ikaros |
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Post by I AM the Way on Feb 8, 2011 15:07:09 GMT -6
At best, I see Satan or the Devil, as on par with the Ancient Ones. Putting Satan above the A:O just defeats the purpose of having a Left Hand Path unity above the entire A:O pantheon. Every Dark God, when combined like some gestaltic force becomes an aspect or facet of the Formless Black Essence.
Does that make sense?
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis
Ipsissimus
Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by Ikaros on Feb 8, 2011 15:17:58 GMT -6
At best, I see Satan or the Devil, as on par with the Ancient Ones. Putting Satan above the A:O just defeats the purpose of having a Left Hand Path unity above the entire A:O pantheon. Every Dark God, when combined like some gestaltic force becomes an aspect or facet of the Formless Black Essence.
Does that make sense?
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis
Ipsissimus
Cult of Cthulhu
I think we're on the same page. I was trying to draw the concept of Satan as the Adversary, as a title. In that sense, anyone who fights against the lesser gods could call his or her self satan. I base this concept on a lot of angelology study, in which my conclusion (though I'm not alone) is that there is not one entity known as Satan, the Adversary, but rather,it is a title that can be attributed to various different entities throughout angel lore. I see how my poor word choice and sentence structure made it sound like I was trying to equate Satan with the FBE. My mistake. Does that clarify my view? Belief is Reality! Ikaros |
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Post by boksmutant on Feb 8, 2011 22:10:32 GMT -6
The FBE is the end all of the dark. It has many names, the Wyrm bla bla bla. It is some thing to vast to comprehend, yet like the "good" Gods,it has its own children. Beings that were made/seperated to make sense of the little things. Satan to me is a being that is interested in the more physical & earthly sensations than the cosmic. Some can be more personable while others are just to far removed,like Cthulhu.
Awake!
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Post by I AM the Way on Feb 8, 2011 23:07:18 GMT -6
Yes, anything opposed to the lesser gods of the earth and this prison could technically be called adversarial.
I think most people agree that Satan and Satanism lacks that cosmic essence.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis
Ipsissimus
Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by boksmutant on Feb 10, 2011 19:31:56 GMT -6
Christianity was once a strange & obscure religion & the Left Hand Path had its way with humanity. Something different took over the people that crushed the old Gods.
Now that these "crushing" religions have had their go, perhaps the old ones will come back a little stronger.
It is interesting to think what took over humanity that the drastic change was needed.
Awake!
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Post by ophiuchus on Feb 10, 2011 22:13:23 GMT -6
I always got the impression (from Lovecraft) that Cthulhu wasn't so much a god as an extremely powerful servant of the old ones- a High Priest or, if you will, an alien Ipsissimus...
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Post by Ikaros on Feb 10, 2011 23:28:30 GMT -6
I always got the impression (from Lovecraft) that Cthulhu wasn't so much a god as an extremely powerful servant of the old ones- a High Priest or, if you will, an alien Ipsissimus... If one just took into account the story "The Call of Cthulhu," I would be inclined to agree. However, in his other stories (ex, "The Whisperer in Darkness") he is mentioned in the same breath as the rest of the named A:O. Then again, in "The Dunwich Horror" Lovecraft specifically says, "Great Cthulhu is Their cousin, yet can he spy Them only dimly." My point is I can see both points of view. I would say that perhaps the fact that Cthulhu is slightly different than the rest of the A:O is the reason he seems to have the greatest interaction with U:A. But that is just one cultist's opinion. By His loathsome tentacles! Ikaros |
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Post by Timotheus Prophet of Darkness on Feb 13, 2011 12:44:56 GMT -6
I always got the impression (from Lovecraft) that Cthulhu wasn't so much a god as an extremely powerful servant of the old ones- a High Priest or, if you will, an alien Ipsissimus... If one just took into account the story "The Call of Cthulhu," I would be inclined to agree. However, in his other stories (ex, "The Whisperer in Darkness") he is mentioned in the same breath as the rest of the named A:O. Then again, in "The Dunwich Horror" Lovecraft specifically says, "Great Cthulhu is Their cousin, yet can he spy Them only dimly." My point is I can see both points of view. I would say that perhaps the fact that Cthulhu is slightly different than the rest of the A:O is the reason he seems to have the greatest interaction with U:A. But that is just one cultist's opinion. By His loathsome tentacles! Ikaros Lovecraft from my readings never strictly catagorized Cthulhu and his kind,I always got the feeling Cthulhu was an alien Being yet that Lovecraft was also kinda hedging abit on just what Cthulhu really is. |
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Post by boksmutant on Feb 14, 2011 1:58:57 GMT -6
In line of authority:
#1 FBE-It is in & throughout all things. Its the top dog with with no care for something as small as us humans. It is an epic being that keeps the whole universe in mind.
