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Post by Apsara Kamalli on Jul 1, 2010 21:50:08 GMT -6
Change is the catalyst of all growth.
It is a universal constant that will always be a part of our existence, from the first breath to the last. Though many changes are unavoidable, and can provoke feelings of complete discomfort or fear, it is our response to it that will dictate the future of our experiences. We cannot, and should not, hide from it. Change is all around us, forever challenging us to remain open to new ideas and opportunities of growth.
The transformation of self will happen through self-observation during a period of great personal change. To make change work to benefit you, look constructively at your situation. Focus on your emotional reaction, and then look past it. Reevaluate your plans and goals of your near future. In doing so, you will discover that you can adapt your aims to the new circumstances before you.
The universe does not operate with a “cock-blocking” mentality. It provides you with the set of circumstances you most likely need in order to become more awakened to its existence and influence. It is up to you to then internalize what opportunity you have attracted to self and capitalize on your new state of affairs. We are not at the whim of an unpredictable universe, but masters of our own destinies choosing how to make change work in our favor.
Awake!
AK
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Post by natalia666 on Jul 6, 2010 18:21:05 GMT -6
Great point! I believe this is a key difference between left handed and right handed teachings. The RHP teaches to be satisfied and in harmony, but such breeds complacency! Understand the power of chaos, war, hunger...all this being one term, Change!
In Buddhism they teach non-attachment, that change is always happening, this is indeed true, but we must pursue change to evolve. Someone who is not changing is not evolving, thus stagnation. How fast we change, a great deal of it, depends on our own self. I know old friends who are still in the same situation they were five years ago! We must push ourself to Become, to Awake, to Xeper. Embracing Change makes all the difference.
That last paragraph is very important. To me, the Universe is like a lock, I must make the right moves and configuration to unlock the right path(s). It is not "against" me, rather it presents me with situations and a hand of cards, it is up to me on how I play them. The more we can shift, the more pliable we are, the faster and stronger we can Change.
Awake.
-Natalia
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Jul 6, 2010 23:44:44 GMT -6
Change is the catalyst of all growth.
It is a universal constant that will always be a part of our existence, from the first breath to the last. Though many changes are unavoidable, and can provoke feelings of discomfort or fear, it is our response to it that will dictate the nature of our experiences. We cannot, and should not, hide from it. Change is all around us, forever challenging us to remain open to new ideas and opportunities of growth.
The transformation of self will happen through self-observation during a period of great personal change. To make change work to benefit you, look constructively at your situation. Focus on your emotional reaction, and then look past it. Reevaluate your plans and goals of your near future. In doing so, you will discover that you can adapt your aims to the new circumstances before you.
The universe does not operate with a “cock-blocking” mentality. It provides you with the set of circumstances you most likely need in order to become more awakened to its existence and influence. It is up to you to then internalize what opportunity you have attracted to self and capitalize on your new state of affairs. We are not at the whim of an unpredictable universe, but masters of our own destinies choosing how to make change work in our favor.
Awake!
AK
I disagree in part. whilst your absolutely right; one must embrace change or else perish. I don't think the universe wants us to grow. The best reference, or at least one of the recent would be High priests Venger's video "are we in a prison." the challenge of change(as you put it) seems to me not to be some door presented to us that we must simply embrace or we otherwise will fail. I think a dichotomy like this doesn't really cover everything. In that not all change is inherently good, or productive, or desirable etc. This 'cock-blocking' attitude is all around us. one needs not look very hard to see the nature of the universe as a prison. consider that everyone is asleep, moving about as zombie thoughtlessly pursuing tasks because they are told to. it is the universe that rocks the cradle and sings the lullabies. Rare is the day that one is presented so profoundly with the opportunity to better themselves. rarer is the day that this opportunity comes with out struggle and effort. the 4th way in of itself is a struggle, a constant effort. If we where not 'at the whim' of the universe and people truly where 'masters of there own destinies' then groups like ourselves would not exist. self change would be commonplace, success would be abound and the 4th way would be obsolete. Awake
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Post by egodiabolus on Jul 7, 2010 8:36:17 GMT -6
I disagree in part. whilst your absolutely right; one must embrace change or else perish. I don't think the universe wants us to grow. The best reference, or at least one of the recent would be High priests Venger's video "are we in a prison. This concept, having been brought to head on a recent episode of the Ooze and spurring both the creation of the video you are referencing and a round-robin writing project the leadership of the Cult of Cthulhu and some outside Satanist Luminaries are participating in, is in debate and subject to interpretation. My view is that the "prison analogy" described by Gurdjieff and Ouspensky is meant to be a means of initiating a conversation and bringing to light a more correct perspective on our relationship with reality than the more common apathetic view.
