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Post by Timotheus Prophet of Darkness on Apr 28, 2010 9:08:31 GMT -6
Ok what do you think of combining the Cthulhu Mythos with other religions and how could one best go about doing this? The reason i as is that a freind of mine thats 18 still lives with the parental units,they are catholic,and I just introduced him the the Cthulhu Mythos and not just as fiction ;D.
he read the book i have from Chaoisum on the Pastores and was wondering how he could best combine the Mythos with the religion of his family so he can worship the Old Ones without getting caught?
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Post by maguni on Apr 29, 2010 7:01:36 GMT -6
Ok what do you think of combining the Cthulhu Mythos with other religions and how could one best go about doing this? The reason i as is that a freind of mine thats 18 still lives with the parental units,they are catholic,and I just introduced him the the Cthulhu Mythos and not just as fiction ;D. he read the book i have from Chaoisum on the Pastores and was wondering how he could best combine the Mythos with the religion of his family so he can worship the Old Ones without getting caught? Ok dude, here's my concern. If you want to be a genuine Christian, you must abstain from worshipping other Gods. You must worship God and God alone. We know this from Exodus 20:3 where it states: " You shall have no other Gods before me."If memory serves, this was the first commandment, which is actually a testament to its significance. I would also like to bring up the following quote 1 Corinthians 8: 4-6: "So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one. For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."This clearly shows that there are other "gods' in this universe and besides, my own research into religion, mysticism and occult lore confirms this. There are other "gods" out there, but yet they pail in comparison to the One True God, for He created them; they did not create Him. Even all their "power" put together cannot even come close to God's might; they are all powerless in light of him. It seems that these "gods" serve and perform a function in this universe; however God leaves them to their own devices, and instead focuses on his children. My point is that yes, there are other powers in the spiritual realm, but my own logic tells me, do not be mistaken to believe that the Old Ones are said powers. They are fictional aliens (not "gods" as this cult purports). Performing rituals for them, glorifying them, praying to them is akin to doing that very same thing for Peter Pan. That is not to say however that one cannot amalgmate God's word with the cthulhu mythos and coalesce these clashes of idealogies into a (disturbed) paradigm (i.e worship both God and the Old Ones) for you can (since that can be expected from chaos magickians in spite of the fact that such a thing as I described would be unexpected) just that it is severely wrong and a theological fallacy. Good Day
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Post by Papertiger on Apr 29, 2010 15:58:50 GMT -6
Maguni,
Your courteous tone and respect for Timotheus' request is most welcome here, as is your opinion. You are most right: any such marriage of creeds would be anathema to the core tenets of Catholicism. For reasons you describe: yes perhaps. But also in the purely academic sense, such that knowledge of either religion provides.
Conversely, incorporating Catholicism into our Work could be... Possible... *muses* ...But would perhaps intentionally disregard the core principal of Awakening, and would ultimately turn your religious curiosity or need into more of a part-time hobby. There's nothing wrong with that, but if there's anything at all I can suggest in life, to him, you, or anyone... It is be in control of your own intent. Understand your actions, and know why you act.
I cannot see much use in the actual combination of the two, just solely with the idea that he doesn't want his parents to find out... Combining them would actually be a huge mockery, a very visible one, that one could use as a weapon against their parents' forced rules, but never as any sort of hidden secret that would allow him to openly pursue both.
That is with the assumption that he even feels that Catholicism has been forced upon him.
Anyways, any deviation from the standard catholic line is suspect, almost especially any influence that could possibly come from the Mythos (or involvement in the CoC, long may it live!). I know this having been raised Catholic myself. The imagery and convention of the Work, even at the most basic levels, could not be openly incorporated without raising some sort of suspicion. If he feels the Call, but cannot openly explore it.. It would make more sense to not change anything at all about his outward Catholic appearance, and investigate more into (and should he so choose, worship) our Work in the most secretive way he can. Without any intermingling with his Catholic upbringing. Perhaps over your house.
Otherwise, it may take patience until he is free from the dominance of others... Most pointedly, to even become an actual Catholic. Let alone to heed the Call.
I can understand the allure of it, delighting in secret knowledge that is, ultimately, obscenely cool. All in all, though, that is a serious deviation from being true to oneself. Don't get me wrong.. I totally understand the situation, and living at home but struggling to find your identity. It just warrants a lot of deep thought.
-Papertiger
Remember yourself. The Emerald Kingdom is at hand.
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Apr 29, 2010 18:32:17 GMT -6
The mingling of two faiths is possible, however, the mingling or Christianity with another faith, especially one of the Left-Hand Path proves greater difficulty. In fact damn near impossible due to the fact that Christianity itself is a strict religion as per described by the Holy Bible. There are many laws, commandments if you will on how to live and worship...
If he wishes to explore the Occult, particularly the Mythos, why not just hide it? I did it for years when I was a kid (only to realize years later my father wouldn't have given a shit anyway). As Papertiger said, he could still maintain the outwardly appearance of a Catholic. Shouldn't be that hard, just feel guilty about everything (that's a joke...). I am one for personal choice and freedom, so if he indeed feels the Calling he shouldn't let the rents stop him from studying whatever he wants to study. Besides, he is 18. He's an adult now.
