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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 4, 2010 21:14:53 GMT -6
1 post, 1 karma. Impressive... most impressive.
Thanks for detailing some of your experiences with The Work. I agree that in the beginning, it's easier to remember yourself when physically separated from people, your routine, and everyday surroundings.
The challenge, however, is to eventually practice self-remembering while speaking with others, doing the same things you always do, ensconced in familiarity. This is difficult, but not impossible.
I'd like to delve deeper into the emotional center. Anyone, including the original poster, want to share their struggles with understanding this portion of the self?
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by lucofthelight on Apr 4, 2010 23:25:26 GMT -6
No worries Venger. Cheers! I do agree with you about trying to self remember whilst doing the usual things in life and I am slowly trying to bring it in to everyday situations. I do try and do it whilst driving and working and bit by bit whilst talking with people. It is unusual in the beginning but would you say it gets easier as one gets use to it? As far as the emotional center goes I have had some experience with it, usually trying to divert myself from expressing negative emotions. I find the hardest part not necessarily stopping the expression of these emotions outwardly but the inward expression of them. What I mean by that is, the tensing of muscles, the habitual internal negative thought patterns and feelings of hopelessness. In me, I find these things harder to control than the external expression as I've always maintained a pretty cool and calm exterior. These things are going to be a challenge for me but I know I can overcome them. Recently I was observing some of my internal thoughts and feelings and realized they stemmed from a few unpleasant situatons from several years ago, and I tend to replay them with negative emotion tied to them. A bunch of memories came flooding back from that time and mistakes I made, etc. The positive part is that I can now see that I was really asleep back then, hence making all those stupid mistakes. So I can see now that things just happen to us, we have hardly any control in a sleep state. Can anyone suggest any workable technique to put certain past negative thoughts and emotions to rest as they present themselves?
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Post by egodiabolus on Apr 5, 2010 13:34:41 GMT -6
My dealing with negative emotions begins with (and continues with) observation. These negative emotions move so much faster than my ability to observe that usually I am already in the midst of their expression (coming down from it, normally), and can only really explore them after-the-fact. My research, however, suggests that this is normal. The way to deal with negative emotions is first, to come to the conclusion though observation that they are useless and not a natural aspect of our essence and then take steps to prepare for the emotional landmines that lead to their expression.
My personal example would be the mention of my girlfriend's (of 6 years) ex-husband. She went through a long and messy divorce, some of which we are dealing with to this day. The mere mention of this man would lead to feelings of suspicion, anger, jealousy, contempt, etc, and I thought I was right to feel these things, that this was a natural result of what we had been through because of this man.
Now, this person had worked to cause us harm. He continues to be a source of difficulty. However, this does not mean that I need to feel anger because of him. In fact, feeling anger only clouds the issue and makes things more difficult. I have had to make an effort before hand to ensure that when dealing with this person or issues related to this person that my focus would be on the issue at hand and not the anger or frustration I once believed was my right to feel.
The reduction and management of these negative emotions has allowed me to experience what must be the correct function of my true emotional center. Negative emotions are not a part of the emotional center, they are artificial responses we "learn" through imitation. The right working of my emotional center instead allows me to empathize with my girlfriend during these moments, understanding her pain as she deals with these same issues. It also allows me to help mitigate her own negative emotions; suggesting more rational possibilities to an issue when her frustration leads her to a sense of hopelessness or feelings of impotence. It is not a prideful thing or a condescending thing, but rather the ability to be useful and comforting whereas before my own rage made me just as much a source of her pain as the issues with her ex.
I also used to find myself limiting my effort to self-remember to just certain periods or activities. This is a great first step. Ideally, self-remembering occurs as often as possible. My day is now punctuated by continual moments of thinking "I am here". Not every moment is one of consciousness, but I find myself being observant more often and more easily than just a few short months ago.
Awake!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of CThulhu
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Post by lucofthelight on Apr 5, 2010 15:08:54 GMT -6
Thankyou egodiabolus! Your own personal example has unclouded my thinking in regards to the emotional centre. I am actually in a similar circumstance with my girlfriend(4 years) and her ex-husband so I can relate to your example. In fact, this is one of the areas of my life I'm beginning to get on top emotionally and your answer has helped me to understand I'm on the right path. One can think much more rationally when not bogged down by negativity and be a true aid where needed most. It's encouraging to hear that you are becoming conscious more often by self remembering, so I'll work to implement this into my life more often.
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Post by beastx on Apr 6, 2010 11:56:41 GMT -6
First let me state, that no one here is wrong. lucofthelight your grasp of The Work is impressive. Priest of R'lyeh Ego Diabolus, it goes without saying that I am always approaching you with the highest respect. I believe perhaps there has been such a focus on the Fourth Way as presented by Gurdjieff and Ouspenski, we've lost the fact that the CoC has chosen to make this a core in OUR philosophy. This embrace has been rightly enthusiastic, however it has over shadowed some of the other core parts of this paradigm.