It is more correct, but also intended to be a temporary analogy.
The prison described is mainly the values, behaviors, and moral codes of conduct that are artificial in nature, programmed into us by social training, and are generally assumed correct by the majority without being challenged by the individual. The walls of this "prison" are greatly supported by our trained assumption that the authority figure is right in all things and our apathy toward opposing persons and symbols of authority even when we recognize that they are wrong.
Once, however, the individual recognizes the prison-like state of their condition and begins to work to find ways to change it, the Work encourages change in perspective and self. We are not "breaking down the walls" as changing our relationship with those limitations and our perspective as a whole. Part of the "escape" process is learning to use the prison itself to facilitate that escape... we have to work within the system as a part of it, not outside of it, otherwise the Work has no practical value (see The Fourth Way by Ouspensky).
If we begin using the "prison", then it becomes less an adversary and more a facilitator toward our evolution. As Jason King pointed out on the Ooze, a "victim mentality" is just as much a part of the "prison" as anything else. When one recognizes that they can stop being a victim through active participation in their lives, doesn't the prison begin to dissolve?" the challenge of change(as you put it) seems to me not to be some door presented to us that we must simply embrace or we otherwise will fail. I think a dichotomy like this doesn't really cover everything. In that not all change is inherently good, or productive, or desirable etc. The door analogy, along with Natalia666's lock analogy, are excellent examples of what I believe would be the next part of the conversation; the individual is aware of the artificial limitations placed upon them and has begun shuffling off those shackles. His perspective is changed, thus the "prison" is no longer a sufficient description of his situation. He is now faced with a door and a lock. He has no clue what is beyond the door; he may hear things from the other side and his world may have an occasional visitation by some thing or someone who has been beyond the threshold, but otherwise he is clueless. He can know something in relationship to the door; either he wants to open it because he is weary of where he is or he wants to keep it shut.
Leaving it shut is easy. Opening it is another matter entirely. It is locked. Forcing open the door, if possible, could be dangerous because the individual has not sufficiently prepared themselves for what lays beyond. Taking the time, making the efforts, and becoming the "key" to the lock prepares the individual for what is beyond... and if he doesn't like it, a door opens both ways, though he will remained changed by the experience.This 'cock-blocking' attitude is all around us. one needs not look very hard to see the nature of the universe as a prison. consider that everyone is asleep, moving about as zombie thoughtlessly pursuing tasks because they are told to. it is the universe that rocks the cradle and sings the lullabies. Rare is the day that one is presented so profoundly with the opportunity to better themselves. rarer is the day that this opportunity comes with out struggle and effort. the 4th way in of itself is a struggle, a constant effort. Let us be honest. If anything, the universe is indifferent to our state. It is our own attitude, our apathy, that "rocks the cradle". Our system of society encourages this personal attitude, which is why the shock of an example like the "prison analogy" is effective in changing that attitude. But it only goes half-way. If the "prison analogy" was the end of the conversation, the correct and immutable nature of the universe, then what would be the point of escaping? How does on escape THE UNIVERSE? The first step in escaping the prison is recognizing the artificial limitations in our life and then stop being a victim of them through self-observation and remembering. If we where not 'at the whim' of the universe and people truly where 'masters of there own destinies' then groups like ourselves would not exist. self change would be commonplace, success would be abound and the 4th way would be obsolete. Ouspensky points out that there will never be a full escape. This is why it is in error to try to "free" everyone. Freedom is relative, so for one to be "more free" it is required that others be less so. Certain laws and limitations will always exist, real laws that are immutable. We are, however, "masters of our own destinies" largely because we can choose to dictate our relationship with reality. We each are individually responsible for our states of being. The main page of this website points out the "belief is reality". The universe itself is indifferent to you, so if you are a prisoner, it is because you choose to be. Nothing can be done to free you until you choose otherwise.
