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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Oct 22, 2008 19:25:52 GMT -6
This thread was started to help people communicate about the most common problems they are having with awakening. problems at any level, or of any nature. The most common ones i hear of are: people complaining about not having enough time, difficulty finding actual activities or turning the theoretical techniques into practice, moving from short periods of awakening to longer more productive time periods.
I personally have had the most trouble with the emotional aspect of awakening. Mind and Body came under control quite well, but the the instability of emotions are what slowed me down. I for a period had them under control but they can fly off track quite unexpectedly. Emotions unfortunately can be very influential with the way we behave and the way we think. Which can throw other parts of awakening out the window. I found the best way was to get rid of emotions, by become disconnected with all events and stepping right back to view everything from distant perspective. Do not become emotionally involved with anything, don't care about anything in this world, at all. Then just act within it.
Shaz'rahjeem
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 22, 2008 21:19:14 GMT -6
yes, that makes perfect sense. i think the emotional center is the most volatile and disobedient of the three. however, you said yourself how influential our emotions can be. disconnection is a great start, but eventually you'll want to create certain emotions and allow them to fuel you.
if a void was always devoid of anything but nothingness, there would just be... a void. taking the void and creating essential things to hang among the soft black stars... that is mastery of oneself. emotions are power, but like any power they can be self-destructive.
VS
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Madguten
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Woe, to he who hears the howling
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Post by Madguten on Oct 23, 2008 17:42:11 GMT -6
Great topic and lots of great points here already.
I dont know if there is (or ever will be, or even should be) a perfect set "method" for maneuvering about existence. I speculate if the best we can do is to do the best we can do. We must simply navigate as best we can.
I think that realizing and discussing methods (like you've done here) is one among many great tools to become more aware about how oneself functions.
The method you explain could be called a "set of rationality rules", if im not mistaken. This can be a great tool (in my view), but of course as any other tool, it can also become a weapon. It can be as destructive as constructive according to the one who is using it.
You strike me as being able to use such a method as a way of keeping leveled in a storm, for others, they have too much of this "distance from emotions" and they are simply unable to experience feelings to a degree were it disables them to have "normal" relations to (and impressions of) their surroundings.
But if we are experiencing emotional high peaks and low valleys (like you explained) then it can be an excellent idea to take a step back and (as you said) view it from a distance.
But its hard. I still get mad rage sometimes, not as much as i did when i was younger, i AM getting better at avoiding the high tempers and i deal with them better when they occur. I guess its an ongoing battle, like the battle of the elements ;D
Yeah, my main obstacle (but not problem, that makes it sound too negative) is the time. I am super busy ALL THE TIME. I think i am just a lousy time manager, THAT is one of my soft spots, one of the places i could CERTAINLY trim up a bit. I must retake my time.
This is also sorta what i am trying to say with the tool/weapon thing, but i DO believe that you already said it better here ;D
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Oct 23, 2008 19:02:57 GMT -6
Anger, rage and frustration are biggest problems.
The method i just gave is very subjective. It should and would change as different people use it. It will likely even change as i grow to understand it and myself better.
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Post by B'Lahk'Neeth on Oct 25, 2008 0:23:25 GMT -6
ok, HP... wrap your mind-tentacles around THIS one:
by now i hope you're all aware music is the main focus of my life right now, outside of constantly trying to gain more esoteric/occult/magicka knowledge and now of course adding the goal of Awakening. im in a signed band, we're putting out our album by january you can find it in hot topic (which i work at, awesome company buy it from us if you got one in your town!!!), best buy, fye, and more. point being, this isnt just a hobby for me.
now music is one of those things that sucks you in, evokes all kinds of feelings, takes you to other planes mentally and spiritually and emotionally while listening to it... and this is my... "problem"?
when i play i try to stay detached, to stay in my body, be aware of all my hand/finger movements (losing control and playing too hard makes one cramp up HELLA bad HELLA quick onstage and is muey no bueno), my arm movements, everything. so im constantly fighting to be Awake during my playing and performances... which is good, right?
or no? is this not the point of music and performance? to allow oneself to "lose control" or whatever it is that keeps us tied down to THIS moment, to be transported to other realms of the mind, live momentarily in other worlds?
reading The Fourth Way (about halfway done), ive come to see that this is Identifying and bad, right? but is this not the goal of art?
which brings to my question: how do you see Awakening/ how is it involved, in the context of art and the creative process?
this is a big thing, because i see we are a lot of artists here, and if not directly involved as creative individuals, we all are dedicated fans and are either film enthusiasts, RPGers, avid readers of sci-fi, fantasy, and horror (if any genres take you out of this world and this time, its these three), lovers of strange and abstract art, etc. like more so than the Sleeping public, who can flip on a tv and be transfixed by the tv guide channel.
this question has been on my mind for a long time now, i just hadnt framed it and asked it until this thread (thank you, Shaz, for the opportunity!).
