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Post by sin on Apr 29, 2009 10:36:47 GMT -6
This is why it's tiresome to argue with people on the internet. Society is predicated upon the social contract into which every person is cultivated. We do not stop at a red light to please others but because we recognise stopping at traffic lights is a correct strategy for functional transportation. I recommend you read Hobbes, Rousseau, Locke, Bacon, More. Smith, Bentham etc. on the social contract. Tiresome? Then why bother apologist1? Surely you recognize a gaff when you read it, since you are of superior intelligence than us lowly cultists right? Yes, I understand the social contract for the organization and functionality of a working society; however this has little to do with Sin. Is it a 'Sin' to drive through a traffic light and cause an accident? Or is it a 'Sin' to cause the accident, wind up in jail and damage your personal property? Really? I'm sure you understand symbolism and metaphor - obviously the 'Sin' here is you missed the mark. Why do you hope this? Do you genuinely care how I view the world and my position in it? Seems to me you spend an awful lot of time trying to psycho-analyze this cult, yet you truly have no academic interest in what makes this cult work, and the usefulness of it's theology. Is it really? I don't think so. Perhaps such ideologies are held by Iconoclasts. There is structure in some regard yes, but it's also challenged as well as severed on a regular basis - which is what holds the ideology together. Free-thought and individualism. Surely you realize this is just a matter of self-labeling? I could easily call myself a mushroom and say "I've always been a mushroom, I was born a mushroom". This statement speaks volumes to me about your ideas Apologis1. Unrefined? Who decides what is refined? Lustful, and this is a negative attribute of man? Greedy, again, negative? Greed is a motivator. Selfish, negative? Selfishness perceived as negative is a social conditioning, one that I for one wish to destroy. Let it burn. Spirituality is certainly a commodity as well as 'technology; when you consider what society attempts to pin-point as 'spiritual'. If there is ridicule of specific human behavior is it is due to the examination of these behaviors. Why must we conform? Why must we hold the same ideas? What purpose does it serve? Are you one of those 'if we just.... we can find peace?' Peace my friend is a dream. One that has never existed. No one can really say what 'peace' is like. Have we ever been a peaceful species? We are animals. What happens when you keep an animal in a cage for far too long? Either its spirit will be broken, or it rages until it breaks out and destroys its capture. You are suggesting that we lay like broken animals in a cage. We seek to break from the cage and destroy our captures.
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Post by sorrowking on May 10, 2009 8:02:49 GMT -6
I could easily call myself a mushroom and say "I've always been a mushroom, I was born a mushroom Hahahaha! There is so much I could say about the above discussion but I really feel compelled to comment on this one line. Its the idiot in me that seeks frivolous laughs. I call myself a mushroom because at work I am kept in the dark and fed shit. There! comment over. Please continue.
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Post by monitor613 on May 18, 2009 16:56:07 GMT -6
maybe apologist is trying to be a... uh... devil's advocate. they tend to bring perspective, which is good. but i know you can do that without being a dick. so maybe he's just a dick who resembles a Devil's Advocate.
either way. what/ev.
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Post by sin on May 19, 2009 12:59:42 GMT -6
I call myself a mushroom because at work I am kept in the dark and fed shit. There! comment over. Please continue. OOoohhh the visuals. Is it just me, or do mushrooms look like cocks?
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Post by glade on May 19, 2009 13:15:57 GMT -6
Nope, not just you. Looks like cocks to me. Interesting.
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on May 19, 2009 18:58:41 GMT -6
yep very cock-esq
at first when i scrolled down and just saw the image, i was like"oh cora'sahn has plush penises... naturally"
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Post by sin on May 20, 2009 6:21:17 GMT -6
Maybe I should expand my pussy puppets into penis puppets.
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Post by glade on May 20, 2009 17:04:45 GMT -6
I'd buy both. Sounds like a good idea.
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Post by carnalkiller9 on May 20, 2009 20:05:19 GMT -6
"There are no moral phenomena at all, but only a moral interpretation of phenomena." -- Friedrich Nietzsche I am new to this forum perhaps i should state my opinion on evil. Personaly i view evil as the non-conformidy of the world a deadly diabolical force which we all hold the ability to live without rules or laws is a powerfull asset, because let's face it we all hate rules deep down and all they do is restrain us. rules have been around for generations i can't think of a single time when we lived without them this is unfortunate, however one dosen't need rules or any kind of morality in general, this may be difficult for some to grasp but for some like me it comes natural, evil to me fits these characteristics take it or leave it.