Awake!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by I AM the Way on Jul 7, 2010 13:28:02 GMT -6
"The time has come when normal revolt against time, space, & matter must assume a form not overtly incompatible with what is known as reality - when it must be gratified by images forming supplements rather than contradictions of the visible & measurable universe."
H.P. Lovecraft
Very inspirational; however, I fear that our reality's dark underbelly is so insidiously convincing and distracting that illusion has become an integral component of our entire being. To such an extent that ordinary "change", "growth", and "transformation" turns out to be nothing but another dead end.
All super-effort requires breaking through a pain barrier. Let's get hypothetical for a moment. Say I created an intelligent, self-aware race of creatures for my nefarious needs yet worried about them breaking free at some point. I should make the acquisition of that freedom extremely unlikely. What better way than to assure the halting of their evolution by attaching that freedom to suffering?
Indifferent or hostile, the universe does not hand out solid gold rainbows to everyone with an extended hand. Cthulhuism demands work.
Working up to a state of higher consciousness is just as important as keeping it rather than backsliding or changing back to our former state of waking sleep.
I suggest working on two separate lines simultaneously... within the system and outside of it.
Even though Priest of R'lyeh Ego Diabolus and I disagree on the first part, the basic facts remain unaltered: it takes specific and ongoing effort to Awaken. The prison analogy, like all analogies, are merely a way for us to visualize the difficulty we face.
I agree, although Master Diabolus has a valid point as well.
The Cthulhu Cult shall never die!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by natalia666 on Jul 7, 2010 13:43:04 GMT -6
I agree with Ego Diabolus's explanation. The Universe is indifferent, mechanical really, and our relationship to it is how we perceive it to be.
The 'prison' perception/analogy is practical in results in that it forces us to realize we are both the Jailer and the Prisoner, as RAW would put it. The biggest limitations are the ones we place on ourself by our beliefs, etc.
I also agree we must work within and without. I focus on my spiritual side as much as my material side, and both very much intertwined. Also, I work in my Higher State just as much as I work with the Persona Ego. I can be a sociable flippant 22 year old girl as much as I can be an Aware Priestess. Gotta enjoy your mask.
The stronger benefit of a prison analogy is from an anti-cosmic view. Would we say the Demiurge has external forces which keep us restricted? Or perhaps it is less sentient, it is really inertia that keeps us restricted? People who never Awake, never Become, they are in stagnate inertia; stasis.
It would be pragmatic to believe the Universe DOES want us to stay stagnate and not Become, I wouldn't disagree, although I believe that's like saying gravity is opposed to us flying...really its simply a law of physics, it has no adverse motive. I say it is pragmatic because, to me, it gives me an antinomian drive to Become. If I perceive the Universe wants me to stay stagnate...then I do just the opposite.
-natalia
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Post by I AM the Way on Jul 7, 2010 13:55:56 GMT -6
Ah, but the invention of flying is child's play next to our struggle to Awaken.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by natalia666 on Jul 7, 2010 14:07:26 GMT -6
Have you physically flew?