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Madguten
Moderator
CoC forum moderator
Woe, to he who hears the howling
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Post by Madguten on Oct 25, 2008 4:22:43 GMT -6
No, this doesnt have to be a problem at all. Getting into music and also getting an outlet at the same time is a great thing, but for some people, frustration and anger just rules them more than they want it to, on a daily basis.
I think its cool as hell that you play in an active band, it can give some life experience, seeing lots of people and places and all.
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Post by fahy92 on Oct 25, 2008 12:57:18 GMT -6
Music is one of the only things in my life that makes me happy. As a metal bass player, B'Lahk'Neeth, you have your music memorized. When I played in drumline, unless we were playing a performance for a competition for concert music, I just, let my muscles do the work. I find it more enjoyable when I just let go, let my body feel the music, and just...relax, feel the high of the enjoyment of doing what I love.
Ah, I remember when I had a flute solo, the first time I did a performance, I was nervous. All I did was concentrate on what music I was reading, and focusing on what fingers where moving, my embochure, and my breathing. I totally fucked up on the solo. It was terrible. We had a performance the next night for our parents, and I just sat there [the solo was at the beginning of the song, so my conductor would start when I would start playing]. I turned my music around, so that I wouldn't stare at it, didn't think about, and played the solo. It was the best I ever played it.
By now, I would think that muscle memory would take over for you, B'Lahk'Neeth. Just let go, feel the sensations of doing what you love.
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 25, 2008 14:23:13 GMT -6
yes, Fahy is right.
a couple months ago, i got into this discussion on youtube with a musician who was very skeptical of the 4th way. he couldn't understand how an artist could be observing himself while at the same time free to create great art. but that's what it is, observation is freeing yourself up to understand how the music, painting, sculpture, or story should go. being too self-conscious and mechanical with music, art, or performance can be even worse than tuning out and letting your muscles simply recall what was learned.
being aware and letting go is a balancing act. mindful yet relaxed, one needs to be "in the zone". struggling to Awake is like opening the door and letting the inspiration come to you. remaining in control without strangling the moment. it can't be forced.
thinking of what it means to be Awake in this way might help you with everyday Self-Remembering...
VS
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Post by B'Lahk'Neeth on Oct 26, 2008 2:12:06 GMT -6
wow. thats rad, HP. thats totally what i try and do. ok, ok... i think im on the right track with this. every time i ask you a question you tell me what im already doing or thinking, but phrase it way better than i could and in greater detail. so im not NOT getting it. which is good. just need to implement it more.
got that exercise book today. had a show so couldnt read hardly any of it. will post about it soon, though.
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Post by astennoth on Nov 2, 2008 4:48:19 GMT -6
My main problem is not being able to clear my mind of all thoughts...in essence, I'm having trouble creating a void in my mind...
Any tips on how to do this?
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 2, 2008 14:17:02 GMT -6
i just saw your post in a similar thread asking for the 4th way in layman's terms. i'll try to give a simple explanation over there.
for the above question, focus your attention on Self-Remembering. by that i mean, try to see yourself as if you were an outside observer. look at your body, but also look at all the 'I's within. say to yourself, "i am here, now" and pay attention to keeping who you are at the forefront of your mind.
that alone, takes huge effort and is difficult to hold onto for any length of time. the trick is actually keeping other thoughts in your head while practicing Self-Remembering because that usually shuts everything else out.
VS
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Nov 7, 2008 0:02:23 GMT -6
Small biological, and physical manifestations of things such as: itches, yawns, fidgeting, knuckle cracking, nail biting and other small habits. These can prove some of the hardest things to pull into line. Things such as yawning are biological however and can be easily understood as to why they happen. However habits like nail biting can also take time to overcome. I have bit my nails for as long as i can remember, because my mom did and its was an imitated behavior from childhood. However it is one of the hard things to stop. I can however control it quite easily with mindfulness of my actions and body. This one of the areas i came to understand at the beginning. However in those small time when you lapse in the consciousness, you realize after wards, or during what happening.