Satanism and Chaos Magick are smaller fragments of this core as it is presented, however they are there and in good measure. Our efforts are often directed to the suppression of negative emotion. We then equate this to meaning a complete denial and removal of these said emotions. This in my best estimation is completely working against what we are trying to achieve here. In the beginning of The Work it is a completely necessary tool as these emotions are super-charged and react lightning fast. Making it most difficult to break from the mechanical sequence that typically follows. For a smaller period of time repression of these is beneficial to the Mastery, beyond that the damage it can cause could potentially deadly. Admittedly I have not read ALL of Gurdjieff and Ouspenski's writings on the work. I however think they would probably agree with what I am going to suggest.
Energy cannot be destroyed. It can only be transformed and manipulated. I hope everyone can agree with this principal. If you cannot then please give an example of it being destroyed. So what do you believe happens to these negative emotions as we suppress them? They manifest anyway in another form (physical, spiritual, emotional) without our conscious direction of it. This can been seen as the development of a new function. However all "functions" suggest mechanical states. Clearly if we are to truly Master the Self, we need to completely redirect this negativity. It should never be allowed to randomly manifest. From start to finish we should be a Aware conductor. High Priest Satanis' wisdom is illustrated here as he has given us methods in which we can be a good conductor. Satanism or Chaos Magick provide a variety of methods.
Thoughts?
Beast Xeno First Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by carcosannoble on Apr 6, 2010 12:13:32 GMT -6
I agree Beast Xeno, repression is a wonderful way to be destroyed from the inside out, wonderful in that it should happen to our enemies. We should definitely be channeling or transforming the negative emotions that afflict us, either to our benefit or to the harm of others. I do not have any widely viable techniques to share, so my advice is to be patient and stay aware of how things are affecting you. As it's said, "stop forgetting yourself." *laughs*
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 6, 2010 12:38:15 GMT -6
I'm sure all of us can imagine the enjoyment on our enemy's face when they get us all spun up and angry and frustrated. Our enemies like the fact that we're reacting to their words or actions. It gives them power.
So how do we take their power away?
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by egodiabolus on Apr 6, 2010 15:37:34 GMT -6
Energy cannot be destroyed. It can only be transformed and manipulated. I hope everyone can agree with this principal. If you cannot then please give an example of it being destroyed. So what do you believe happens to these negative emotions as we suppress them? They manifest anyway in another form (physical, spiritual, emotional) without our conscious direction of it. This can been seen as the development of a new function. However all "functions" suggest mechanical states. Clearly if we are to truly Master the Self, we need to completely redirect this negativity. It should never be allowed to randomly manifest. From start to finish we should be a Aware conductor. High Priest Satanis' wisdom is illustrated here as he has given us methods in which we can be a good conductor. Satanism or Chaos Magick provide a variety of methods.
In the beginning, when dealing with negative emotion, it is my understanding that the goal is simply not to express them. You may experience them internally, but seek to limit their expression. You observe the negative emotion as much as possible; where does it come from and what purpose does it serve?
Is anger an energy, or rather is it an expression fueled by energy? If it is the former, then the expression of anger can be used as a fuel to achieve certain ends, but it would seem to me that its use also tends to lead to subsidiary results that we did not expect or plan for. Furthermore, the explosive nature of anger could lead a person who tends to fuel their actions with it to find that when more subtle or less volatile energies are needed anger is all they have... or at least is the quickest to appear. In those instances the results could be disastrous.
If it is the latter; not energy but on optional expression of energy, then we have to ask if emotions like anger are the most effective expression of this energy, or if the energy could be better used in another manner if we learned how? In both theories, the energy is not being destroyed or even suppressed. The individual is evaluating their options and making a choice. Can anger be controlled, is it efficient to attempt to do so, or are other options more beneficial in the former example? Is the expression of anger the most efficient use of my energies in the latter?
In the end, it is about control. If a man wrongs me, it is rational to seek justice, to reap my own justice if no other venue presents itself. A man hits me, and I could get angry. I could rage and attack them, becoming a fury and destroying them. Is that my intent? Or would my intent be to simply ensure that this man never strikes me again? This may still mean retaliation; indeed the result might still be the destruction of this individual, but instead of doing it through anger, might it be more efficient to do this simply as a thing which needs to be done? The energy expended in the display of rage may impress others, but does it contribute to my end? In my rage to beat him with my fists, might I miss the sharp stick that would do the job and keep me from potentially damaging my hands?
I don't know. At one time I would say that the fury displayed would be a sign to others not to make the same mistake that this fool has made. Now, I see things differently. I know that in my anger, I have often lost sight of my goal, and would often do more damage than I intended. I seek control. This route, at least for me, seems to offer it.
By His Loathsome Tentacles!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by beastx on Apr 6, 2010 16:29:37 GMT -6
In the beginning, when dealing with negative emotion, it is my understanding that the goal is simply not to express them. You may experience them internally, but seek to limit their expression. You observe the negative emotion as much as possible; where does it come from and what purpose does it serve? I completely agree and often this is viewed as a suppressive act. I am clearly denoting the intent is to gain an understanding of it.Honestly Priest of R'lyeh Ego Diabolus, I think the two are the same. It is both the raw field of energy and our expression of it. You are 100% correct any instant mechanized reaction from the ordinary man, will undoubtedly have adverse effects. Undoubtedly the words of a Master, however it is my intent to give some viable methods for redistribution of these energies and clarify to those in progress of this transformation. For you it is clearly as simple as plugging it into your formula and proceeding as your analysis proves logical. However these negative energies have the potential of being like a cobra. Unseen and unheard coiled and waiting unsuspected. Striking so fast, so viciously and in the end of it reaping causalities completely undesired. So you agree.The whole point of this was to show the true nature of OUR philosophy. We should never act out of anger. We should when the time is right (only when it is right) use this energy to serve a greater purpose of self. Lord Satanis gave a great notion... Diffusion. Sometimes however the juice is worth the squeeze.
