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Post by Tehiru.Chalal on Jul 14, 2009 13:28:01 GMT -6
I have been engaged in meditation and the occult for over twenty years, and a recent conversation with a friend provoked a realization in me. My friend had commented that a certain person was studying a certain occult subject under the tutelage of one in the community with great enthusiasm and was making fair progress. What had provoked his comment to me in the course of conversation was the observation that this young person was eager to learn this or indeed any techniques they came across, but my friend was curious as to what purpose this new knowledge was going to be practically used for.
This is an unfortunate situation and bears some elaboration. In the occult traditions as in many walks of everyday life, there are those people who identify with the appearance as compared to the substance. We have all encountered individuals who relate accounts of their great learning, their many and varied accomplishments, and even their superior understanding. In the occult community this often manifests as frantically attempting to learn as many techniques or magickal traditions as possible. Do not misunderstand me; the acquisition of knowledge is commendable and to be encouraged, and people who dedicate their time to acquiring knowledge better themselves in a variety of ways. However, what is more important than the gross knowledge that one can accumulate is the integration of that knowledge and assimilation of this learning. While almost every occult practitioner is at least passing familiar with a few traditions, I would suggest that concentration on a few subjects in depth is ultimately more useful than a Jack of All Trades who learns the superficial details of many at the expense of deep knowledge of the few or the one. This certain person was interested, but not in the learning; instead, this person was interested in acquiring banners and flags to show their accomplishments, be it a degree from a nature religion, a recognition of familiarity with Diaspora traditions, background in various ceremonial traditions or ancient theurgic traditions.
The drive for titles, degrees and/or certificates was the driving mentality, not the acquisition of knowledge for assimilation and use. By identifying with the external trappings so far as they pertain to recognition by others or the even more dangerous identification of these trappings to the sense of self, this individual demonstrated a basic lack of understanding. The self is not your persona, your emotions or your intellect; your true self is a awareness independent of anything that you can perceive. More directly, whatever you perceive cannot be you.
Let me be clear so there is no misunderstanding between us. Real magick is internal, and concerns the path to the self. What people call Magick is not Magick. The tools, techniques and rituals, even faith are parlor tricks you pick up along the way. At best, these tools, techniques and rituals give rise to siddhis, but even siddhis are byproducts of development and not the goal. Concentration on the external or the parallel may indeed increase your occult worth in the perception of others (or yourself) but by its very nature is self limiting. Magick is a tool that one uses not for inflating the sense of self, but as a tool for realizing the self.
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Post by I AM the Way on Jul 14, 2009 14:15:07 GMT -6
or escaping from it.
VS
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Post by Tehiru Chalal on Jul 14, 2009 17:41:14 GMT -6
[quote author=admin board=reality thread=2570 post=22417
or escaping from it.
VS[/quote]
Yes, magick does attract those who really aren't suited to it. Yet.
That is the price some pay.
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Post by I AM the Way on Jul 14, 2009 18:57:06 GMT -6
that is true; however, i was referring to the benefits of leaving one's self behind... the false self. sometimes, we have to carve our mask away until only an unrecognizable skeleton is left to stare back at us.
VS
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Jul 14, 2009 20:11:53 GMT -6
Ia Ia! Hold the obsidian mirror up to the soul, and look at your reflection in the eyes of your reflection and bask in the horror you gaze upon. For it is not you that you stare at, but your I that is the Great Old Ones, the part of them that dwells within us all. Know then, that you are looking up the Divine Darkness.
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Post by LostSoul on Jul 14, 2009 23:14:02 GMT -6
So, what you're saying Tehiru; is that it should be quality over quanity?
I can get on board with that...
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Post by sin on Jul 15, 2009 7:00:14 GMT -6
I can relate to this.
The age old argument that the spelling of Magic/Magick is purposeful, in that it differenciates the 'true magick' from stage magic. I see no difference at all. Both are tools for creating alter realities. They are one in the same. The very act of changing the spelling and perpetuating the idea that there's a difference, is a slight of hand. A lie. A manipulation. And people fall for it every time.
Magic is a tool for growth and development, human psychology masked as something else. Another slight of hand.
People need fantasy and romanticism to delude themselves into believing things. They create these illusions, so that they can do the 'The Work' that must be done. The Work, that is otherwise boring and mundane. Throw in super-powers, a costume and a few boogeymen - and well, now The Work is interesting, intriguing, and Eldritch. You become more passionate about The Work. Rather than procrastinating, and being passive - you have conditioned yourself to believe this Work is special, and important. You are active in your own evolution.
I believe in Magic, though I may define it differently than most people.
Those that call me Charlatan...I hold up a mirror and they see truth. The truth, that my ideas poke holes in their fantasies. The costumes fall off, and what is revealed is that they are no different than the Charlatan they so detest. False selves revealed, and true selves healed.