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Post by sin on May 21, 2009 7:17:03 GMT -6
"There are no moral phenomena at all, but only a moral interpretation of phenomena." -- Friedrich Nietzsche Welcome to the forum. I would like to clarify your statement. So you believe that 'evil' is non-conformity? Is it 'good' to conform to societal standards and modes of behavior? Rules are intended to keep order; however I believe that worthy humans who use logic and intellect would have no need for 'order'. There would be a natural organization out of chaos; provided you are not dealing with munts. I agree. This has been proven time and time again. There was a study with lab-rats that demonstrated this clearly. There were (2) cages set up, one rat in each. Rat A, was outfitted with a device that would give it a little zap each time that Rat B ate from it's food dish. After 2 or 3 times, Rat B caught on to what was happening and refused to eat from it's dish. It had a genuine concern for his partner in the next cage. It refused to eat to the point of starvation. Why would Rat B be concerned with Rat A? This experiment was conducted to demonstrate that personal morality is resident in all creatures void of religion, and dogma (rules). What three characteristics specifically? Non-conformity? Not following rules? Personal morality? Please clarify and elaborate. Cora'Sahn
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Post by glade on May 21, 2009 9:53:12 GMT -6
Why must we conform. We also can be good without god.
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Post by LostSoul on Jun 3, 2009 10:43:02 GMT -6
Evil is a perception.
Each of us have our own view point as to what is evil.
One person mentioned laziness...Definitely would consider that a great sin(sadly, one I am heavily afflicted by).
But, in the end; I think even Fredrick would say; that it's all perception.
So, what be your perception?
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Post by Zirna'ritee-sigth on Jan 22, 2010 6:19:39 GMT -6
Here is a snippet of information I came across on the internet.
Etymology of the Word "Evil" By Gary Amirault
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- According to the Dictionary of Word Origins by John Ayto, the original meaning of the English word "evil" has changed considerably over the last few hundred years. Not surprising. It seems theologians have had considerable influence upon shaping words to cause us to see according to their doctrines rather than what is plainly written. Mr. Ayto writes:
"Evil" has gotten distinctly worse over the millenia. Originally it seems to have signified nothing more sinister than "uppity," and in the Old and Middle English period it meant simply "bad"; it is only in modern English that its connotations of "extreme moral wickedness" came to the fore. It probably comes ultimately from "upelo-", a derivative of the Indo-European base "upo-, under (source of Greek hupo, under, Sanskrit "upa", at, to, and English "up" and "over"), and so its underlying connotation is of "exceeding due limits, extremism. Its Germanic descendant was "ubilaz", source of German übel, evil as well as English evil."
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It is no supprise to me that when this word is used today it is always used in a negative context. This is unjust and wron g. Words are powerful and can influence so many minds. Who ever controls and defines words that are widely accepted has a certain kind of power. Like the tribal shamans. So I am taking the word evil back and making it my own. I am evil in my own way and deeds. I am evil and I sow the seeds. I am evil so let me be. I am evil so set me free.
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Jan 22, 2010 9:30:01 GMT -6
Here is a snippet of information I came across on the internet. Etymology of the Word "Evil" By Gary Amirault -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- According to the Dictionary of Word Origins by John Ayto, the original meaning of the English word "evil" has changed considerably over the last few hundred years. Not surprising. It seems theologians have had considerable influence upon shaping words to cause us to see according to their doctrines rather than what is plainly written. Mr. Ayto writes: "Evil" has gotten distinctly worse over the millenia. Originally it seems to have signified nothing more sinister than "uppity," and in the Old and Middle English period it meant simply "bad"; it is only in modern English that its connotations of "extreme moral wickedness" came to the fore. It probably comes ultimately from "upelo-", a derivative of the Indo-European base "upo-, under (source of Greek hupo, under, Sanskrit "upa", at, to, and English "up" and "over"), and so its underlying connotation is of "exceeding due limits, extremism. Its Germanic descendant was "ubilaz", source of German übel, evil as well as English evil." ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is no supprise to me that when this word is used today it is always used in a negative context. This is unjust and wron g. Words are powerful and can influence so many minds. Who ever controls and defines words that are widely accepted has a certain kind of power. Like the tribal shamans. So I am taking the word evil back and making it my own. I am evil in my own way and deeds. I am evil and I sow the seeds. I am evil so let me be. I am evil so set me free. Putting it that way, WE are EVIL because our will and awareness is UP and OVER the will and awareness of the sleeper. Our level of peering at reality is EXTREME compaired to their's. So THAT would perhaps make us evil if you use the origion of the word as a root. My wife and people at work are ALWAYS saying i'm evil hehe, but still generally well liked. It is our TRUE nature to be EVIL. Being GOOD is nothing but being placid and compliant. His Ichor cleanses the sins of mankind.. Esbara'Kesh
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Post by A'Zodul F'eid on Jan 23, 2010 1:01:59 GMT -6
Is morality not completely subjective? Good and evil seem very fickle things. I'd have a hard time imagining Cthulhu twirling his villainous handlebar mustache whilst chuckling manically and planning his foul deeds. Evil is a label for the behavior that an individual or a group frowns upon. The Catholic church doesn't like incest so they proclaim it to be evil (when in reality it's probably more akin to stupid and a bit trashy)The church also frowns upon us (not saying that we are like incest though) therefore to them we are evil. Granted most of probably do have some malicious intent, but as things stand no one is completely black or white. I choose to not worship blindly and to try to awaken. If that makes me evil then I just don't get morality at all.