The Cthulhu Cult Shall NEVER Die!!!
Beast Xeno First Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by K'zin Z'tari on Apr 6, 2010 17:51:33 GMT -6
Anger must be controlled,after I learned to control my anger life has become a lot easier and if man feels that he is angry alot then he must learn to control it
Awake
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Post by carcosannoble on Apr 6, 2010 23:06:42 GMT -6
First things first. This is from your little website, G'pock R'han. What is the meaning of it?If you have a better way to go about things, then please enlighten us. I encourage you then to reread the website, as I make it abundantly clear that my path is guided by The Last King, and only by knowing him do you have access to it's fullness. It would be disingenuous of me to lie, saying that I have a better way, when it would be a hollow endeavor, at best, for people who do not have his favor. Your way is good for you and it is not my intention to steer you from it. Trust that I am on my best behavior, that I find your truths to be interesting and worthwhile and that I feel the Cult is a valid entity. I am here to encourage its growth. If you can't take some playful ribbing from an ally, how well will you fair against your enemies?
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 7, 2010 11:18:04 GMT -6
Good stuff.
I just wanted to know where we stand. Thanks for the explanation.
Information determines what is and what isn't playful ribbing, an ally, or an enemy. Now, I think we have sufficient information to proceed...
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by nixx on Apr 13, 2010 13:26:37 GMT -6
This is an excellent discussion & I've enjoyed reading it. In my own work of self-observation, I've noticed that I can generally catch the negative emotions before they are expressed, as long as they are not one of my triggers. There are certain things & certain people that just set me off; I know we all have them. When I'm faced with these situations, it becomes almost like wrestling an enraged anaconda not to react, but to actually think, observe, & make a conscious choice in how to deal with the situation. I've developed a twitch that happens whenever my observer "I" identifies a negative thought or reaction & this action helps in reminding myself not to express it. I'm working on getting it to the next step where the twitch is not required as this has become an almost involuntary action associated with this observation.
I've found that I store the energy associated with negative emotions instead of wasting it in expression. This energy then gets channeled back into my being for more constructive uses. This method has worked incredibly well for me, as this energy belongs to us & not the universe & should not be squandered on it. I also use this energy to push myself into an Awakened moment, & this has also worked admirably well. I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but practicing these techniques often has led me to being much calmer & more focused. The little things don't bother me as much any more & the big things are much more manageable. I understand that these are still reactionary & I'm working on trying to rewrite the program as it were so I can manifest constructive things into my life as opposed to just reacting to what the universe feeds me.
No One Comes to Yog-Sothoth, but Through Him!
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Post by lucofthelight on Apr 13, 2010 15:25:54 GMT -6
This is an excellent discussion & I've enjoyed reading it. In my own work of self-observation, I've noticed that I can generally catch the negative emotions before they are expressed, as long as they are not one of my triggers. There are certain things & certain people that just set me off; I know we all have them. When I'm faced with these situations, it becomes almost like wrestling an enraged anaconda not to react, but to actually think, observe, & make a conscious choice in how to deal with the situation. I've developed a twitch that happens whenever my observer "I" identifies a negative thought or reaction & this action helps in reminding myself not to express it. I'm working on getting it to the next step where the twitch is not required as this has become an almost involuntary action associated with this observation. I've found that I store the energy associated with negative emotions instead of wasting it in expression. This energy then gets channeled back into my being for more constructive uses. This method has worked incredibly well for me, as this energy belongs to us & not the universe & should not be squandered on it. I also use this energy to push myself into an Awakened moment, & this has also worked admirably well. I'm not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but practicing these techniques often has led me to being much calmer & more focused. The little things don't bother me as much any more & the big things are much more manageable. I understand that these are still reactionary & I'm working on trying to rewrite the program as it were so I can manifest constructive things into my life as opposed to just reacting to what the universe feeds me. No One Comes to Yog-Sothoth, but Through Him! That sounds like a great way to channel your energy and is something I will try myself. Making good use of the energy we save would be an excellent source for channeling into being more conscious. By his Loathsome tentacles!
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Post by nixx on Apr 14, 2010 5:02:13 GMT -6
To take my comments a step further, I applied self-remembering in a ritual I did last night & it totally supercharged the experience. I've always had the understanding that one had to alter their consciousness when working a ritual & go into a light trance which is what I generally do. This time, I went for an Awakened state & the energy rush I got was out of this world!
This leads me to the hypothesis that we can achieve the same or better results through intense connection with the moment instead of trying to disconnect & go into a more passive state. It may also be due to the system I work with which tends to have a life of its own & doesn't require much in the way of visualization; it just tends to work.
Anyway, thought I'd share that.
When the Stars Are Right!