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Post by egodiabolus on Jul 7, 2010 14:11:55 GMT -6
I suggest working on two separate lines simultaneously... within the system and outside of it. Of course, this is absolutely correct. I should have been more clear. What I meant was that we cannot work in a manner that is isolated from the world, and the system, around us. As we create more and more fractures in the system/prison/artificially induced paradigm, our efforts should both work to create new fractures AND to make use of the "spaces" created.Even though Priest of R'lyeh Ego Diabolus and I disagree on the first part, the basic facts remain unaltered: it takes specific and ongoing effort to Awaken. The prison analogy, like all analogies, are merely a way for us to visualize the difficulty we face. High Priest Venger As'Nas Satanis is the visionary, and I am more the pragmatist. I focus on the method, regardless of the cause of our situation. The end results, whatever they may be, are more desirable than what we "suffer" (meaning both tolerate and endure). If the Ancient Ones return, I will be just as prepared for the eventuality and having Lord Satanis say, "see, told you so", as I will any other potential result of our combined efforts.
The Cthulhu Cult shall never die!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by I AM the Way on Jul 7, 2010 16:21:43 GMT -6
I have, many times. In airplanes, elevators, and one day I might fly in a hot air balloon over New Mexico.
My point was that human beings care more about traveling to their destination at increasingly faster speeds than waking up from the sleep of life. Especially since 99% of people falsely believe that they are already awake.
How can it be that something so important can be relegated to one or two volumes within a bookstore or library? New Age, Occult, Spirituality, Religion, Philosophy, and Psychology... we know them well; however, each of these sections fail to grasp the central themes of man's struggle to evolve. All of us right now are using a fraction of our true potential because this reality seems so God damn convincing. So utterly convincing that some people become angry when we try enlightening them. Fourth Way schools are necessary so that's what the Cult of Cthulhu is.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by natalia666 on Jul 7, 2010 17:50:55 GMT -6
Under that premise, how does one know they are awake? If 99% believe they are yet aren't, then apparently 1% is, but how would they know any more than the next? And what entails being awake?
Personally, I look to results, that speaks more than anything. Otherwise it falls into relativism.
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Jul 7, 2010 19:07:06 GMT -6
I have, many times. In airplanes, elevators, and one day I might fly in a hot air balloon over New Mexico.
My point was that human beings care more about traveling to their destination at increasingly faster speeds than waking up from the sleep of life. Especially since 99% of people falsely believe that they are already awake.
How can it be that something so important can be relegated to one or two volumes within a bookstore or library? New Age, Occult, Spirituality, Religion, Philosophy, and Psychology... we know them well; however, each of these sections fail to grasp the central themes of man's struggle to evolve. All of us right now are using a fraction of our true potential because this reality seems so God damn convincing. So utterly convincing that some people become angry when we try enlightening them. Fourth Way schools are necessary so that's what the Cult of Cthulhu is.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
Well said Lord Satanis. Many people seem to be in a whole lot of hurry to nowhere, never taking the time to "smell the roses" or even pondering their own existence. People fear. People fear a lot. It's because of the fear of helplessness (i.e, being utterly alone in the vastness of space) that people will often cling to something much more comforting, such as the existence of a supreme being who is all-knowing and all-loving. They inflate their own self-worth an incalculable number of times to make them feel at ease within this chaotic existence. When someone comes along, like say, Lord Satanis with his bounties of wisdom and diabolical good looks and proposes something threatening to their "reality" that pretty much shatters all they've held on to for their entire existence; well, of course they are going to get angry. They'll call us crazy too, but who's really crazy here? That's what I wonder. AWAKE!!!
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Post by egodiabolus on Jul 7, 2010 19:47:39 GMT -6
Under that premise, how does one know they are awake? If 99% believe they are yet aren't, then apparently 1% is, but how would they know any more than the next? And what entails being awake? Personally, I look to results, that speaks more than anything. Otherwise it falls into relativism. Ouspensky discusses being "awake" as an objective awareness of self and of the universe. He breaks down the scale between "asleep" and "awake" to 7 stages. The first three stages are all basically equal, with the focus being on one characteristic over others; physical, emotional, or mental. The last four are different stages of "awareness", the 4th stage is a person who recognizes that they need to be "awake" (to develop their awareness), the 5th stage is objective awareness of self, the 6th stage is an objective awareness of all things (along with the development of a "higher" emotional process), and the 7th stage develops a "higher" intellectual process.