Awake!
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Post by Timotheus Prophet of Darkness on May 4, 2010 9:04:54 GMT -6
The mingling of two faiths is possible, however, the mingling or Christianity with another faith, especially one of the Left-Hand Path proves greater difficulty. In fact damn near impossible due to the fact that Christianity itself is a strict religion as per described by the Holy Bible. There are many laws, commandments if you will on how to live and worship... If he wishes to explore the Occult, particularly the Mythos, why not just hide it? I did it for years when I was a kid (only to realize years later my father wouldn't have given a shit anyway). As Papertiger said, he could still maintain the outwardly appearance of a Catholic. Shouldn't be that hard, just feel guilty about everything (that's a joke...). I am one for personal choice and freedom, so if he indeed feels the Calling he shouldn't let the rents stop him from studying whatever he wants to study. Besides, he is 18. He's an adult now. Awake! True but it's their house their rules!
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Post by 10kdays on May 4, 2010 12:13:34 GMT -6
The mingling of two faiths is possible, however, the mingling or Christianity with another faith, especially one of the Left-Hand Path proves greater difficulty. In fact damn near impossible due to the fact that Christianity itself is a strict religion as per described by the Holy Bible. There are many laws, commandments if you will on how to live and worship... If he wishes to explore the Occult, particularly the Mythos, why not just hide it? I did it for years when I was a kid (only to realize years later my father wouldn't have given a shit anyway). As Papertiger said, he could still maintain the outwardly appearance of a Catholic. Shouldn't be that hard, just feel guilty about everything (that's a joke...). I am one for personal choice and freedom, so if he indeed feels the Calling he shouldn't let the rents stop him from studying whatever he wants to study. Besides, he is 18. He's an adult now. Awake! True but it's their house their rules! Yes, but not with beliefs. No one but you can decide that.
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Post by egodiabolus on May 4, 2010 12:52:56 GMT -6
I am going to assume that the reason he wants to combine the faith of his father with the Cthulhu Mythos is that he does not wish to worship the faith of his father any longer, otherwise the opinions given so far are correct. Christianity is a monotheist religion, with Satan thrown in for a little spice. When you worship their God, you are given no other options and very little wiggle-room in regards to who that God is.
Catholicism is a whole other bag, though related to Christianity in its more Puritan forms that we here in the US are familiar with. The Catholic God is a trinity, with a host of angels, saints, martyrs, and minor players for the good Catholic to choose from. I have even read some strong evidence to suggest that the name "Jesus" was created to divert the lay-people and enemies of the Church from having direct access to their God... the clergy worship a Messiah by a whole other name (or may be adherents of a religion that is only loosely connected to the one they offer the public).
In other words, one could find some heavy, dark shit in Catholicism if they tried, and not break faith with the Church.
I wouldn't buy into that bit about the "One True God" being the creator of all the other gods. First of all, who is this "One True God", and how do you validate that? If you point to the Christian Bible as proof, your going to have people howling about the contradictions and fallacies of that document as evidence against its validity, and someone like me will direct you to some nifty writings on Ra in Egypt that tell another story, are older than the Hebrew myths, and are equally flawed (and therefore equally valid).
Here in the Cult of Cthulhu, we say keep your local gods, even your "One True God". Our Gods are outside that whole paradigm, separate and entire unto themselves, poised to create some real change in this crystalized-reality that an absentee and possibly deceased God has left behind. This is all metaphor in my mind, but you get what I am saying.
I seem to recall in one of LaVey's books a description of someone going to Church, following the rituals, making the appropriate gestures and saying the appropriate words, but all the while thinking about Satanism and their own self-gratification. Religion is a matter of heart and mind, thus lip-service is not true worship. Your friend should continue to abide by his or her parents rules until s/he is on her/is own. I find myself echoing the statements of others here today.
If he is, however, looking for some kind of fusion between Catholicism and the Mythos... I say good luck to him, but he will find little support from either camp. To suggest that the Nativity Story of the Christian Bible is an allegory for Yog'Sothoth inducing the Elder Things to tamper with humanity and produce those of us with the dark shard in our souls which draws us to Cthulhu would seem a blasphemy all the way around. But, to each their own.
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by Timotheus Prophet of Darkness on May 5, 2010 7:50:56 GMT -6
True but it's their house their rules! Yes, but not with beliefs. No one but you can decide that. maybe so but while he's there he's gotta go to church,i'd let him move in with me but i already have more then a houseful.
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Post by LostSoul on May 29, 2010 14:14:53 GMT -6
While I cannot help but agree that to mix Catholicism and worship of the alien gods is not going to work...
However, certain African christian faiths have found a way to combine local beliefs with the more traditional Christianity. And, lest we forget Voudon.
So, in some ways; adaptation is possible; I'm finding ways to combine wiccan ways with worship of the forgotten gods; but, with Catholicism; I just don't know. Do keep us up-to-date on any progress you make.
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