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Post by nektanabus on Apr 18, 2010 2:46:11 GMT -6
Darkest Greetings,
There seems to be a constant theme among us which concerns the idea that the Universe is nourished by human suffering.
How does this play out in practical terms?
How is the Universe feeding upon our suffering?
Can someone expound upon this idea, give sources, advice, etc?
Thanks.
By His loathsome Tentacles,
Nektanabus
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Post by Deadly Disease on Apr 21, 2010 10:49:03 GMT -6
Good Day,
The world is not nourished by human suffering. One of this cult's themes is that the Lesser Gods are nourished by our suffering. God, is one of them. I used to believe that God was as such even before I discovered this cult (said notion is integral to this cult's idealogies) because I was sick and tired of hearing about how much suffering has gone on in this world, how much suffering is taking place in the present and how much suffering will take place in the future. I even wrote a 3 page essay justifying this belief by logically affirming that in essence, because suffering is so omnipresent this must mean that if there is an all-powerful God then he must be sustained by this magnitude of human suffering because otherwise He would have done something about it long ago. Of course, the essay greatly expounded on the aforementioned logic but I do not remember it word for word and I unfortunately lost the essay. I showed the essay to a Christian and she told me it disturbed her; this disturbance that was provoked by what I wrote was most probably attributed to the fact that she didn't have a strong enough world-view to dismiss the nonsense I wrote; because that is what it was ultimately, nonsense.
Again and again in the last 4 years of my life, I have been shown irrefutable proof that there is an all powerful God (And I'm not talking about Ceremonial Magick and evoking angels and demons) I am talking about cold,hard Demonic Possession; that latter of which cannot even begin to compare to the former. And I know that even though there is a reason for the fact that God does not intervene in regards to ceasing human suffering from our lives, a very powerful one, a reason I discovered whilst researching God's word, reading in between the lines and manipulating my logic as a tool (God of course, does either cease completely or cease partially some of the suffering in the world as it the case with me for I have been healed beyond belief though nowhere nearly entirely), God does not feed off human suffering. On the contrary, if there is anything he feeds off, it is the rare, golden, golden human being (and he doesn't even have to be a Christian, let alone a devout one). When he sees people who are so good inside and do so much good, it makes him so happy; us mere human beings cannot even come close to fathoming that happiness He feels.
When good people pray, the Lord listens, but he ignores those who are evil. Proverbs 15:29
When you please the Lord, you can make your enemies into friends. Proverbs 16:7
The Lord protects honest people but destroys those who do wrong. Proverbs 10:29
Bad people will get what they deserve. Good people will be rewarded for their deeds. Proverbs 14:14
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 21, 2010 13:01:57 GMT -6
Apparently, James Campbell has re-entered the building. I'm in the process of escorting him back out.
Meanwhile, if someone qualified would like to tackle the original poster's query, I'd be much obliged. How about one of our Heralds?
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis
Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by egodiabolus on Apr 21, 2010 13:45:12 GMT -6
Darkest Greetings, There seems to be a constant theme among us which concerns the idea that the Universe is nourished by human suffering. How does this play out in practical terms? How is the Universe feeding upon our suffering? Can someone expound upon this idea, give sources, advice, etc? Thanks. By His loathsome Tentacles, Nektanabus
Let me take a stab at this.
First, when we are discussing the universe, we are really discussing it as relevant to us. The relevant universe is much closer to us, within our own realm of experience as observable by us. We can talk about absolutes and the universe in its entirety if you want, but most of it will be irrelevant to us in our situation.
The analogy is that the universe is nourished by human suffering. Try putting it another way; in the economy of the universe (relevant to us), the predominant medium of exchange is human suffering. Actually, I would go as far as saying it is suffering period. If you want something, you have to work to get it. Even a baby must cry to be fed, and generally is in anguish when hungry. Anything you want, you have to be willing to sacrifice to get. Sacrifice means suffering a loss.
