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Post by boksmutant on Oct 29, 2010 10:37:35 GMT -6
Love it!
I think this is a fantastic tread. Once again Master Satanis, your calm & wisdom did not falter. This is once again a total opportunity for us to see & be apart of history(CoC) in the making.
Here's my opinion:
#1 If a member of lower rank feels he was slighted by someone of a higher rank. He should speak in private to that person.
This will allow both sides to exchange there views to what ever length necessary with out upsetting the order we need to protect publicly.
And its also none of our damn business!
#2 Criticizing a person of higher rank should only be done in private.
Pay that person who's earned that rank with the respect to explain them selves further. If your lucky you both learn something.
And it will mean a hell of a lot more to both sides in the end.
Also no one wants to see a member of our Cults leadership break down crying saying how wrong he was. Might look pretty pathetic.
#3 Have you noticed that it takes our High Priest himself, or another Priest to mediate these disputes. Not good.
There leadership & wisdom is far to useful to be spent on these things. But we must also be prepared to carry on in the event of their absence. Like Priest egodiabolis said.
So I suggest appointing more "moderators". People who's job it is to play the third person in these disputes.
A lot of us would like to play the third person but feel its not our place to do so. Especially if the depute involves a member of the administration. But this is our shared forum & others should feel comfortable interjecting if they think they could shed some light on the subject. I think this would take a lot of the burden off the administration, while at the same time allowing certain, selected members, a chance to prove their(either idiotic or genius)diplomatic ability.
Some one other than administration should be expected to step up. So when a cultist steps into that debate with that little title under there avatar saying "moderator". It'll be a Que to listen, and a reminder that the entire cult is listening:)
Sure the moderator might make an ass of him self; But then again it would be a learning experience for that moderator as well.
Im not saying Id want to do it. But two or three more people that are online more often than others I think would suffice.
I don't think they even need to be all that qualified. It would be for their experience; and a Que to management that its being dealt with.
I like the title moderator & think it could use more value.
Awake!
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Post by nyrlthtp on Oct 29, 2010 16:49:53 GMT -6
If the reality that we know doesn't really exist, then why participate in it? ... 'playing along' or 'participation' is a negotiated engagement, and as you establish for yourself what is a 'baseline knowledge of the real' you may conclude what level of play or participation is proper for you. 'disconnecting' may take you beyond your current capacity for self-sustainment, so too quick a movement in that direction could result in disablement rather than freedom. becoming truly lucid is not as simple as deciding to be so. the skill of influencing the real and our experience of this is one that is learned. the rest of your questions are best answered by you with these things in mind. ...is it not of more value when the {"Awakened"} state is achieved and maintained in the heart of the urban sprawl and in spite of the 9-5 rat-race going on around us? not necessarily, no. that value will vary with the individual, their level of development, and their role with respect to the whole. Why do we feel the need to validate our existence by watching the latest TV shows, listening to the latest mainstream top 40 hits, and downloading the most popular applications? Because without doing so, we'll be left out? the problem is that we aren't doing the validating, and no such validation is truly possible, since it is an artifice contrived to provide a meaning which does not exist except as a facet of our consciousness, a self-coddling in the face of abject existential quandry. part of the effect of the Spectacle is that it offers to validate you by your service to its promotional deals, consumption of its product, and use of its marvels. ...{our shared reality} may be a prison, but do you have to let it imprison you? in some instances one has no choice, as it manifests in a variety of physical contexts, such as the dungeons of monarchs and despots, the torturous detainment compounds of heinous fascists (e.g. Guatanamo Bay Detention Camp and the CIA), and the combined constraint of society and self. we have no ability to mediate this but may struggle against it to the limits of our skill and endurance, and may need assistance along the way. |
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Post by nyrlthtp on Oct 29, 2010 17:00:35 GMT -6
