Lucifer

[rylehsambassador]

I have a topic for discussion seeing as I pride myself on knowning a decent amount about luciferian sorcerey my question for the group is how do you personally view Lucifer in the light bringer aspect ? And do you draw the line in difference between the Satanic aspect and the Luciferian aspect or do you meld the two as one.Love to hear some opinions.

[ragnafa]

When it comes to Mr Ford's philosophy,the way I interpreted it from his books is that Lucifer is a balance of light and dark...not so much good and evil concept that we as humans put to much focus on. It's almost like yoda, blend all elements together and you become balanced. As for Satan In the Luciferian concept it's used just for the dark nature of things to gain a specific outcome when it comes to ritual....Awake

[rylehsambassador]

Indeed I believe you caught the jist of fords ideas I did practice and live in a "luciferian" way well before I picked up a ford book ever. Though I do enjoy his work

Awake!

[atuxv]

Firstly, if you are talking about Lucifer in a purely Satanic context, then you are dealing with methodology and operating within the Christian/Satanic mythological paradigm. You are working within a particular system within a particular dogmatic framework. This is not a bad thing, just one of many possibilities in the esoteric multiverse.

Pre-Christian Lucifer was Pan the All-Begetter. Pan (who became the Morning Star) knew no dualism, knew only unity. He sought to become one with all things beautiful and ecstatic as well as all things disgusting and repugnant. Pan knew no judgement because he was passionately, madly in love with all things manifest in the lower, material realms. This is one of the origins of the ideal that the Devil was a being imprisoned in the earth, because the Devil (at least in archetypal tarot) is the exhaled energy of the Earth Realm.

Hear me, Lord of Stars,
For thee I have worshiped ever
With stains and sorrows and scars,
With joyful, joyful Endeavour.
Hear me, O lilywhite goat
Crisp as a thicket of thorns,
With a collar of gold for thy throat,
A scarlet bow for thy horns.
- The Book of Thoth

[Thoth Respa]

Lucifer is known as Tanus, the Italian god of Light..in strega he is viewed as the husband of Diana. Nothing christian or rebel angel about it. To even view him from the ideaology of christian conception is not accurate in my own opinion

IA!
Thoth Respa
Herald of the Old Gods

[haruspex]

I understand Lucifer to be a dying god - at least this is how he 'seems' to be depicted in the Hebrew holy book... fallen. It goes on to state that the fall of Lucifer had some sort of phenomenological impact on the hive mind - it became weakened when it fell... An interesting story nonetheless, whatever actually occurred.

[A'Zodul F'eid]

It is my view that to be truely divine there is an understood concept of dying in many cases. Osiris, Odin, Jesus, Pharaohs, King Arthur, the reincarnations of the Dalli Lama and many other figures of divinity have had to transgress life in order to awaken a dead/sleeping part of themselves. I'm not certain I grasp the concept well enough, but it seems plausible to me that a trait of divinity is the separation of essence and matter. I'd have trouble saying that Lucifer's fall was his death, or even a key point in the progress toward his divinity. More likely I'd say his being slayed by Michael is what changed him from a fallen angel to a new god. Well, maybe that and the merger of him and multiple pagan entities.

Awaken!

[quantumtraveler]

Personally, I view Satan as a trickster that aids us to use our own prison to our own advantage so we may liberate ourselves from it. Lucifer is the Light Bearer/Light Bringer; s/he aids us in seeing the light of the road that is our True Will! I normally don't combine the two but in reality they are, for me, two very similar entities or simply two of the many aspects of something higher and more meaningful, baphomet?

Awake!

[overfiend]

In our language we often refer to intelligence or wisdom using light or vision. If I am going to teach you something new I might say,"Let me enlighten you." If I want to know that you understand I might say,"Do you see what I am saying?" If I learn something new I might say,"I was blind, but now I see."

His name Lucifer (Light Bringer) implies that he is bringing the light. He is bringing understanding. He is a teacher. Adversity has taught me a hell of lot more than anything else. Real wisdom comes from failure.

Satan is the adversary, and without the adversity we would never fail. We wouldnt learn anything. Though the common christian perspective is that Satan hates you, he still serves the purpose that he was created for whether he wants to or not. There is no avoiding destiny. It may be true that he hates you but it doesnt mean that he can escape his purpose. Satan is a destructive force that should be avoided. Never think that he will favor you, or bless you or that you can be in league with the devil, that he is your friend. His purpose is to destroy you, and nothing more, and more often then not he will succeed. Though it is said that he rebelled, I think he still serves God in this fashion. He does what he was created to do and he really has no choice in the matter.