Suffering need not be pain and anguish, but it does mean relinquishing energy to the forces around you in order that your needs/desires are met. You want a paycheck? Typically you must suffer so many hours a day as a slave to another. A food-chain is quickly established this way. We may not be the lowest link, but we are pretty damn close. As a machine, I might suffer for the success and the needs of a larger machine, say a store. That store may be part of a larger machine, a chain. If the store fails, the chain closes the store, so to survive the store must suffer sufficiently to produce a profit that the corporate office eats. That company may be part of a conglomerate, also feeding from the company's suffering. Those conglomerates in turn feed certain governments, and those governments feed off one another.
Our suffering does not fuel one kind of machine, but several. We also suffer for the government "machines". We may suffer for religious "machines", cultural "machines", ideological "machines". You may suffer for your children, for your spouse, for your friends and family. Suffering is not in and of itself bad. It is when we do so unconsciously, without a concern for the profit of our suffering that creates turmoil and we experience loss.
This chain goes beyond our meager sphere. As life, we suffer for the planet, our activity breeds the necessary fuels for the continued existence of life. The planet itself is not a free machine, it is governed by the other planets and the Sun. The Sun gives our planet life but it must suffer by remaining in it precarious orbit. The Sun itself is not a free machine; it is also ruled by greater machines beyond it.
Our suffering is a part of that chain, but if we learn to be aware of it, to use it, we can learn to get more for it, and maybe suffer relatively less.
Following the logic of a food chain, this suffering of one machine to the next above it can only lead to reality being the greatest machine, fueled by the sum total of all the suffering of its parts. In exchange, things like stars and planets and porn exist. The machines beyond us need not be intelligent, and based on the state of things I would feel safe saying that intelligence has nothing to do with it.
First of all, come to terms with the idea that suffering is necessary, just maybe not to the degree that we experience.
Next, understand that you are a machine with the potential to alleviate some of your suffering.
Recognize that your suffering feeds many mouths, some you are obliged to feed and some you are not.
Observe yourself. What activities and behaviors produce needless suffering? In other words, what do you do that profits you, and what do you do that is a waste?
Begin making compromises with yourself. Reduce what you do that is unprofitable and increase what you do that is profitable. This too is work... it is suffering, but you are partially feeding yourself.
Test these ideas, don't just take my word for it. Keep in mind that everything is exchange, give and take. You cannot see a flower without robbing it of some of its light, or it robbing you some of your attention and time. It is all suffering, but not in the mundane sense of the word.
If you can grasp this and apply it to your life, then we come to the really heavy stuff; like what happens when we learn to feed not this reality "machine", but something outside it... something that moves through our minds on ichorous tentacles...
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
Ego Diabolus
Priest of R'lyeh
Cult of Cthulhu
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Apr 21, 2010 21:04:32 GMT -6
Observe yourself. What activities and behaviors produce needless suffering? In other words, what do you do that profits you, and what do you do that is a waste? Begin making compromises with yourself. Reduce what you do that is unprofitable and increase what you do that is profitable. This too is work... it is suffering, but you are partially feeding yourself. [/color][/b][/quote] Those right there are very wise words. There are so many things what we tend to do in our lives that is just a complete waste of energy, time, and thoroughly fruitless. I know I am guilty of many of those things. All the time and energy spent and wasted could be redirected toward a more, as you put it, profitable goal. I enjoy playing video games, but there are times when I sincerely question the whole point of it. I know I am entertaining myself, perhaps distracting myself from a mundane existence... but in reality it's a waste of time and accomplishes nothing of any real value for myself. In fact all the time I spent playing these games, the countless thousands of hours accumulated over the years could have been used doing something truly beneficial for myself, or even others. I could have even used those hours to focus on true artistic endeavors. I like to write poetry, I could have very well honed my poetic craft or spent time learning how to better utilize digital photo software. Anyway, point is that your statement is ever so true and it's something we should all take a look at within ourselves. Awake! |
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Post by egodiabolus on Apr 21, 2010 21:26:36 GMT -6
All the time and energy spent and wasted could be redirected toward a more, as you put it, profitable goal. I enjoy playing video games, but there are times when I sincerely question the whole point of it. I know I am entertaining myself, perhaps distracting myself from a mundane existence... but in reality it's a waste of time and accomplishes nothing of any real value for myself. In fact all the time I spent playing these games, the countless thousands of hours accumulated over the years could have been used doing something truly beneficial for myself, or even others. I could have even used those hours to focus on true artistic endeavors. I like to write poetry, I could have very well honed my poetic craft or spent time learning how to better utilize digital photo software.
