Post by theplague on May 11, 2010 22:18:07 GMT -6
Hi guys (and gals, and Innsmouth hybrids, lol) -
I am new to the forums, so please forgive a certain temerity with posting new topics (after all, as they used to say in the US Senate, new Senators should be seen, not heard, lol). However, I wondered if anyone were familiar with Jean Paul Sartre's work, since I think it has relevance to ideas in the Cthulhu mythos.
Specifically, Sartre was the first to destroy the concept of the transcendental ego (and was followed in this by psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan) in his treatise, "The Transcendence of the Ego", a precursor to his magnum opus, "Being and Nothingness". In a nutshell, this meant that the "I" that we think we have does not really exist, but is just a psychological/unconscious creation to make us feel better. That is, what Sartre termed, "impersonal consciousness" is the sort of "primal" consciousness/awareness/etc., but our "self-image" has little to do with this "impersonal consciousness" but is just a construction, a concept, built up against the background of consciousness, just like any other concept. In other words, my concept of say, a tree, is created on the background of an "impersonal consciousness", but my concept of "I" is also just that, just another concept, and is not the same thing as consciousness - it is merely a construct, like "tree" or any other construct. There is no "I", there is just primal, "antediluvian", if you will, consciousness, upon which the (necessarily imperfect) notion of "I" is built. Similarly, in the Mythos, the concept of "Mankind" as supreme in the universe, is b.s., rather Mankind is simply the "playthings" of the Old Ones, not dissimilar to the Shoggoths, other "playthings" of the Old Ones - we may be prettier than the Shoggoths, but fundamentally, we are the same - mere toys for the amusement of the Old Ones. "I" has no elevated place versus any other concept in Sartre, similarly, Man has no elevated place among any other of earth's creatures in comparison to the Old Ones.
Also, there is the notion (liberating, and more positive than the perhaps negative or depressing concept of the disappearance of the "I") in Sartre of "existential freedom". That is, "free will" is NOT a function of the (non-existant) "I" or "ego". Rather, it is the "impersonal consciosness" re-creating itself at every instant of time, re-creating itself, throughout the lifetime of the person, in total freedom. So "me" so to speak "choosing" path A or path B, is not the "I" making a choice. Rather, it is the "impersonal consciousness" of the subject that I call "I" re-creating itself along path A or path B. I know this sounds a bit like gibberish, but trust me, if you read Sartre's "Transcendence of the Ego", it makes more sense (it is a very readable treatise by the way - quite short, and in pretty simple language compared to most philosophers). How does this relate to the Mythos? Well, a big attractor I think about the Old Ones is their total freedom - "all earth will be swallowed up in a holocaust of ecstatsy and freedom" I think was a quote or something like that from the story, "Call of Cthulhu" - when Lord Cthulhu awakens, man will revel in liberation and escatsy such as he has not known before, he will, that is, exercise his existential freedom to a degree never before seen. Because perhaps his Desire and his self-image will no longer be separate, that is, his "ego" (necessarily a construct for Sartre, and not a "real" thing) will become co-terminous with primal Desire, and thus the eternal re-creation of the subject's "impersonal consciousness" will be uninhibited by cultural bullshit, and will finally be truly "free", and will only then be truly "free", in an existential sense.
Anyway, I reserve judgment I guess (as I do with all things) as to whether I "buy" Sartre or not. But I find it interesting that there are similarities between his ideas and the Mythos. The "ego" is not supreme but is a construction, just as Man is not supreme compared with the Old Ones. And, more importantly, the "liberation" to be found at the awakening of the Old Ones might be the ultimate manifestation of true existential freedom as defined by Sartre. Then, and only then, can notions like "free will" really become coherent. Once again, skeptic s.o.b. that I am, lol, I don't know that I buy into "existential freedom" or whatever, though I do more or less agree with Sartre's perspective on the non-existence of the ego, but anyway I just found the correlation between Sartre's ideas and the Mythos to be of interest and thought I'd share. And please forgive any impertinence that might be seen with my being somewhat loquacious so soon after joining the forum. :-)
ia ia Cthulhu fhatgn!