I have heard these stages explained in different ways, especially stages 5, 6, and 7. Ouspensky stated that he was not aware of a "Man 5", but that history had examples of "men 5, 6, and 7" based on the works they left behind. He doesn't really sight firm examples of these works, seeming to leave it to the student to make that value-judgment for themselves.
In the Work, relativism is definitely a component. You are either more awake or less awake, more free or less free. Neither scale appears to have a practical absolute, and we all experience periods of being "awake" vs. being "asleep". The goal seems to be experiencing the "awake" state more often, and under self-determined conditions.
In this model, relativism is a good thing.
I agree that most people take their awareness for granted, not realizing that awareness requires effort and can be developed, but even an uninitiated ditch-digger, leading as menial and un-extraordinary life that can be imagined will have moments of true lucidity.
I don't think I agree with the model when it extends into the latter stages of the scale. Like you, I look to results. Personally, I know that I am relatively more awake than I was before starting in this system, simply because I work at it and have reaped the benefits; better emotional response and communication with those around me, more efficient use of time and my talents, and improved outlook on life in general... However, if someone pointed to a work of art from antiquity and said that was produced by a "man 7", I would have to ask was this person really a "man 7", or just having a "man 7" moment?
Being "awake" is not something that one achieves and then quits trying. It is not a destination. I believe that it is also not a state that can be maintained continuously, that their will be periods of "sleep" experienced even by those who are adept at maintaining their awareness for long periods of time. I am willing to accept the possibility that these higher stages of awareness exist, but since their existence is only assumed based on the model of this system I cannot accept it as a certainty.
Awake!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by natalia666 on Jul 7, 2010 19:54:42 GMT -6
That makes good sense. Incredibly similar to the Tree of Life/Death, Four Worlds, each World being a particular part of man's psyche, just as each Qlipphothic Shell is a detail of man's psyche.
I will research the Ouspensky stages more. To me, it is all a progress of Becoming. Personally, I find it difficult to squeeze it into a gauge but it can to a point. Again, yes, results tell more than anything. Who I am now in comparison to a year ago is insanely drastically different and evolved. One must always always Become and grow with a hunger.
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Post by Apsara Kamalli on Jul 7, 2010 20:47:43 GMT -6
Very inspirational; however, I fear that our reality's dark underbelly is so insidiously convincing and distracting that illusion has become an integral component of our entire being. To such an extent that ordinary "change", "growth", and "transformation" turns out to be nothing but another dead end. I agree with this point, but only to a certain extent. The fact that I am a being, aware of being asleep on a regular basis, and only experiencing moments of awake when I remember, means that I have the opportunity to see change as a catalyst more often. Ordinary or otherwise. I think there is more to be recognized here than just focusing on the dead end you may so often experience. One time, just once, it might be more than a dead end. That one time could make all the difference. All super-effort requires breaking through a pain barrier. Let's get hypothetical for a moment. Say I created an intelligent, self-aware race of creatures for my nefarious needs yet worried about them breaking free at some point. I should make the acquisition of that freedom extremely unlikely. What better way than to assure the halting of their evolution by attaching that freedom to suffering? So you believe that the A:O want us to be asleep because it benefits them the most to have us this way? You don't escape "the universe." You can't. Rather than focusing on running from it, embrace it, then manipulate it effectively to awaken. While I appreciate the Fourth Way philosophy and the CoC forum to discuss it, I disagree. The universe does not have it out to get us. We all have the capability of becoming masters of our own destinies; most people just don't realize it. It is through self-exploration and realization of being asleep that we begin to recognize that there could be so much more. Once this happens, we begin to seek out others who might think, or be experiencing, the same thing.