The good news is that no one expects us to be engaged in profitability 100% of the time. The idea of "work" also implies the idea of "rest", thus we can choose not to work as easily as we choose to work. We only need avoid slipping into inactivity and sleep. It requires discipline of a sort, say instead of choosing to work for a certain number of hours each day, we reach a point where we only rest a certain number of hours each day.
This would be real progress.
By His Loathsome Tentacles!
Ego Diabolus
Priest of R'lyeh
Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by Sarak G'hash on Apr 22, 2010 3:36:26 GMT -6
All the time and energy spent and wasted could be redirected toward a more, as you put it, profitable goal. I enjoy playing video games, but there are times when I sincerely question the whole point of it. I know I am entertaining myself, perhaps distracting myself from a mundane existence... but in reality it's a waste of time and accomplishes nothing of any real value for myself. In fact all the time I spent playing these games, the countless thousands of hours accumulated over the years could have been used doing something truly beneficial for myself, or even others. I could have even used those hours to focus on true artistic endeavors. I like to write poetry, I could have very well honed my poetic craft or spent time learning how to better utilize digital photo software.
The good news is that no one expects us to be engaged in profitability 100% of the time. The idea of "work" also implies the idea of "rest", thus we can choose not to work as easily as we choose to work. We only need avoid slipping into inactivity and sleep. It requires discipline of a sort, say instead of choosing to work for a certain number of hours each day, we reach a point where we only rest a certain number of hours each day.
This would be real progress.
By His Loathsome Tentacles!
Ego Diabolus
Priest of R'lyeh
Cult of Cthulhu
Well, if that's the case, I've been there for quite a while. One cannot work at total capacity without some amount of rest to restore ones physical energy! Total exhaustion accomplishes nothing. Awake! |
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Post by nixx on Apr 22, 2010 5:37:25 GMT -6
I second that, Sarak G'hash! I tend to push myself more & more with less rest constantly. I used to do so by consuming much coffee & caffeine supplements, however, now I am working on doing it without the drugs. I still use 5 hour Energy when I'm at work to get me through the latter half of my shift, but for the most part, I haven't consumed any caffeine beyond that in almost a month.
The Work is helping me do this to a greater degree, but it is also revealing things about myself that I had absolutely no idea about & encouraging others to do so. It seems that there is an instinctual response in humans that when they see another trying to push themselves to improve or are struggling, they feel the need to confront them with issues they may have with that person. This tendency infuriates me, but I realized the last time it happened that it is really an opportunity for growth. This particular incident I'm referring to brought to light a source of suffering both for myself & my family, & now I have the opportunity to work on it.
So, while suffering can be a yoke & a torment, it is also an opportunity for evolution of our true selves beyond the machine. Suffering teaches us about our machine, how we learn our lessons teaches us about the being locked within.
Awake!
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Post by egodiabolus on Apr 22, 2010 7:49:00 GMT -6
As long as we keep in mind that work and rest should be a conscious effort or decision, and that we are generally capable of working more than resting, then rest is not only tolerable, it is necessary.
But, work need not be purely physical. For example, I may work as a tattoo artist, and choose to also exercise on a regular basis. When not doing these things, I do work maintaining my home. I tinker with some electrical items, and I work on those. I have my on-line obligations; maintenance of my website, responding to my email, the business aspect of tattooing, this is also work. My occult and philosophical studies are work. My efforts as an artist is work. During all of this, I am observing myself as much as possible, trying to remember myself and stay Awake by not identifying, not loosing myself in my activities. This too is work.
When I say "rest", I don't mean simply sitting down to relax. That may be the case, but even then I would find something to do like draw or try to stop thoughts in my mind. When I say "rest", I mean choosing to engage in an activity where I am going to loose myself in it, where the activity is frivolous. Lately, it has been watching the X-files or playing Silent Hill.