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Post by lucofthelight on Apr 14, 2010 15:54:44 GMT -6
Daera'La'Iyath, I think it definately helps to be in the moment and awake within the ritual context because you are creating ripples of change through the universe and the more awake you can be to design what you desire the more successful the outcome. I'm a big believer in that. And I think the more awake you are the more power you can command. I've noticed this in day to day life also. Since making real efforts to awaken in my workplace I find co-workers respecting my opinions and points of view a lot more. It makes me feel like they consider me a leader and a good example. This is one of the external shifts that has become quite noticeable. I also feel a lot more comfortable in my skin as I trust myself more and have higher self respect due to my increasing self knowledge. I'm not really even trying to change things at the moment, just observing, yet I find truths about myself spontaneously popping into my head as I've increased my observations and self remembering. I'm finding I have more energy as well and feel a build up of momentum carrying me forward with increased enthusiasm to practice the Work. I am curious as to the type of magic you practice. It sounds very interesting. One of the potential traps I've found with self observation is that it is pretty easy to confuse the centers. You might think that you are observing the emotional center yet it is really the instintual/sensation center. For example if I am at work and the radio is so loud that I can't even hear my own thoughts then this may lead to annoyance on my behalf. I may consider this observing my emotional center. But on closer examination it really may be the instinctual center as the noise is invading my sense of hearing leading to confusion if I am trying to concentrate. From what I understand the instinctual center picks up thinks like loud or soft, hot or cold, fight or flight. I thought it might be an interesting point to bring up as it seems that it can be a common mistake to confuse one center for another. Does anyone have thoughts on this? I have to get ready for work. By his loathsome tentacles!
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Post by Kyuubi on Apr 18, 2010 22:19:48 GMT -6
When speaking about the radio you said this seems like an emotional center. Can you explain why at first glance you see this? I would agree with the second statement about instinct being an issue.
Your centers are tricky places.
On second though does it matter if we can classify what we are working with? It seems comparable to chaos magick. "If it works just do it. Who needs titles."
Great concept. Great comments.
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Post by lucofthelight on Apr 19, 2010 3:35:20 GMT -6
When speaking about the radio you said this seems like an emotional center. Can you explain why at first glance you see this? I would agree with the second statement about instinct being an issue. Your centers are tricky places. On second though does it matter if we can classify what we are working with? It seems comparable to chaos magick. "If it works just do it. Who needs titles." Great concept. Great comments. Thanks for the nice comments brother! You've presented some great questions here. In my opinion I think it is a useful tool to classify what we are looking at within ourselves. To know which center we are observing at each moment would help to build specific self knowledge that relates to that center, therein leading to true, correct knowledge of ourselves. If we were to confuse the centers, or begin to blend them all together, this could lead us down the path of incorrect knowledge of ourselves and confusion. This would result in wasted time and effort. The whole idea of the fourth way is to observe and know our machines to awaken consciousness. The fourth way deals with all the centers(instinctual,moving,emotional and intellectual)so as to achieve mastery over our entire machine. With other 'ways' we may be able to 'awaken' consciousness but with incorrect knowledge of ourselves we may not be able to understand or do anything. I work in a noisy environment with machinery going a lot of the time. The radio is usually pretty loud to carry over the sound of the machines and I have a job where I have to concentrate on what I'm doing pretty carefully. Also, I get people asking me questions quite often about work. Now with all this noise going on and having to concentrate I sometimes get irritated and annoyed because I can't hear what the person is asking me. I'm feeling a bit of tension in my body, I'm straining to hear them talk, I'm feeling stressed out. So initially, at first glance I would assume with self observation that I am observing my emotional center due to the feelings of stress and irritation. However, on closer examination this could be an instinctual center issue. The noise is so loud that I want to get out of there to a quieter place where my body begins to relax again and my level of irritation drops away. I think I was confusing my reaction to the noise as an emotional response due to the feeling of stress and irritation. However, the emotional response was a secondary issue which seemed to stem from the instinctual bombardment of noise. It certainly can be tricky to differentiate what is going on as they are all connected and affect each other. This is why I think this is a great concept to explore. Ia Ia Cthulhu Ftagn!
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Post by nixx on Apr 19, 2010 5:14:19 GMT -6
I run into similar issues as well, luc. I also work in a highly noisy environment & have custom fit earplugs which do an awesome job of keeping the noise levels down, but make it hard to hear the person next to you. Self-observation is difficult in these situations; I generally take an even more objective view than usual by first observing the environment & once that is done, moving my focus back to myself. What is going on around me is always there enough for me to be able to function & interact with it, but my major focus is on self-observation. Where I run into trouble is when I'm at home & there is not as much for me to focus on, or at least, the challenges are different. Work gives me enough to do so I can parcel out my focus with those things I have to do. This is admittedly falling into a structure, but structured activities are helpful when observing one's mechanical self, I've found. When dealing with others, sometimes the balance has to be adjusted a bit, but for the most part, I don't allow what's going on around me to get in the way of what I'm doing. Stress is a choice & once we understand its triggers, we can make the choice of giving into it or not. Awesome work, man, I thoroughly enjoy reading your observations.
Awake!
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Post by egodiabolus on Apr 20, 2010 13:48:07 GMT -6
Excellent posts, everyone. I just want to share with you a couple of thoughts.