Although from a different perspective, the search for others like us perpetuates keeping us asleep because we don't want to be the only one, even if it is "right" for us. I think Kai'Sigth said it best when he said that we are afraid of "being utterly alone in the vastness of space." This can be counter-productive if not approached from the right angle.
This thread has taken an interesting turn. I appreciate the responses and feedback.
Awake!
AK
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Post by I AM the Way on Jul 7, 2010 22:42:57 GMT -6
Verification, my dear. We must all verify what is taught here. Try to be conscious of this moment, here and now, according to you.
What entails being Awake? It's an awareness, a process, cleansing, purification, singularity and multiplicity, joyful calm, total self-control, enlightenment, acting instead of reacting, thinking on different levels, simultaneously operating in several dimensions... being Awake is power!
If you've already gone through Cthulhu Cult and Liber A:O, then I recommend reading one or two introductory texts on the Fourth Way.
Sometimes results don't tell us everything. Observe someone over a long period of time, however, and then you'll see what you need to.
Sometimes I feel more pessimistic than other times. If you've been ever-vigilant in your training, then all things are possible.
No, the universe or lesser gods of the earth want us to remain asleep, which we do for the most part. The Ancient Ones can only communicate with us by way of gnostic fragments while we're experiencing a higher state of consciousness. The A:O do not operate in this universe but in Universe B.
Personally, I've found that embracing the illusion (or prison) is fruitful only on occasion. I wish to see through it. There may be a way to temporarily escape Universe A. When Awake, we're less subject to its laws. It may not be total escape, but at least it's a partial liberation.
I will admit something to you. I am afraid. I'm afraid of underestimating the forces which work against us. Perhaps I'm wrong, and all that ineffable power is relatively easy to grasp... but then fear returns. I would hate to overestimate my abilities and in so doing, damn you all to never ending slavery.
The Cthulhu Cult shall never die!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by ieuan on Oct 13, 2010 18:39:22 GMT -6
So my question is, aren't we all trying to achieve a no return to this earth, after the state of death, a non recurrence to the same time, space, continuum. To truly escape, and the only way is by using a fourth way system. Now by the beliefs of our Religion, it is to unlock the locks so the Ancient Ones can awake thru us, the more awaken we are, the better the chance The Black Formless Essence has of ascending us to be like the Ancient Ones, and hence a no return and a dimensional fully awaken being.
Awake!
Ieuan Herald of the Old Gods Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 14, 2010 13:52:45 GMT -6
Yes, ideally everyone aligned with this religion seeks to escape the limits of this universe. Without liberation, we are as good as imprisoned.
One must have some kind of effective system in order to Awaken because the kind of evolution we talk about does not come by accident. The Cult of Cthulhu has co-opted Gurdjieff and Ouspensky's Fourth Way system as our own for this very purpose. By waking up from the sleep of life (living deliberately), we achieve higher states of consciousness. As our deeper awareness expands further beyond this reality, it influences the Great Old Ones, as well as, ourselves... it changes us, allowing for direct communication.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis High Priest Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by ieuan on Oct 15, 2010 18:36:19 GMT -6
Quote:
Ouspensky points out that there will never be a full escape. This is why it is in error to try to "free" everyone. Freedom is relative, so for one to be "more free" it is required that others be less so. Certain laws and limitations will always exist, real laws that are immutable. We are, however, "masters of our own destinies" largely because we can choose to dictate our relationship with reality. We each are individually responsible for our states of being. The main page of this website points out the "belief is reality". The universe itself is indifferent to you, so if you are a prisoner, it is because you choose to be. Nothing can be done to free you until you choose otherwise.