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Post by darkdescent13 on May 28, 2010 0:41:28 GMT -6
The word 'evil' has certainly been raped and overused by the right hand way of thinking for centuries. I looked up the word on the Internet, at the free online dictionary. It's first meaning is morally bad or wrong--which, as everyone here's been discussing for some time now, is very subjective and without any true meaning. The second definition is causing ruin, injury, or harm. Again, this definition is very vague, as it doesn't even say whether or not such harmful acts should be intentional or not before they are considered evil. If they are not intentional, then everybody in the world is, or has done some very evil things without even knowing it.
It is impossible to go through life without harming others. Even intentionally. We're human, an animal currently at the top of the food chain. It is only normal for us to do the things we do, including harming others. It is therefore my own personal belief that the word 'evil' is a made up thing. It is used only to separate the worthy from the herd.
Christians would consider me evil simply by the things I read, the music I listen to, the movies I watch, and for the things I write. But I find much joy in all my ventures. So who's right? I am, that's who! Because it's my life, and if people want to try and intervene, therefore hurting me by trying to destroy the things I enjoy, then perhaps they should look the word 'evil' up in the dictionary.
Even then, I don't think it would matter. Christians are very Satanic in their own ways. They do what they want, however they want, even by blowing up abortion clinics.
And that's my two cents!
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Post by LostSoul on May 29, 2010 14:22:54 GMT -6
There is no evil...Only intentions; and those change day by day; minute by minute...
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Post by Sarak G'hash on May 29, 2010 18:08:58 GMT -6
There is no evil...Only intentions; and those change day by day; minute by minute... Tell me about it!!! lol Awake!
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Post by darkdescent13 on May 31, 2010 16:40:41 GMT -6
Sometimes it changes second by second! lol
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Post by LostSoul on Jun 1, 2010 12:40:46 GMT -6
Sometimes it changes second by second! lol But, seriously; no evil!
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Post by darkdescent13 on Jun 1, 2010 14:48:25 GMT -6
Evil is nothing but perception. Just like everything else in life. But I don't believe that evil exists. It's just a word.
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Post by 10kdays on Jun 1, 2010 21:01:17 GMT -6
People have motivations and goals, which they deem "good". Whatever hinders that is known as "evil".
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Post by darkdescent13 on Jun 2, 2010 3:42:35 GMT -6
People have motivations and goals, which they deem "good". Whatever hinders that is known as "evil". I really like that! ;D Is that a quote from somewhere, or is that from you?
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Post by 10kdays on Jun 2, 2010 11:42:38 GMT -6
That's mine, but I'm sure someone else has said it before.
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Post by LostSoul on Jun 2, 2010 18:44:33 GMT -6
People have motivations and goals, which they deem "good". Whatever hinders that is known as "evil". That is most definitely perception...
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Post by demonofdarkness on Jun 29, 2010 13:50:34 GMT -6
In my opinion evil has no definition because it is not the same for all people . What do you think is good it might be evil for someone and on the other hand what do you think is evil it might be good for someone .
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Jun 29, 2010 14:49:13 GMT -6
There seems to be a generally accepted idea ( but we're not about that here, right?) of good and evil. However things are rarely ever that black and white. Evil can be many things from malign intent, physical harm toward another, occult practices, darker subject manner, satanic witchery, spoiled cabbage, circus clowns, etc.
All to often people throw that word around far too casually. People are quick to call something evil before having a solid understanding of it. Evil is simply whatever seeks to go grain of established society. There is no one clear and cut definition of it because it can mean different things to different people.
To radical Islam, Western culture is evil. To Western culture radical Islam is evil because they seek to destroy our way of life.
Evil can just be something you don't like or understand.
Awake!
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Post by natalia666 on Jun 29, 2010 15:52:17 GMT -6
From a Nietzche-Existentialist point of view, there is no good or evil, there is only what is. There is no inherent meaning for something to be good or evil.
If a man murders another in cold blood, he has done just that, he has murdered him. Period. There is no good or evil to this. It is only a physical fact. Only until man declares it evil, is it evil.
Good and evil is also highly relative of course. A man who steals food to feed his family is committing an "evil sin" by the church's standard, but to others he is doing good by feeding his family.
Evil is also a petty reaction to what one does not understand. We see this in fundamentalists who call homosexuals or non-Christians "evil". They do this because a book tells them to. Above all, they do this because they do not understand the subjects. Therefore they perceive it as a threat.
In an antinomian sense, "Evil" is that which is separate from the masses, one who is Awake and pursues to empower their Will, one who goes against the "Demiurge". I say this is the most potent and pragmatic use of the term.
Personally I try to stay away from calling anything evil or good, such black/white dichotomy is troublesome. I will say there are "agreed upon" ethics and "evils" that help form a functional society, such laws against murder, rape, petaphilia, theft, etc. I say this is based on rationality rather than "inherent evils".
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Post by spiraldown13 on Jun 30, 2010 14:37:35 GMT -6
I agree with frankgorshin, that evil or sin is just another word for laziness, or selfishness. Sin is mans innability to properly choose what is right for him. Out of pure slothfullness man will make stupid, harmful decisions, that are classified as sin.
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Post by spiraldown13 on Jun 30, 2010 14:38:26 GMT -6
evil is live spelled backwards. I think we all know that thoe.
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