The reason I discuss this fine line is the mention of "exhaustion". My efforts over-lap and are near continuous, but I do not experience exhaustion because I am always changing the direction of my effort. It is like body-building; if I have a limited amount of time to work-out, I could work my biceps with arm-curls to exhaustion and then rest, or I could do that work-out then work out another part of the body. The latter is more efficient.
And we all have a limited amount of time.
I guess that if you find yourself doing something, and then telling yourself you need to stop and rest after just one activity, it would be worth while to evaluate that "I" and determine if it is profiting you. I am certain most of the people in this forum understand this, but it is worth explaining for those who do not.
Awake!
Ego Diabolus
Priest of R'lyeh
Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by Sarak G'hash on Apr 22, 2010 14:13:06 GMT -6
As long as we keep in mind that work and rest should be a conscious effort or decision, and that we are generally capable of working more than resting, then rest is not only tolerable, it is necessary.
But, work need not be purely physical. For example, I may work as a tattoo artist, and choose to also exercise on a regular basis. When not doing these things, I do work maintaining my home. I tinker with some electrical items, and I work on those. I have my on-line obligations; maintenance of my website, responding to my email, the business aspect of tattooing, this is also work. My occult and philosophical studies are work. My efforts as an artist is work. During all of this, I am observing myself as much as possible, trying to remember myself and stay Awake by not identifying, not loosing myself in my activities. This too is work.
When I say "rest", I don't mean simply sitting down to relax. That may be the case, but even then I would find something to do like draw or try to stop thoughts in my mind. When I say "rest", I mean choosing to engage in an activity where I am going to loose myself in it, where the activity is frivolous. Lately, it has been watching the X-files or playing Silent Hill.
The reason I discuss this fine line is the mention of "exhaustion". My efforts over-lap and are near continuous, but I do not experience exhaustion because I am always changing the direction of my effort. It is like body-building; if I have a limited amount of time to work-out, I could work my biceps with arm-curls to exhaustion and then rest, or I could do that work-out then work out another part of the body. The latter is more efficient.
And we all have a limited amount of time.
I guess that if you find yourself doing something, and then telling yourself you need to stop and rest after just one activity, it would be worth while to evaluate that "I" and determine if it is profiting you. I am certain most of the people in this forum understand this, but it is worth explaining for those who do not.
Awake!
Ego Diabolus
Priest of R'lyeh
Cult of Cthulhu
Ah!!! A fellow X-Files fan!!! I understand what you are saying about resting. Sometimes it is hard to shut off work mode but it has to be done at times. Rest IS necessary at times but i don't really need that much myself these days. I enjoy losing myself in video slot machines or a really good book. Sometimes it's fishing. Awake! |
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Apr 22, 2010 19:24:16 GMT -6
All the time and energy spent and wasted could be redirected toward a more, as you put it, profitable goal. I enjoy playing video games, but there are times when I sincerely question the whole point of it. I know I am entertaining myself, perhaps distracting myself from a mundane existence... but in reality it's a waste of time and accomplishes nothing of any real value for myself. In fact all the time I spent playing these games, the countless thousands of hours accumulated over the years could have been used doing something truly beneficial for myself, or even others. I could have even used those hours to focus on true artistic endeavors. I like to write poetry, I could have very well honed my poetic craft or spent time learning how to better utilize digital photo software.
The good news is that no one expects us to be engaged in profitability 100% of the time. The idea of "work" also implies the idea of "rest", thus we can choose not to work as easily as we choose to work. We only need avoid slipping into inactivity and sleep. It requires discipline of a sort, say instead of choosing to work for a certain number of hours each day, we reach a point where we only rest a certain number of hours each day.
This would be real progress.
By His Loathsome Tentacles!
Ego Diabolus
Priest of R'lyeh
Cult of Cthulhu
Oh, I completely agree. One does need to rest as constant and continued work will "burn" you out fast, whether physical, emotional, or spiritual. We aren't gods, not yet...  I was merely sharing an observation I made pertaining to my own life. I'm definitely one for a good bit of fun and entertainment and I don't plan on giving up any of the things I enjoy. Awake! |
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Post by nektanabus on Apr 25, 2010 0:18:36 GMT -6
Dark Greetings,
Thanx for the replies.