#2 Azathoth-Pretty much the physical embodiment of the FBE, he is the crazed, screaming voice of the FBE that Cthulhu & other equal entities listen to for advice. It is how they "feel" the FBE & its purpose.
#3 Cthulhu-He's the guy that's a jack of all trades,good at all,but only an expert in a few. Other Gods like Yog-sothoth are specialized at specific things & so they all get along on a more or less equal level. But Cthulhu does seem to be the big brother to the rest. Or at least the guy with the most contacts lol.
This is a bit cut & dry, but my understanding.
I would relate the FBE to a house. The house being(universe B) that's filled with rooms & ultimate truth. In these rooms are the mythos greats(Nyarlathotep, Yog-sothoth the whole gang), Pretty much all Gods that lead to ascension.
Cthulhu is like the crazy scientist uncle that roams from room to room asking for a paper clip & a stick of gum yelling about how he "found the answer",before he rush's out just as fast as he came in. No one God knows what he is doing, but hears reports of his strange successes in his experiments. All other Gods are relegated to their rooms & the worlds they have built around themselves. Each of them able to intervene on our dimension(Thanks to the fucked up reasons they can't talk to us via the internet lol. Or something close to it.
So that's how I see Cthulhu. He's the guy who knows everybody & can go from room to room asking opinions & borrowing equipment to make shit happen that the others can't. Since he is asleep, you could equate that to being bared from the internet(effecting our dimension), till he rises that is.
But he does piss of a lot of the other inhabitants of the house(Lesser Gods) to the point that they ban together & tell him he's not wanted.
In the case of our earth history, it would be like a Lesser God sneaking in to a small, spare room with a lap top & setting up a new online account(Earth life). Cthulhu realizing this is an important room in relation to the house, says fuck you & moves in too. The Lesser Gods get Chtulhu's account canceled after a small war, now its just us & the lesser Gods in this tiny room. BUT, Cthulhu still has his friends & is able to hack-in & influence us from his own devices.
Cthulhu could be seen as the guy who always knows whats going on in the house,& can move around it freely.
Im trying to come up with a workable scenario that makes sense of the vastness of it,but I know I'm missing something.
Awake!