Daera'La'Iyatha mentioned that dealing with negative emotions is more of an issue when dealing with "triggers"; things that are associated with consistent and strong negative reactions. When I wrote that just now, I almost made the mistake of describing triggers as causing these reactions. It is important to understand that the cause of our negative emotions is always within ourselves. If the cause were truly external then we would be machines with no hope of changing.
I would say that I have nothing but triggers when it comes to negative emotions. What I mean is, there are always certain circumstances which arise and place us in a position to make a choice; deal with the circumstances or have a negative emotional reaction. The circumstances we understand and prepare ourselves for in advance allow us to make the decision before we are overwhelmed by the negative emotion, but it is because we have chosen to understand those circumstances.
Daera'La'Iyatha's triggers are those circumstances he has chosen not to understand. It is not a slight against Daera'La'Iyatha, just an observation. Right now, he is in a place where he has chosen to face and deal with a number of things. He has convinced a number of "I"s to take control when these circumstances arise instead of the "I"s that experience the negative emotions. In order to do this, he has to have studied the circumstances, and his place within those circumstances, from several angles, so that he would recognize the harbingers of those circumstances in advance enough to make the mental shift.
The mention of my girlfriend's ex-husband was one such circumstance for me. I observed how my negative emotional reaction was not helping the situation of my relationship, no matter how I justified my anger or the necessity of the behavior. There was just no need. Once I understood this, I was able to lay the ground-work to avoid my tantrums in the future.
My daughter is very lackadaisical about her grades. It because an issue when I ask her about her slipping grades (when they do slip), and she gives me a non-answer. "I don't know" really burns me. I am still struggling with this, because a part of me has chosen not to fully understand it and my role in it. I think my anger and biting discussion about her grades will impress upon her the need to do better, but thus far it has only wasted several hours of my life each week. She has to choose to do the work, and I have to accept that it is ultimately her choice.
But, MAN, does it piss me off!
Observe, understand, and prepare. That is all we can do and expect to improve.
Armitage Raven Spider questioned the need to classify things like centers and particular types of energy. Let me try to explain it this way:
Without things to something what things are something, things have no something things in a something. Things will something what things something. Furthermore, by something a thing or thing through things, things, and things, things can something more about things something thing. With a thing and a thing, thing can something by something the thing into the thing and something it something thing. Thing will something, but not something. Thing can something a thing into a thing with a thing, but I will something something the thing in the thing. Of something it will something, but things might something thing to something. Thing something a "things" thing, but thing still something to something what things something thing something.
Definitions, titles, and classifications are important.
Without words to properly define what we are discussing, we have no way of exchanging ideas in a meaningful manner. No one else will know what we are saying. Furthermore, by being able to discuss a concept or process through words, titles, and classifications, we can learn more about their proper use. With a bucket of paint and a hammer, I can draw a picture by dipping the hammer into the paint and running it across paper. It will work, but not well. I can hammer a nail into a board with a paintbrush, but I will probably destroy the brush in the process. Of course it will work, but we might want it to work well. Chaos Magic is an "anything that works" philosophy, but you still have to understand what it is you are using.
Just some thoughts.
Awake!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by lucofthelight on Apr 20, 2010 15:18:21 GMT -6
Excellent posts, everyone. I just want to share with you a couple of thoughts.
Daera'La'Iyatha mentioned that dealing with negative emotions is more of an issue when dealing with "triggers"; things that are associated with consistent and strong negative reactions. When I wrote that just now, I almost made the mistake of describing triggers as causing these reactions. It is important to understand that the cause of our negative emotions is always within ourselves. If the cause were truly external then we would be machines with no hope of changing.
I would say that I have nothing but triggers when it comes to negative emotions. What I mean is, there are always certain circumstances which arise and place us in a position to make a choice; deal with the circumstances or have a negative emotional reaction. The circumstances we understand and prepare ourselves for in advance allow us to make the decision before we are overwhelmed by the negative emotion, but it is because we have chosen to understand those circumstances.
Daera'La'Iyatha's triggers are those circumstances he has chosen not to understand. It is not a slight against Daera'La'Iyatha, just an observation. Right now, he is in a place where he has chosen to face and deal with a number of things. He has convinced a number of "I"s to take control when these circumstances arise instead of the "I"s that experience the negative emotions. In order to do this, he has to have studied the circumstances, and his place within those circumstances, from several angles, so that he would recognize the harbingers of those circumstances in advance enough to make the mental shift.
The mention of my girlfriend's ex-husband was one such circumstance for me. I observed how my negative emotional reaction was not helping the situation of my relationship, no matter how I justified my anger or the necessity of the behavior. There was just no need. Once I understood this, I was able to lay the ground-work to avoid my tantrums in the future.
My daughter is very lackadaisical about her grades. It because an issue when I ask her about her slipping grades (when they do slip), and she gives me a non-answer. "I don't know" really burns me. I am still struggling with this, because a part of me has chosen not to fully understand it and my role in it. I think my anger and biting discussion about her grades will impress upon her the need to do better, but thus far it has only wasted several hours of my life each week. She has to choose to do the work, and I have to accept that it is ultimately her choice.
But, MAN, does it piss me off!
Observe, understand, and prepare. That is all we can do and expect to improve.