Ego Diabolus' reply was very enlightening.
I understand the suffering on our behalf and I know all too well that there are those who benefit from our labors who are very undeserving, the parasites, etc. This to me involves the area ov mankind, not so much the "Universe."
But in terms of the Universe feeding upon our suffering and the mechanics behind it... I am still without complete understanding ov why it would be termed as such. I mean is this just a matter ov semantics?
If we are calling our immediate surroundings the "Universe" then I realize it brings it to a different level but it still seems as though we are speaking ov a "thing" which feeds upon our energy in order to sustain itself (which would also entail growth I would think).
If we are talking in terms of the Universe in more astronomical terms as you mentioned the planets, the Sun, etc. then this would be on a different level as well.
Would the "Universe" not exist, sustain itself, or grow even if insignificant bi-peds were not inhabiting this planet?
And if we are talking about our immediate surroundings, people, corporations, etc. Well, surely on a "people" level all ov this plays out in a food chain format but that term is normally "world" as in "it's a dog eat dog world", not Universe...
See what I mean?
If you take people out ov the equation, what exactly are we talking about in terms of the "Universe?"
PS. Ego Diabolus, I once used your Baphomet Codex as a foundational text for the building ov a local occult group. That text is epic on many levels. Great Work!
Awake!
Nektanabus
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Post by egodiabolus on Apr 25, 2010 22:21:58 GMT -6
Dark Greetings, Thanx for the replies. Ego Diabolus' reply was very enlightening. I understand the suffering on our behalf and I know all too well that there are those who benefit from our labors who are very undeserving, the parasites, etc. This to me involves the area ov mankind, not so much the "Universe." But in terms of the Universe feeding upon our suffering and the mechanics behind it... I am still without complete understanding ov why it would be termed as such. I mean is this just a matter ov semantics? If we are calling our immediate surroundings the "Universe" then I realize it brings it to a different level but it still seems as though we are speaking ov a "thing" which feeds upon our energy in order to sustain itself (which would also entail growth I would think). If we are talking in terms of the Universe in more astronomical terms as you mentioned the planets, the Sun, etc. then this would be on a different level as well. Would the "Universe" not exist, sustain itself, or grow even if insignificant bi-peds were not inhabiting this planet? And if we are talking about our immediate surroundings, people, corporations, etc. Well, surely on a "people" level all ov this plays out in a food chain format but that term is normally "world" as in "it's a dog eat dog world", not Universe... See what I mean? If you take people out ov the equation, what exactly are we talking about in terms of the "Universe?" PS. Ego Diabolus, I once used your Baphomet Codex as a foundational text for the building ov a local occult group. That text is epic on many levels. Great Work! Awake! Nektanabus
Semantics may be exactly what is the issue here. "Suffering" in this instance means laboring under restrictions set outside ourselves. Astral bodies are not "free" to move and be on their own volition, they are governed by the greater objects and forces that surround them. The Moon suffers under the Earth's gravity, the Earth under the Sun's, and so on. More forces are involved from one tier to the next; the further down the chain you go, the more levels of governance exist, and the greater the suffering.
I theorize that we are not necessary in this chain. Life plays a role in this chain, but in other star-systems devoid of life this idea of "suffering" still applies. As life forms, we are in a unique position to experience this chain of suffering. As intelligent life, again not a requirement of this process, our position is even more unique. Life and intelligence may exist elsewhere, but like my discussion of a relative universe, our unique state is relative to our immediate experience. Mars and Venus fall under similar conditions to the Earth in regards to suffering, but lack the facet of intelligent life.
As you know from my Baphomet Codex, I view our awareness as an expression of the awareness of reality. It is one emanation of it, the awareness of the totality is levels beyond our understanding. Ours may be a fortunate aberration in the scheme of things. It is one of the things I think may be best not to question.