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Post by nyrlthtp on Feb 20, 2011 21:44:47 GMT -6
Many of you have told me that {Cthulhu} and Satan are the same entity. ... more often have i noticed that the comparison is made between Nyarlathotep (aka The Black Man) and Satan. What about the other gods? Are they all lumped in as well? I've always had the belief that they are different gods .... there's some confusion afoot. the character of these entities as described within the fiction of Lovecraft is of demonic or corrosive entities, even though he referred to them, or his characters did, as 'gods', 'elder gods', 'ancient ones', 'ancient gods', etc. your query takes the form of theology, and thus may be a cultic check-in. as i am not one of your cult, i may be excused for issuing a plainly unorthodox reply. spirits, gods, demons, elementals, faeries, titans, asuras, devas, dragons, djinns, augoeides, et al are interior to consciousness and without distinct and specific discreteness. as such, all such intelligences are neither predictably 'lumped in' or discernable one from another, since they are internal configurations of variable mind. there is speculation that interiorly these somehow connect up one individual to another, but i see no evidence supporting this assertion. the best we can do is to explain what commonalities people have in their expressions about their imagination or consciousness and coordinate with them as part of a cult doing rites of variable effect in the hopes of resonance and advance. generalizations beyond this are not only liable to be erroneous, but self-delusory in the long-term. if one's aim is to wake up, as is said of this and other cults, then clutching tightly to both zealous and skeptical rails of the Hot Ride Into Hell is liable to more quickly lead to our breakthrough and emergence from within the shells of ourselves. |
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Post by Satan's Avenger on Feb 21, 2011 2:24:56 GMT -6
Many of you have told me that Cthulu and Satan are the same entity. I have a question about that. What about the other gods? Are they all lumped in as well? In answer the above question - Satan IS NOT CTHULHU. The word 'Satan' means 'opposer' or 'opposite' to God. God comes form the Anglosaxon word GUD which means Good. Theoretically all gods are GOOD whilst all SATANS are the opposite, or EVIL. Evil means Darkness, the absence of Light. God and Satan are descriptive titles, not real names of deities. In reality Satan as we know him is the Elder god Nergal who is also known as Hades, or Mars and resides in the underworld and feeds on fear. He married Ereshkigal the twin sister to Inanna ( The Queen of Heaven). The god Nanna is the Moon god Sin, the Muslims worship as Allah. He also is the same deity people today know as Jehovah, or Yahweh as the Israelites knew him. Jehovah is the anglicised derivative of the Tetragramaton - YHWH and known as the first born of the Zones, the Ancient of Days. Like all the heavenly Elder gods, he requires love, devotion and prayers for sustenance as well as blood sacrifices. The reality is - the amount of real gods in creation you can count on one hand, that is how few exist. All the Elder gods are related and not whole. They rely on feeding on prayers to sustain themselves. They are also known as the ELs, or Elohim. As for Cthulhu he is the Lord of the Deep Ones and the one left in charge after Tiamat's death. The eternal sleep of Cthulhu is known as a Micronism, which was a spell the Elder gods placed on these Old Ones after the first war. Cthulhu is a single eyed cycloptic octopedian sea beast. He is known in Biblical scripture as the Great Beast, which is sometimes confused with the Greek story of the Kraken. Satan's association with the Old Ones is rather loose at best, being circumstantial rather than a real tie. As he is an Elohim he is also seen as an enemy to the Old Ones. But he serves a very useful purpose within the Covenant - that's another story for another post. I hope this clears up some confusion. |
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Post by I AM the Way on Feb 21, 2011 11:28:54 GMT -6
Many of you have told me that Cthulu and Satan are the same entity. I have a question about that. What about the other gods? Are they all lumped in as well? In answer the above question - Satan IS NOT CTHULHU. The word 'Satan' means 'opposer' or 'opposite' to God. God comes form the Anglosaxon word GUD which means Good. Theoretically all gods are GOOD whilst all SATANS are the opposite, or EVIL. Evil means Darkness, the absence of Light. God and Satan are descriptive titles, not real names of deities. In reality Satan as we know him is the Elder god Nergal who is also known as Hades, or Mars and resides in the underworld and feeds on fear. He married Ereshkigal the twin sister to Inanna ( The Queen of Heaven). The god Nanna is the Moon god Sin, the Muslims worship as Allah. He also is the same deity people today know as Jehovah, or Yahweh as the Israelites knew him. Jehovah is the anglicised derivative of the Tetragramaton - YHWH and known as the first born of the Zones, the Ancient of Days. Like all the heavenly Elder gods, he requires love, devotion and prayers for sustenance as well as blood sacrifices. The reality is - the amount of real gods in creation you can count on one hand, that is how few exist. All the Elder gods are related and not whole. They rely on feeding on prayers to sustain themselves. They are also known as the ELs, or Elohim. As for Cthulhu he is the Lord of the Deep Ones and the one left in charge after Tiamat's death. The eternal sleep of Cthulhu is known as a Micronism, which was a spell the Elder gods placed on these Old Ones after the first war. Cthulhu is a single eyed cycloptic octopedian sea beast. He is known in Biblical scripture as the Great Beast, which is sometimes confused with the Greek story of the Kraken. Satan's association with the Old Ones is rather loose at best, being circumstantial rather than a real tie. As he is an Elohim he is also seen as an enemy to the Old Ones. But he serves a very useful purpose within the Covenant - that's another story for another post. I hope this clears up some confusion.