Armitage Raven Spider questioned the need to classify things like centers and particular types of energy. Let me try to explain it this way:
Without things to something what things are something, things have no something things in a something. Things will something what things something. Furthermore, by something a thing or thing through things, things, and things, things can something more about things something thing. With a thing and a thing, thing can something by something the thing into the thing and something it something thing. Thing will something, but not something. Thing can something a thing into a thing with a thing, but I will something something the thing in the thing. Of something it will something, but things might something thing to something. Thing something a "things" thing, but thing still something to something what things something thing something.
Definitions, titles, and classifications are important.
Without words to properly define what we are discussing, we have no way of exchanging ideas in a meaningful manner. No one else will know what we are saying. Furthermore, by being able to discuss a concept or process through words, titles, and classifications, we can learn more about their proper use. With a bucket of paint and a hammer, I can draw a picture by dipping the hammer into the paint and running it across paper. It will work, but not well. I can hammer a nail into a board with a paintbrush, but I will probably destroy the brush in the process. Of course it will work, but we might want it to work well. Chaos Magic is an "anything that works" philosophy, but you still have to understand what it is you are using.
Just some thoughts.
Awake!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
Exactly! I think it is called the law of identity. Without it a mouse could be a cat, a bathroom could be a kitchen, a tree could become a swimming pool. Without definitions and classifications communication would be extremely limited and knowledge would be virtually non-existent. When the stars are right!
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Post by lucofthelight on Apr 20, 2010 15:24:41 GMT -6
I run into similar issues as well, luc. I also work in a highly noisy environment & have custom fit earplugs which do an awesome job of keeping the noise levels down, but make it hard to hear the person next to you. Self-observation is difficult in these situations; I generally take an even more objective view than usual by first observing the environment & once that is done, moving my focus back to myself. What is going on around me is always there enough for me to be able to function & interact with it, but my major focus is on self-observation. Where I run into trouble is when I'm at home & there is not as much for me to focus on, or at least, the challenges are different. Work gives me enough to do so I can parcel out my focus with those things I have to do. This is admittedly falling into a structure, but structured activities are helpful when observing one's mechanical self, I've found. When dealing with others, sometimes the balance has to be adjusted a bit, but for the most part, I don't allow what's going on around me to get in the way of what I'm doing. Stress is a choice & once we understand its triggers, we can make the choice of giving into it or not. Awesome work, man, I thoroughly enjoy reading your observations. Awake! I agree with you wholeheartedly that stress is a choice. I'm beginning to see the triggers in myself now in relation to my environment. Thanks for the nice comments brother! By his loathsome tentacles!
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Apr 20, 2010 19:50:50 GMT -6
I'm one that has let negative emotion control a large portion of his life for quite some time. In fact I could say that negative emotion has attributed largely to the outcome of my life. Mostly I seem to be overtaken by fear and depression and at times my anger can be blinding. I've been a slave to my mechanical emotional response for all my life and only now am I beginning to understand that it's a choice whether or not I submit to these emotions and let them control me. By questioning them I can perhaps begin to understand just why I feel a certain why by a certain event or "trigger". So, I'll gladly take all the knowledge and wisdom you have to offer on the subject. Any exercises that any of you have to offer would be greatly appreciated.
I am taking the first step and realizing that I don't have to be afraid of the things that often caused me distress in the past. I acknowledge that I must examine the mechanical response of these emotions in order to understand then and re-direct this energy.
Awake!
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Post by lucofthelight on Apr 21, 2010 5:06:25 GMT -6
I'm one that has let negative emotion control a large portion of his life for quite some time. In fact I could say that negative emotion has attributed largely to the outcome of my life. Mostly I seem to be overtaken by fear and depression and at times my anger can be blinding. I've been a slave to my mechanical emotional response for all my life and only now am I beginning to understand that it's a choice whether or not I submit to these emotions and let them control me. By questioning them I can perhaps begin to understand just why I feel a certain why by a certain event or "trigger". So, I'll gladly take all the knowledge and wisdom you have to offer on the subject. Any exercises that any of you have to offer would be greatly appreciated. I am taking the first step and realizing that I don't have to be afraid of the things that often caused me distress in the past. I acknowledge that I must examine the mechanical response of these emotions in order to understand then and re-direct this energy. Awake! Self observation and self remembering are great exercises to do to know how your machine reacts to external circumstances. Consistent effort produces results and self knowledge unlike anything else I've personally practiced. If negativity overrides your being try not too express it outwardly. Refrain as best you can and eventually it gets easier. Perhaps practicing some meditation could help you relax and feel more tranquil so as not to get so angry about things. In a previous post in this thread I've given a couple of exercises. Try them if your interested, they do help to bring about calm and tranquility as well as a tool for self observation. If you haven't read them already I'd recommend several books; Cthulhu Cult and Liber A:O by High Priest Satanis. The Fourth Way and In search of the miraculous by P.D Ouspensky. The power of now by Eckhart Tolle. As far as personal development goes and changing negative patterns,from my perspective these books have been enlightening and life changing. Hope this helps!
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Post by nixx on Apr 21, 2010 20:08:08 GMT -6
Excellent posts, everyone. I just want to share with you a couple of thoughts.
Daera'La'Iyatha mentioned that dealing with negative emotions is more of an issue when dealing with "triggers"; things that are associated with consistent and strong negative reactions. When I wrote that just now, I almost made the mistake of describing triggers as causing these reactions. It is important to understand that the cause of our negative emotions is always within ourselves. If the cause were truly external then we would be machines with no hope of changing.