Is any of that shit true? I have no idea to be honest.

[andrewbloodworth]

Jul 18, 2010 18:44:49 GMT -6 rylehsambassador said:

I have a topic for discussion seeing as I pride myself on knowning a decent amount about luciferian sorcerey my question for the group is how do you personally view Lucifer in the light bringer aspect ? And do you draw the line in difference between the Satanic aspect and the Luciferian aspect or do you meld the two as one.Love to hear some opinions.

I've always melt the two together. As lucifer is the strongest between april 30 to oct. 30, and then satan is the stronger of the two from oct 31 to april 29. That being the norm in traditional satanism as oppossed to laveyism. I've studied both, traditional has the meditations and prayers that would divide lucifer and satan on the proper dates. Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!

[xiaogui17]

I see Lucifer as an archetype that has a place within a larger paradigm, instead of an absolute ideal. Lucifer represents what Gurdjieff would have called the way of the yogi, or mental development. It is certainly essential, but not to the exclusion of all else.

Lucifer is Latin for light bearer. It hearkens back to the Greek Pyrphoros, or "Fire Bearer," a title of Prometheus. (Michael Ford's Phosphorus is light bearer in Greek.) Prometheus was a Titan, more primal than the gods. He imparted man with the godlike capacity to reason, and taught them the sciences and humanities that they may create their own world instead of being subject to the chaotic whims of nature. His gift of fire embodies illumination and enlightenment, and both creative and destructive power.

Azazel, in the Book of Enoch, is a similar figure, who teaches men forbidden godly knowledge (many of the same arts Prometheus did) and is bound to rocks as punishment. Both Azazel and Prometheus's transgressions are followed by deluges, and the survivors of both build arcs (Noah and Deukalion, respectively). Also similar is Inanna's robbing of the me, or divine arts, from Enki, though the deluge and arc of Utnapishtim described in the Epic of Gilgamesh come much later and are not as clearly related to the original theft. Interesting, though, is that Utnapishtim sends a similar (though not identical) set of birds out to investigate if land has surfaced. Both he and Noah send a dove and raven, though in Genesis the dove discovers land; in Gilgamesh, the raven does.

The use of Lucifer in Isaiah 14:12 is actually a Latin rendition of the Hebrew heilel ben shakhar, shining son of the dawn. The Vulgate translators interpreted this to be a reference to the morning star, and dutifully rendered it "Lucifer," the title the Romans gave Venus. It referred to the fall of a Babylonian king (in my opinion the emperor Isaiah called Merodach Baladan, but that's a whole long tangent). But later, John Milton took this verse to be a reference to the alleged battle in heaven described in Revelations, and the Fall, and thus used the term Lucifer as the pre-fall angelic title of Satan (the Christian 'devil'), and it has had that connotation ever since.

Also interesting is that, in Revelation 22:16, Jesus uses the term Phosphoros, Greek light-bearer and equivalent to Lucifer, to describe himself. Early Catholics sometimes referred to Christ as Lucifer (in Latin ceremonies), as demonstrated by the Exsultet chant.

When the stars are right!

[andrewbloodworth]

Very well put, many people don't believe in lucifer or jesus for that matter were ever real. Depends if you believe in them as actual deities or not. If you are more lavey then you believe satan as a force of nature. If you're more traditional worship, then its a deity that you worship. If you're an atheist, then any talk about jesus this and jesus that just doesn't make much sense in a discussion. Very nice post, i enjoyed reading it! Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn

[lasmmae]

We'll As Most People Know That Lucifer's Name Means "Light-Bringer" I Think That It Refers "Light" To "Truth". I View Lucifer(Or Satan) As A God That Is Some What "Neutral" When It Comes To The Classification Of Good And Evil. He's Done Evil Things But He's Also Done Good Things, He Does What Ever Needs To Happen So That He Advances On His Goals. Which Is What All Left-Hand Path Followers Should Think About, Doing What Ever Is Needed To Gain Victory.

[Cain Da'arnesh]

Hmmm the ends justify the means! That is precisely what I was just considering brother! thank you for your input... Also, if you are in fact a sister, I apologize as your post doesn't provide a gender...