Awake!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
My question is if man is the master of his destiny, what is the meaning of everything happens by accident as stated in Ouspensky book the Fourth Way? Everything happens by accident, because man can not "do" because he has no will, and is under all types of influences and laws, how can he make a non mechanical choice? Does there not have to be a certain amount of consciousness, a man number 4, before he can make a choice, and become the master of his destiny? Does not beginnings of man number 4 happen by accident? I will give an example from my own experience. I was on a forum, and downloaded The Fourth Way by 'Ouspensky', I had no idea who he was, never heard of his book, it was just by accident that I happen upon this forum where this book was, and by accident I took a peek at it. It was by circumstance that I was in a system, a number of years before that taught self observation, non of these was technically by choice, it was by accident and an event by circumstance. This is a great teaching and learning thread. Hail Cult of Cthulhu
Awake
Ieuan Herald of the Old Gods Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by lucofthelight on Oct 15, 2010 23:16:18 GMT -6
Quote: Ouspensky points out that there will never be a full escape. This is why it is in error to try to "free" everyone. Freedom is relative, so for one to be "more free" it is required that others be less so. Certain laws and limitations will always exist, real laws that are immutable. We are, however, "masters of our own destinies" largely because we can choose to dictate our relationship with reality. We each are individually responsible for our states of being. The main page of this website points out the "belief is reality". The universe itself is indifferent to you, so if you are a prisoner, it is because you choose to be. Nothing can be done to free you until you choose otherwise. Awake! Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu My question is if man is the master of his destiny, what is the meaning of everything happens by accident as stated in Ouspensky book the Fourth Way? Everything happens by accident, because man can not "do" because he has no will, and is under all types of influences and laws, how can he make a non mechanical choice? Does there not have to be a certain amount of consciousness, a man number 4, before he can make a choice, and become the master of his destiny? Does not beginnings of man number 4 happen by accident? I will give an example from my own experience. I was on a forum, and downloaded The Fourth Way by 'Ouspensky', I had no idea who he was, never heard of his book, it was just by accident that I happen upon this forum where this book was, and by accident I took a peek at it. It was by circumstance that I was in a system, a number of years before that taught self observation, non of these was technically by choice, it was by accident and an event by circumstance. This is a great teaching and learning thread. Hail Cult of Cthulhu Awake Ieuan Herald of the Old Gods Cult of Cthulhu I think you are on the right path Ieuan in regards to your questions relating to the law of accident and man being the master of his own destiny.
There has to be a more frequent level of consciousness or 'presence' as Eckhart Tolle would say to maintain the momentum of a man number 4. There are certainly moments in a man number 1,2 and 3's life where he uses will and has moments of understanding and insight, yet they are more often than not brought on by exceptional circumstances or conditions that cause a momentary Awakening. So I guess you could say these moments are brought on by the law of accident.
A man number 4 realizes that he is responsible for his own Awakening and rather than leaving things up to the law of accident, he/she is determined to practice the Work to bring himself up to a more constant, conscious state. It is a definite struggle to maintain this number 4 state. One is not a master here, yet at least begins to understand how asleep and mechanical he is in many if not all aspects of his life and chooses to endure the struggle and difficulty of Awakening little by little.
Awake!
K'ara Kaiul Esoteric Wizard of the Terrible Darkness Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by boksmutant on Oct 24, 2010 10:26:32 GMT -6
What sucks is when a moment of Enlightenment comes & you let it go. How many times did you say to "God if I can just get through this I promise to never.....' Ive read some rad post by on this subject. How we are deeply influenced by events, that lead to other events, that bring us into a seemingly random moment that actually we designed. Thats a short version which I dont have a problem with. And I think that allows us the opening to make our own destiny possible. But as for the randomness. Well how many times have you realized your learning a lesson & actually took advantage of it. Either way there are a ton of lessons going on all around you all the time. Even total apathy & doing nothing is teaching you something. Probably something very bad. But its self imposed, so its a learning experience anyway. Might take you years to receive the answer. But your learning. Your just waiting for the universe or yourself to slap you in the face & ram it down your throat. I dont know if my tangent was relevant, But It does seem relative. Ill do more reading & get back to you. Hail Cthulhu!
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