I would say that I have nothing but triggers when it comes to negative emotions. What I mean is, there are always certain circumstances which arise and place us in a position to make a choice; deal with the circumstances or have a negative emotional reaction. The circumstances we understand and prepare ourselves for in advance allow us to make the decision before we are overwhelmed by the negative emotion, but it is because we have chosen to understand those circumstances.
Daera'La'Iyatha's triggers are those circumstances he has chosen not to understand. It is not a slight against Daera'La'Iyatha, just an observation. Right now, he is in a place where he has chosen to face and deal with a number of things. He has convinced a number of "I"s to take control when these circumstances arise instead of the "I"s that experience the negative emotions. In order to do this, he has to have studied the circumstances, and his place within those circumstances, from several angles, so that he would recognize the harbingers of those circumstances in advance enough to make the mental shift.
The mention of my girlfriend's ex-husband was one such circumstance for me. I observed how my negative emotional reaction was not helping the situation of my relationship, no matter how I justified my anger or the necessity of the behavior. There was just no need. Once I understood this, I was able to lay the ground-work to avoid my tantrums in the future.
My daughter is very lackadaisical about her grades. It because an issue when I ask her about her slipping grades (when they do slip), and she gives me a non-answer. "I don't know" really burns me. I am still struggling with this, because a part of me has chosen not to fully understand it and my role in it. I think my anger and biting discussion about her grades will impress upon her the need to do better, but thus far it has only wasted several hours of my life each week. She has to choose to do the work, and I have to accept that it is ultimately her choice.
But, MAN, does it piss me off!
Observe, understand, and prepare. That is all we can do and expect to improve.
Thanks so much for your input, EgoDiabolus! You absolutely hit the nail on the head with your comments. I have gotten to the point where in these particular situations I can observe them as they are happening, but not to the point where I remember that I have a choice until after. It would be nice if we could handle our "I"'s in one sweeping gesture & deal with them all at once (& sometimes I think I entertain this fantasy before I see it for what it is, lol.), but each must be dealt with on an individual basis, classified, & given a place & function. That ties in with knowing your machine which I've only just begun to touch the tip of the iceberg in doing. I know how you feel with your daughter. My eldest son has similar issues & I have a similar reaction to it; not because it has any bearing on me, but for the fact that I myself went down a similar road in my youth & don't want to see him make the same mistakes, even though I know he has his own path to walk & can only process the information he receives in his own unique way & make his own unique choices. The consequences, good or bad, belong to him, not me, but I still feel the need to remind him nonetheless. I don't think we'd be good parents if we didn't. It's one of those nebulous "I"s that is constructive most of the time, but depending on the circumstances can get shifted a little off center. Thanks again for your comments & advice; both are greatly appreciated. When the Stars Are Right!
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Apr 21, 2010 20:10:24 GMT -6
I'm one that has let negative emotion control a large portion of his life for quite some time. In fact I could say that negative emotion has attributed largely to the outcome of my life. Mostly I seem to be overtaken by fear and depression and at times my anger can be blinding. I've been a slave to my mechanical emotional response for all my life and only now am I beginning to understand that it's a choice whether or not I submit to these emotions and let them control me. By questioning them I can perhaps begin to understand just why I feel a certain why by a certain event or "trigger". So, I'll gladly take all the knowledge and wisdom you have to offer on the subject. Any exercises that any of you have to offer would be greatly appreciated. I am taking the first step and realizing that I don't have to be afraid of the things that often caused me distress in the past. I acknowledge that I must examine the mechanical response of these emotions in order to understand then and re-direct this energy. Awake! Self observation and self remembering are great exercises to do to know how your machine reacts to external circumstances. Consistent effort produces results and self knowledge unlike anything else I've personally practiced. If negativity overrides your being try not too express it outwardly. Refrain as best you can and eventually it gets easier. Perhaps practicing some meditation could help you relax and feel more tranquil so as not to get so angry about things. In a previous post in this thread I've given a couple of exercises. Try them if your interested, they do help to bring about calm and tranquility as well as a tool for self observation. If you haven't read them already I'd recommend several books; Cthulhu Cult and Liber A:O by High Priest Satanis. The Fourth Way and In search of the miraculous by P.D Ouspensky. The power of now by Eckhart Tolle. As far as personal development goes and changing negative patterns,from my perspective these books have been enlightening and life changing. Hope this helps! Thanks, I actually ran into a situation today where I was able to practice and nearly completely drive the negative emotion from my mind. Now, I know it isn't always that easy and quick to master, but I have had experience with dealing with this particular overwhelming emotion in the past on numerous occasions. I speak of panic, unexpected and irrational panic and dread. It'll hit me sometimes out of the blue especially if I am fatigued (usually from lack of sleep). I was able to overcome it rather quickly and resist from expressing the emotion outwardly to the best of my ability. I'll continue to self-remember and read more of Ouspensky, I even plan on taking some notes of my own from the book "The Fourth Way". I'm definitely going to try some of your techniques and methods. Thanks! Ia! Ia! Cthulhu ftaghn!