The universe, the mechanical aspect of the universe, would have things do what they are told to do and remain as they are. It can be like a current, flowing in one direction. We are lucky to have the potential to change, but that change means resisting that current. This, at least initially, creates suffering. We already labor under the laws of others, both necessary and unnecessary, because of our unique position. By resisting the current of what is unnecessary, we become better a part of the current that is.
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
Ego Diabolus
Priest of R'lyeh
Cult of Cthulhu |
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Post by nektanabus on Apr 29, 2010 6:18:42 GMT -6
Ego Diabolus,
Thanx again for addressing this topic.
Look forward getting a copy ov your updated version ov your Baphomet Codex!
Take care and stay in touch.
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
Nektanabus
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Post by Apsara Kamalli on May 30, 2010 18:39:38 GMT -6
Priest Ego - “The universe, the mechanical aspect of the universe, would have things do what they are told to do and remain as they are. It can be like a current, flowing in one direction. We are lucky to have the potential to change, but that change means resisting that current. This, at least initially, creates suffering. We already labor under the laws of others, both necessary and unnecessary, because of our unique position. By resisting the current of what is unnecessary, we become better a part of the current that is.”
Please correct me if I misunderstand your post, but how do we know that by resisting the current, we aren't actually, as you stated, doing what the universe told us to do? How do we know that our suffering in the resistance isn't exactly what the universe would have us do in the first place?
Awake!
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Post by egodiabolus on Jun 15, 2010 14:13:43 GMT -6
Priest Ego - “The universe, the mechanical aspect of the universe, would have things do what they are told to do and remain as they are. It can be like a current, flowing in one direction. We are lucky to have the potential to change, but that change means resisting that current. This, at least initially, creates suffering. We already labor under the laws of others, both necessary and unnecessary, because of our unique position. By resisting the current of what is unnecessary, we become better a part of the current that is.”
Please correct me if I misunderstand your post, but how do we know that by resisting the current, we aren't actually, as you stated, doing what the universe told us to do? How do we know that our suffering in the resistance isn't exactly what the universe would have us do in the first place?
Awake!
We can observe, however, that different currents exist, and that we have some limited control of what currents we find ourselves within. For most people, almost all influence is external; they are asleep, being carried forward in time to the inevitable doom while taking little meaningful interest in the present. Some of us seek to influence our existence through our internal drives. We accomplish this by building up those drives within ourselves and actively participating in our lives. We become aware of ourselves, the world (and influences) around us, and use our internal influence to navigate through those external currents.
True reversal of the currents, a backward progression through time, is thus far apparently impossible. We do not, however, need to simply be carried forward by the current we are in. We can flow "sideways" into a current that is more aligned with our aims. The argument could be made that, as we are each a result of past choices, our internal urges and the will to strengthen them are also results of the overall current. This may be the case, but it makes no difference. Choice could be a delusion (who knows?), but it appears far better to indulge the delusion of choice than to exist without it. Why wouldn't the over-urge of the universe be evolution on all levels and scales?
The past is gone, our present is already decided, which leaves us only the future to change. I can do nothing now, but I can be involved in the nature of the future, whether it is the immediate future or the distant future. Our real aim must be to use what we have to build monuments to ourselves in time, so that our presence on the future is felt well after our names are forgotten. The degree to which we all accomplish these aims will vary, based on our effort, our talents, and what it is that we will find satisfying. Some will need to create sweeping changes in the social paradigm that will reverberate through law, society, even modes of thinking. Others will be content knowing that their values, their ideas, and their practices will live on in their children.
Much discussion is given to humanity becoming a star-fairing species. I believe that where our real evolution lies is in our awakening to our potential as chrono-engineers; shaping the future through our efforts in the present. When humanity's focus is on our present state of affairs, it becomes mired in senselessness; wars over religious differences, being right in a political debate instead of doing what is needed, banking on things always being as they are today. When the focus of the species becomes the future of the species in a real sense, that is when humanity will truly blossom.
Personally, I am not waiting on everyone else.
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
Ego Diabolus
Priest of R'lyeh
Cult of Cthulhu |
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I was merely sharing an observation I made pertaining to my own life. I'm definitely one for a good bit of fun and entertainment and I don't plan on giving up any of the things I enjoy.