For the record, that kind of jumbled cross-pollination which many occultists are certain of is exactly what I'm trying to capture/parody in Necronomicon Satanis.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis
Ipsissimus
Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Feb 26, 2011 23:56:53 GMT -6
So many theories! Well I just realized something. I really don't need any clarification on anything as belief is reality correct? In which case, I think they'd better serve purposes as separate entities. So no! Cthulu is not Satan! Case closed...
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Post by Timotheus Prophet of Darkness on Mar 14, 2011 14:37:08 GMT -6
Many of you have told me that Cthulu and Satan are the same entity. I have a question about that. What about the other gods? Are they all lumped in as well? I've always had the belief that they are different gods, but I'd really like some clarification here if you would be so kind? Well this probably will not be a popular post but I take the Konstantinos viewpoint about the ancient Ones/Great Old Ones. And I qoute: "I utterly disagree with any attempts at codifying the Mthos beings.They are truly,utterly,hopelessly-and any other adverbs you care to add in honor of Lovecraft-alien.Coming from other stars or even galaxies as they do,how can the Old Ones be attributed to the energies in our solar system?'" That can also in my opinion be aimed at the varooius deities humans have believed in over the ages as wel my fellow cultists how can we link Cthulhu with Satan? To try and link Cthulhu or any of the Old Ones with any of the deitie figures from any of mans religions is in fact a attempt to understand beings that are alien to us in every facet of the term from their drives and motivations right down to their concepts of morality,right wrong,etc etc is in a sence trying to limit alien foirces and beings and to define them in a way that we can understand and hence control to a degree or at least reason with and lets face it the are beyond our reasoning powers. Now before you go to saying so is satan think of this making pact with Satan or demons is not selling your soul but making a contract with him/ where he/they help you with such and such and in turn you do such and suchIn short you are bargianing and that uses human reason and logic to do,,where as the Old Ones are beyond our logic and reason and does what pleases and benifits them.. |
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matthaeus
Adeptus
Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 21
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Post by matthaeus on Mar 14, 2011 14:53:57 GMT -6
For the record, that kind of jumbled cross-pollination which many occultists are certain of is exactly what I'm trying to capture/parody in Necronomicon Satanis. Sort of reminds me of the "atheist faith healer" paradigm I've heard some use. But maybe I just hang around too many chaos magicians. No man may cometh unto Yog-Sothoth, but by him! |
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Mar 18, 2011 16:00:46 GMT -6
Well Timotheus. You have my support brother! In any case, I actually did make a pact with Satan once upon a time and he had the courtesy to show me that the world was much bigger than previously imagined and even explained to me why such compacts weren't really necessary. Indeed! And now I've resigned myself to my fate. I must find out just how far down the rabbit hole goes, and I doubt I'll really be the same person when I come back up...
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Post by Timotheus Prophet of Darkness on Mar 26, 2011 14:16:32 GMT -6
Well Timotheus. You have my support brother! In any case, I actually did make a pact with Satan once upon a time and he had the courtesy to show me that the world was much bigger than previously imagined and even explained to me why such compacts weren't really necessary. Indeed! And now I've resigned myself to my fate. I must find out just how far down the rabbit hole goes, and I doubt I'll really be the same person when I come back up... You're welcome. Oh and hold on tight because it's going to be one hell of a ride down that rabbit hole  |
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