...isn't it a demand of higher office that a Priest of R'lyeh must show those of a lower degree even more respect, consideration, and understanding than they show him? How can a Master become angry or punitive with a student for questioning or providing a strange or laughable or even a half-assed critique? this is weighed against your requirement elsewhere that "our two Priests of R'lyeh should be shown the proper respect which they deserve." it is sufficiently ambiguous as to what they deserve as to lend weight to insouciance and belittlement if they 'deserve' this. respectful criticism or pointing to shortcomings should be possible within the proper context and in a reasonable timing (i.e. where it makes itself manifest, or in a discussion where this is pertinent). where does it proclaim this cherishing? isn't this a weakness of a languishing, outmoded, Christian culture that it requires cordiality and the vestments of "love" even when uncalled-for? how realistic are such cherished ideals? that all depends on whether you deem it an appropriate response to undue disrespect or see it as a modicum of irritation due to mere differences of opinion. I suggest that you construct an admin-only discussion sector within this board to handle all issues possibly warranting restrictive or punitive response and achieve a consensus there before someone acts with warnings, bans, etc. ...where do we draw the line between coddling and constructive criticism? Because perception is reality, how can we objectively determine someone's intent in such a faceless and impersonal environment of text? there is a third category into which such interactions may shift: abrasive or immature moderation. the line between coddling and constructive criticism may be drawn by remarking on perceptions of insufficiency or a need for improvement without categorical demand. the line between constructive criticism and abrasive moderation may be drawn at the point where belittling, diminuitive, or dismissive characterizations are being levelled at the moderated. objective determinations of textual meaning may be had by logical analysis, reference to dictionaries, and consensual inference by those assessing the expressions emergent from participants. ...If one were to be both the plaintiff and judge, would that not be grossly unfair to the defendant? not necessarily. whether it is a triad of priests arrayed in solidarity against a disrespectful intruder judging her unfit to continue unmoderated posting or a splayed bank of disagreeing priests, some of whom may see themselves as advocating on the defendant's behalf, and one of whom offers the ultimate decision, the net effect is the same except in the former case the judging body has at least arrived at a consensus as to the facts of the matter. moderation sometimes requires the evaluator to be both plaintiff and judge, and this is fine as long as the infractions are clearly specified and attention is given to the realities of the case in question. (to HP Satanis) ...As it seems that issuing the warning and copying the officers of this organization on the warning is not the appropriate protocol, what then is? consultation with the High Priest seems in order for all near future disciplinary actions until these protocols are firmly in place and clear to all concerned. absolutely, and they ought also be allowed to appeal to a high authority privately, even if this source of authority denies an appeal. of it being an inclusive, forebearant, and broad-minded coalition. (to Alba Kalool) ...You don't think you crossed a line, but you don't know where the line is. Neither do I. I know where I perceive the line, and you know where you perceive it... perception is reality. the best that may be hoped for is a consensus amongst those who administrate as to their perceptions of the events. currently these perceptions are divergent, and so discussion about these is important in placing resolution before the cult and making it clear what is being agreed to or required, and by whom. |
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Post by xiaogui17 on Oct 29, 2010 17:14:05 GMT -6
And the Re-Railing of the Thread Award goes to... If the reality that we know doesn't really exist, then why participate in it? ... 'playing along' or 'participation' is a negotiated engagement, and as you establish for yourself what is a 'baseline knowledge of the real' you may conclude what level of play or participation is proper for you. 'disconnecting' may take you beyond your current capacity for self-sustainment, so too quick a movement in that direction could result in disablement rather than freedom. becoming truly lucid is not as simple as deciding to be so. the skill of influencing the real and our experience of this is one that is learned. the rest of your questions are best answered by you with these things in mind. not necessarily, no. that value will vary with the individual, their level of development, and their role with respect to the whole. the problem is that we aren't doing the validating, and no such validation is truly possible, since it is an artifice contrived to provide a meaning which does not exist except as a facet of our consciousness, a self-coddling in the face of abject existential quandry. part of the effect of the Spectacle is that it offers to validate you by your service to its promotional deals, consumption of its product, and use of its marvels. ...{our shared reality} may be a prison, but do you have to let it imprison you? in some instances one has no choice, as it manifests in a variety of physical contexts, such as the dungeons of monarchs and despots, the torturous detainment compounds of heinous fascists (e.g. Guatanamo Bay Detention Camp and the CIA), and the combined constraint of society and self. we have no ability to mediate this but may struggle against it to the limits of our skill and endurance, and may need assistance along the way.
Vanessa
Esoteric Wizard of the Terrible Darkness
Cult of Cthulhu
EDIT: Maybe I spoke a little too soon, although I do think your suggestion to consult the High Priest prior to disciplinary action may be a good idea.