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Post by Tehiru.Chalal on Jul 15, 2009 21:00:18 GMT -6
Carving away? Hardly. The process is disassociating oneself from the things that are not the self. If we think it, it is not us. If we feel it, it is not us. Letting go is the simplest thing in theory but the hardest in practice. |
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Post by Tehiru.Chalal on Jul 15, 2009 21:04:37 GMT -6
Poetic, but it sounds a bit gratuituous. If you are looking at your reflection, it isn't you. Your body, like your thoughts, your emotions, your drives and your body is not you. I like the cyclopean imagery as much as anyone and probably much more, but I'd rather hear what is really on your mind.
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Post by Tehiru.Chalal on Jul 15, 2009 21:08:24 GMT -6
So, what you're saying Tehiru; is that it should be quality over quanity? I can get on board with that... That's correct, but not quite complete. It's better to be familiar with a broad range but to strive to have deep knowedge of at least one or two subjects. If you know a smidgen about a thousand traditions, how can you possibly get the true meanings or be able to actually be able to make a true judgement? Also, if you are chasing titles and knowledge to make yourself look "better" to others or yourself, what Master does that serve? |
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Post by Tehiru.Chalal on Jul 15, 2009 21:13:39 GMT -6
Please be specific. I would appreciate a definition of Magic/Magick as it pertains to you. As for the Charlatan observation, you are referring to the Persona, or more specifically known as the Early, Middle and Mature Egoic. Can you expand your observation to encompass more? |
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Post by sin on Jul 16, 2009 7:18:37 GMT -6
Please be specific. I would appreciate a definition of Magic/Magick as it pertains to you. As for the Charlatan observation, you are referring to the Persona, or more specifically known as the Early, Middle and Mature Egoic. Can you expand your observation to encompass more? Certainly. I see no difference between Magic and Magic(k); though people spend a hell of a lot of time and energy trying to forge the division. Magic is the human psyche in action. The power of will. The greeks called the psyche the 'breath of life'; and if you contemplate that idea, I think you will find that its appropriate. When Crowley spoke of Love as the Law, and that Love under will - he was talking about the power we all hold. Our psyche in action. Whether you send memes out into the universe, or carry them there yourself - you are taking action to accomplish your goals, your dreams and that often takes minions. When you influence a person, and that person assists you in your task - you have created a minion to do your bidding. This could be as simple as your best friend or an associate 'taking care of' something for you, and you didn't even need to ask. That influence is undeniable, we are always under influence. By others, and by ourselves. We create realities, we exist in them for a time, then we change them again. Alchemy and Magic - from the mundane to the abstract. Magic is a word that we apply to these ideas. It creates that romanticism that people require to step outside of the perceived reality and build a new one. In our insane realities, we are masters of the universe, powerful magicians and mad alchemists. We slip into our 'characters' like we slip into our costumes. We are cartoons, in a funny cartoon land. As for being labeled a 'Charlatan' it is because I hold these ideas, and I use human psychology to 'read' people, my inherent human gifts vs. believing it comes from deity, guides or some other source. The source is me. When speaking to me, and asking me questions about my practices in person - I will give truthful answers, because I believe in them with a whole heart. Others that practice what they call 'the craft' see this as being a Charlatan. I am often amused by these labels applied to me. |
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Post by Tehiru.Chalal on Jul 16, 2009 10:34:07 GMT -6
>I see no difference between Magic and Magic(k); though people spend a hell of a lot of time and energy trying to forge the division.
Granted. I prefer the "k" for the simple reason I was initially trained that way, and it appears more elegant to my eye.
>Magic is the human psyche in action. The power of will.
By psyche do you speak of the persona, the identity, or what? The will is not the psyche.
>When Crowley spoke of Love as the Law, and that Love under will - he was talking about the power we all hold. Our psyche in action.
Was he? I feel he was speaking of Love as a necessary consequence of development. A development that requires both the conscious and magickal wills but is in itself entirely non-magickal. I feel he was referring to a fully individuated personality that has disassociated themselves from the divisions internal and external to himself. I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts.
>Whether you send memes out into the universe, or carry them there yourself - you are taking action to accomplish your goals, your dreams and that often takes minions. When you influence a person, and that person assists you in your task - you have created a minion to do your bidding.
This could be as simple as your best friend or an associate 'taking care of' something for you, and you didn't even need to ask.
That influence is undeniable, we are always under influence. By others, and by ourselves. We create realities, we exist in them for a time, then we change them again. Alchemy and Magic - from the mundane to the abstract."
That is identification.