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Post by lucofthelight on Apr 29, 2010 6:33:59 GMT -6
Over the last few days or so of intense immersion in the work several self truths have presented themselves, resulting in an evening of horrid epiphanies.
Epiphany 1; My life is akin to a sick joke. I have no life aim or direction. Sure, I can pretend that I have a life direction but I really don't. It is up to the universe at this point. I am asleep.
Epiphany 2; In my so called waking hours I spend a large portion of it in what they refer to in the work as 'Imagination'. Useless imagination. Things that didn't really happen, stories that are created by my mind that are added to what happened. Or as a way to justify myself to be the righteous one. Daydreaming. If I think of an event I might replay it and imagine it in a way that is more appealing to my ego, or an I that is in control quite possibly.
Epiphany 3; I lie to myself that everything is fine when it is not really. My machine suffers, it's moving body uses up energy on useless movements and energy wasting tension. My emotional center is going through a period of blankness. I have done quiet well to stop the expression of negative emotions but there is a void that is quiet unnerving at this point. Neither happy nor sad, calm nor angry. Strange. My intellectual center is also drawing blanks at the moment. It is sleeping, no original thoughts, just the same old patterns playing out in reaction to the circumstances I am under. I'm bored of the things that I'm usually interested in. Things seem dull. After all I'm asleep most of the time. Things are automatic. I'm disgusted in myself that I can lie to myself and deceive myself. I thought I was a reasonably decent person. However, sometimes I see myself in self observation and see the way I react as cruel and unforgiving. A cold robot response to an insane world.
This is the human condition. This is sleep. I want to Awaken. I want to lessen the suffering.
Hail Dread Cthulhu!
Awake!
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Post by beastx on Apr 29, 2010 7:46:29 GMT -6
Over the last few days or so of intense immersion in the work several self truths have presented themselves, resulting in an evening of horrid epiphanies. Epiphany 1; My life is akin to a sick joke. I have no life aim or direction. Sure, I can pretend that I have a life direction but I really don't. It is up to the universe at this point. I am asleep. Epiphany 2; In my so called waking hours I spend a large portion of it in what they refer to in the work as 'Imagination'. Useless imagination. Things that didn't really happen, stories that are created by my mind that are added to what happened. Or as a way to justify myself to be the righteous one. Daydreaming. If I think of an event I might replay it and imagine it in a way that is more appealing to my ego, or an I that is in control quite possibly. Epiphany 3; I lie to myself that everything is fine when it is not really. My machine suffers, it's moving body uses up energy on useless movements and energy wasting tension. My emotional center is going through a period of blankness. I have done quiet well to stop the expression of negative emotions but there is a void that is quiet unnerving at this point. Neither happy nor sad, calm nor angry. Strange. My intellectual center is also drawing blanks at the moment. It is sleeping, no original thoughts, just the same old patterns playing out in reaction to the circumstances I am under. I'm bored of the things that I'm usually interested in. Things seem dull. After all I'm asleep most of the time. Things are automatic. I'm disgusted in myself that I can lie to myself and deceive myself. I thought I was a reasonably decent person. However, sometimes I see myself in self observation and see the way I react as cruel and unforgiving. A cold robot response to an insane world. This is the human condition. This is sleep. I want to Awaken. I want to lessen the suffering. Hail Dread Cthulhu! Awake! Good Sir,
These are the words of someone truly struggling to Awaken. In fact, I myself made these same discoveries and continue to catch myself still falling into them. I am however now able to see a path to correction. The same path you've taken to this set of discoveries in time will begin to open the doors to Will. I can honestly say for the first time in my life, I am not just wandering aimlessly with an unexplained sense of purpose. Stay strong in The Work. If you need us we are here.
When the Stars are Right!
Beast Xeno First Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 29, 2010 10:28:22 GMT -6
There is an important next step once we have realized the terror of the situation... rejoice.
Knowing our place in the universe, as horrible as it is, reveals something extraordinary: a way out. Seeing the prison and the gate leading to freedom means that we are that much closer to escape. So, I recommend banishing any thoughts of hopelessness and feelings of self-pity. Our destiny awaits, and the journey is easier to manage with fellow prison-breakers. Focus on your liberation and rejoice!
Rejoice for the Emerald Kingdom is at hand,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by lucofthelight on Apr 29, 2010 15:48:47 GMT -6
[/quote]
Good Sir,
These are the words of someone truly struggling to Awaken. In fact, I myself made these same discoveries and continue to catch myself still falling into them. I am however now able to see a path to correction. The same path you've taken to this set of discoveries in time will begin to open the doors to Will. I can honestly say for the first time in my life, I am not just wandering aimlessly with an unexplained sense of purpose. Stay strong in The Work. If you need us we are here.
When the Stars are Right!
Beast Xeno First Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu [/quote]Thankyou First Priest Beast Xeno. Please know that you recent poem was also instrumental in helping me come to these self discoveries. I must say I have gone through periods of clarity and then subsequent experiences of confusion. I can say thus far that my practice of the work has certainly produced effects and change. It is almost like self observation changes what you are observing even if you are not trying to change it. Shining a light on things that you usually leave dormant or unchecked seems to change the thing in some way leading to a period of uncertainty in regards to how my machine reacts to certain stimuli or circumstances.
By his loathsome tentacles!
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