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Post by tentaclednephilim on Oct 30, 2010 12:15:36 GMT -6
...{our shared reality} may be a prison, but do you have to let it imprison you? in some instances one has no choice, as it manifests in a variety of physical contexts, such as the dungeons of monarchs and despots, the torturous detainment compounds of heinous fascists (e.g. Guatanamo Bay Detention Camp and the CIA), and the combined constraint of society and self. we have no ability to mediate this but may struggle against it to the limits of our skill and endurance, and may need assistance along the way. [/right][/quote] Have you read Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl? He was a psychologist who was imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp & survived. He is the one came up with Existentialism. Even when your are detained you still have a certain amount of control over yourself. In the worst scenarios, you control your own attitude. Nobody can take that away from you except yourself. Viktor Frankl noticed that the people with a higher chance of survivability were the ones who had the most positive attitudes compared to others in their same situations. I think that says a lot considering how poor the conditions were in the concentration camps. |
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Post by nyrlthtp on Oct 30, 2010 15:23:53 GMT -6
Have you read Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl? ... yes, it was required reading in my High School. I can't say i was impressed. you're sure you are not mixing Frankl up with Gabriel Marcel? Frankl appears to have originated logotherapy, a type of existentialist therapy. it is important to note the spirit of liberation even when the physicalities of life shackle and curtail one's freedoms. this is not a realistic substitute, and the reason that Frankl is described as a survivor is because he survived both physically and spiritually a heinous reality we should not forget. pretending that due to his endurance and subjective emulation he was somehow 'not captured or imprisoned' would be a complete disregard for the facts. your assertions about this do not rest on realistic assessments but on hopes for achievement. people may be able to to exercise an internal control of the type you are describing. the attitude that 'nobody can take that away from you' is counter-indicated by text (also inspired by real horrors) such as Nineteen Eighty-Four, with its 'Room 101' (extra points if you can spot links between this and Lovecraft's texts!). kudos to Mr. Frankl for his achievement. may we all have the courage and fortitude to endure the far less difficult challenges we face. the point i was making was not about emulated artifices of internal fantasy which sustain one during the actuality of imprisonment, but about the fact that the physical world facilitates and sustains that internal world, and that it is precisely because of this that such an emulation becomes important. I'd agree that a positive attitude can set the stage for what might otherwise seem to be wonderworking, and it can provide for one a degree of internal power and latitude in the most trying of circumstances. what i would warn against is regarding the escapist psychosis of "The Wall" as somehow comparable to the technical and emergent achievement of "The Great Escape". |
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 30, 2010 16:07:17 GMT -6
Have you read Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl? ... yes, it was required reading in my High School. I can't say i was impressed. you're sure you are not mixing Frankl up with Gabriel Marcel? Frankl appears to have originated logotherapy, a type of existentialist therapy. it is important to note the spirit of liberation even when the physicalities of life shackle and curtail one's freedoms. this is not a realistic substitute, and the reason that Frankl is described as a survivor is because he survived both physically and spiritually a heinous reality we should not forget. pretending that due to his endurance and subjective emulation he was somehow 'not captured or imprisoned' would be a complete disregard for the facts. your assertions about this do not rest on realistic assessments but on hopes for achievement. people may be able to to exercise an internal control of the type you are describing. the attitude that 'nobody can take that away from you' is counter-indicated by text (also inspired by real horrors) such as Nineteen Eighty-Four, with its 'Room 101' (extra points if you can spot links between this and Lovecraft's texts!). kudos to Mr. Frankl for his achievement. may we all have the courage and fortitude to endure the far less difficult challenges we face. the point i was making was not about emulated artifices of internal fantasy which sustain one during the actuality of imprisonment, but about the fact that the physical world facilitates and sustains that internal world, and that it is precisely because of this that such an emulation becomes important. I'd agree that a positive attitude can set the stage for what might otherwise seem to be wonderworking, and it can provide for one a degree of internal power and latitude in the most trying of circumstances. what i would warn against is regarding the escapist psychosis of "The Wall" as somehow comparable to the technical and emergent achievement of "The Great Escape".
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis
High Priest
Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by Apsara Kamalli on Oct 30, 2010 19:35:05 GMT -6
Have you read Man's Search For Meaning by Viktor Frankl? He was a psychologist who was imprisoned in a Nazi concentration camp & survived. He is the one came up with Existentialism. Even when your are detained you still have a certain amount of control over yourself. In the worst scenarios, you control your own attitude. Nobody can take that away from you except yourself. Viktor Frankl noticed that the people with a higher chance of survivability were the ones who had the most positive attitudes compared to others in their same situations. I think that says a lot considering how poor the conditions were in the concentration camps.
Awake!
Apsara Kamalli
Esoteric Wizard of the Terrible Darkness
Cult of Cthulhu |
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 31, 2010 17:00:22 GMT -6
So what do you all think of the "moderator" position with in the Cult being more useful? Maybe hand out the position to noobs who are online all the time. Sorry, but I just dont want to loose this chance to improve something that needs fixing. Ive been corrected a couple times & thats all good. But a simple word or phase can sometimes be misplaced & ruin a conversation. I just think its important. Keep in mind we are just typing. And physical expression is almost completely lost. I say this is a perfect subject to delve into. Any ideas? Awake!
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis
High Priest
Cult of Cthulhu
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