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Post by sin on Jul 16, 2009 10:49:38 GMT -6
>Magic is the human psyche in action. The power of will. By psyche do you speak of the persona, the identity, or what? The will is not the psyche. I do believe I addressed that. "The greeks called the psyche the 'breath of life'; and if you contemplate that idea, I think you will find that its appropriate." Psyche=Consciousness, that consciousness in action. Yes, I believe he was. Think of Liber AL, and his life's work of Thelema. Thelema aside, the message in Liber AL is quite clear to me. You are conscious of yourself, you have the power to create an ecstatic existence, so use your power! Let your 'passions' (Love) work for you (Will)! Make me under the stars! Every man and woman is a star! Without Love (passion) you have nothing to drive your will. This is why Love IS the Law. If you take nothing at all from Crowley but that alone - it's quite valuable. 93/93 That is consciousness working. I believe identity is a separate issue. |
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Jul 16, 2009 19:49:46 GMT -6
I wasn't talking about the reflection of your physical features...
I meant it how I said it, and that's open to interpretation.
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Post by nixx on Dec 13, 2009 6:32:31 GMT -6
I can relate to this. The age old argument that the spelling of Magic/Magick is purposeful, in that it differenciates the 'true magick' from stage magic. I see no difference at all. Both are tools for creating alter realities. They are one in the same. The very act of changing the spelling and perpetuating the idea that there's a difference, is a slight of hand. A lie. A manipulation. And people fall for it every time. Magic is a tool for growth and development, human psychology masked as something else. Another slight of hand. People need fantasy and romanticism to delude themselves into believing things. They create these illusions, so that they can do the 'The Work' that must be done. The Work, that is otherwise boring and mundane. Throw in super-powers, a costume and a few boogeymen - and well, now The Work is interesting, intriguing, and Eldritch. You become more passionate about The Work. Rather than procrastinating, and being passive - you have conditioned yourself to believe this Work is special, and important. You are active in your own evolution. I believe in Magic, though I may define it differently than most people. Those that call me Charlatan...I hold up a mirror and they see truth. The truth, that my ideas poke holes in their fantasies. The costumes fall off, and what is revealed is that they are no different than the Charlatan they so detest. False selves revealed, and true selves healed. I can definitely relate to this as well. The power is out there, but as yet undefined until will is applied to it to give it form. "Reality" is in constant flux governed by will of the consensus & those individual wills strong enough to influence it. Whether someone accomplishes this by an act of sheer will or takes on a role & accomplishes this through an act of ritualistic psychodrama, the result is still the same if successful. Magick is an act of self deception that puts us into the place of our ultimate "truth"; that "truth" is that we forge our own reality & the sparks of that forging effects all other realities in minute ways, but even this is a lie to some. The realization of this is enough to send most screaming in terror; I like to hear the screams, lol.... |
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Post by Sarak G'hash on Dec 13, 2009 8:50:09 GMT -6
I can relate to this. The age old argument that the spelling of Magic/Magick is purposeful, in that it differenciates the 'true magick' from stage magic. I see no difference at all. Both are tools for creating alter realities. They are one in the same. The very act of changing the spelling and perpetuating the idea that there's a difference, is a slight of hand. A lie. A manipulation. And people fall for it every time. Magic is a tool for growth and development, human psychology masked as something else. Another slight of hand. People need fantasy and romanticism to delude themselves into believing things. They create these illusions, so that they can do the 'The Work' that must be done. The Work, that is otherwise boring and mundane. Throw in super-powers, a costume and a few boogeymen - and well, now The Work is interesting, intriguing, and Eldritch. You become more passionate about The Work. Rather than procrastinating, and being passive - you have conditioned yourself to believe this Work is special, and important. You are active in your own evolution. I believe in Magic, though I may define it differently than most people. Those that call me Charlatan...I hold up a mirror and they see truth. The truth, that my ideas poke holes in their fantasies. The costumes fall off, and what is revealed is that they are no different than the Charlatan they so detest. False selves revealed, and true selves healed. I can definitely relate to this as well. The power is out there, but as yet undefined until will is applied to it to give it form. "Reality" is in constant flux governed by will of the consensus & those individual wills strong enough to influence it. Whether someone accomplishes this by an act of sheer will or takes on a role & accomplishes this through an act of ritualistic psychodrama, the result is still the same if successful. Magick is an act of self deception that puts us into the place of our ultimate "truth"; that "truth" is that we forge our own reality & the sparks of that forging effects all other realities in minute ways, but even this is a lie to some. The realization of this is enough to send most screaming in terror; I like to hear the screams, lol.... Bravo!!! You both should get a standing ovation for this discussion!!!!!!!! |
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Post by sin on Dec 15, 2009 11:13:51 GMT -6
Takes a bow :-)
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Post by nixx on Dec 17, 2009 11:11:18 GMT -6
'Sank you very much!
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