Frank ("ThePlague")
I am new to the forums, so please forgive a certain temerity with posting new topics (after all, as they used to say in the US Senate, new Senators should be seen, not heard, lol). However, I wondered if anyone were familiar with Jean Paul Sartre's work, since I think it has relevance to ideas in the Cthulhu mythos.
Specifically, Sartre was the first to destroy the concept of the transcendental ego (and was followed in this by psychoanalyst Jacques Lacan) in his treatise, "The Transcendence of the Ego", a precursor to his magnum opus, "Being and Nothingness". In a nutshell, this meant that the "I" that we think we have does not really exist, but is just a psychological/unconscious creation to make us feel better. That is, what Sartre termed, "impersonal consciousness" is the sort of "primal" consciousness/awareness/etc., but our "self-image" has little to do with this "impersonal consciousness" but is just a construction, a concept, built up against the background of consciousness, just like any other concept. In other words, my concept of say, a tree, is created on the background of an "impersonal consciousness", but my concept of "I" is also just that, just another concept, and is not the same thing as consciousness - it is merely a construct, like "tree" or any other construct. There is no "I", there is just primal, "antediluvian", if you will, consciousness, upon which the (necessarily imperfect) notion of "I" is built. Similarly, in the Mythos, the concept of "Mankind" as supreme in the universe, is b.s., rather Mankind is simply the "playthings" of the Old Ones, not dissimilar to the Shoggoths, other "playthings" of the Old Ones - we may be prettier than the Shoggoths, but fundamentally, we are the same - mere toys for the amusement of the Old Ones. "I" has no elevated place versus any other concept in Sartre, similarly, Man has no elevated place among any other of earth's creatures in comparison to the Old Ones.
Also, there is the notion (liberating, and more positive than the perhaps negative or depressing concept of the disappearance of the "I") in Sartre of "existential freedom". That is, "free will" is NOT a function of the (non-existant) "I" or "ego". Rather, it is the "impersonal consciosness" re-creating itself at every instant of time, re-creating itself, throughout the lifetime of the person, in total freedom. So "me" so to speak "choosing" path A or path B, is not the "I" making a choice. Rather, it is the "impersonal consciousness" of the subject that I call "I" re-creating itself along path A or path B. I know this sounds a bit like gibberish, but trust me, if you read Sartre's "Transcendence of the Ego", it makes more sense (it is a very readable treatise by the way - quite short, and in pretty simple language compared to most philosophers). How does this relate to the Mythos? Well, a big attractor I think about the Old Ones is their total freedom - "all earth will be swallowed up in a holocaust of ecstatsy and freedom" I think was a quote or something like that from the story, "Call of Cthulhu" - when Lord Cthulhu awakens, man will revel in liberation and escatsy such as he has not known before, he will, that is, exercise his existential freedom to a degree never before seen. Because perhaps his Desire and his self-image will no longer be separate, that is, his "ego" (necessarily a construct for Sartre, and not a "real" thing) will become co-terminous with primal Desire, and thus the eternal re-creation of the subject's "impersonal consciousness" will be uninhibited by cultural bullshit, and will finally be truly "free", and will only then be truly "free", in an existential sense.
Anyway, I reserve judgment I guess (as I do with all things) as to whether I "buy" Sartre or not. But I find it interesting that there are similarities between his ideas and the Mythos. The "ego" is not supreme but is a construction, just as Man is not supreme compared with the Old Ones. And, more importantly, the "liberation" to be found at the awakening of the Old Ones might be the ultimate manifestation of true existential freedom as defined by Sartre. Then, and only then, can notions like "free will" really become coherent. Once again, skeptic s.o.b. that I am, lol, I don't know that I buy into "existential freedom" or whatever, though I do more or less agree with Sartre's perspective on the non-existence of the ego, but anyway I just found the correlation between Sartre's ideas and the Mythos to be of interest and thought I'd share. And please forgive any impertinence that might be seen with my being somewhat loquacious so soon after joining the forum. :-)
ia ia Cthulhu fhatgn!
Frank ("ThePlague")