I have also found things like rage and anger, emotional problems such as these. Can be controlled n much more forgiving ways other then complete disconnection from them. Disconnection does help deal with the emotion in the first, almost as a preventive. But the reaction, and physical manifestations in violence can still surface with the initial feeling of anger. If you have ever herd the term frenzy you know what i mean. Reactions to anger and frustration often are violent and these sought of things seem instinctive and perhaps even biological. In that case they would come under the category of yawning and blinking. However it seems that they would more likely be learned behaviors, mimics of what the rest humans do. But we all do have at least the basic instinctive fight reactions in us.
I hope what i just wrote makes sense or has relevance to anyone. Or at least can bring a direction of conversation
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Nov 7, 2008 18:46:46 GMT -6
yes, that makes perfect sense. i think the emotional center is the most volatile and disobedient of the three. however, you said yourself how influential our emotions can be. disconnection is a great start, but eventually you'll want to create certain emotions and allow them to fuel you.
if a void was always devoid of anything but nothingness, there would just be... a void. taking the void and creating essential things to hang among the soft black stars... that is mastery of oneself. emotions are power, but like any power they can be self-destructive.
VS When I FIRST awakend, I felt really bored when it came to doing things that I used to enjoy, such as gaming. That led to kind of feeling of extreme boredom, which can lead to a type of feeling ALMOST like depression if you allow it to, as nothing seems real anymore. That passes with time. Soon you start to feel energy you thought you never had, and even though stuff doesnt seem as real, it becomes amusing in some way once more. I find watching sleepers go about their mindless lives amusing to watch as well. This leads to a feeling of bliss.. you become MUCH more perceptive.. you can ALMOST see without eyes in 360 degrees at times, as the astral sight really kicks up a notch.
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Post by whatsupable on May 22, 2009 14:01:22 GMT -6
so i tryed to remember myself and seeing all my i's atleast i was awaire that i was asleap and had like 2 times i think i had it a feeling of nothing in my mind and like why shoud i do this why shoud i do that why is this what it is. (is that what you mean whit being awaik)it felt weird than i heard the phone and lost it all of it and was tierd
hope i am going in the good way the thing is i have no school now and hope that i also there can practice it.
the thing is i must go one i wouldt like dont getting it so i am trying again and again hopeing to break my personal recort what probebly is like 2minuts (-,-)
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on May 22, 2009 18:52:38 GMT -6
You are going in the right direction by the sound of it. Its hard to describe the sensation accurately for sure, but when it does come to pass there will be no doubt in your mind about. It can sometimes would seem its like trying to explain an orgasm(and the joy therein) to... a unic.
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Post by I AM the Way on May 22, 2009 19:07:38 GMT -6
even two minutes, if it's straight through, is difficult. the mind wanders and attention goes someplace else. then we are asleep again until forced Awake.
VS
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Post by whatsupable on May 23, 2009 4:22:33 GMT -6
well the bigest problem i have i about selfrememberind and looking at yourself. i am thinking about fisrst try it whit a mirror and then awitout.
the controling of all the I's goes better but it is more like all off or all are on not yet really abel to put only one in and say yes or no to it. more like first all ignore then try to make one and that one can get in and that is were it stops insteat of one entering all enter. but trying it is really fun and i am making it a game by makeing a personal recort to it.
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Post by whatsupable on May 23, 2009 8:40:16 GMT -6
yeah i had it now it makes sense only for a few seconds but i understand what you mean by not explain able it was really great vieuw of like just ... cant really explain like a great something in my mind that did like uh ... well cant explain that also but it was really great how it came? i dont know i was walking after i eat something that was not on my died (following the died to only eat when hungry and else not) maby the fast change did it but i am not sure on that but hope i can get it again today
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Post by I AM the Way on May 24, 2009 12:08:30 GMT -6
don't try controlling the many "I"s within you. at this early stage, you should only be observing them.
VS
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on May 24, 2009 18:26:47 GMT -6
most often he most powerful/ sudden awakening happen by surprise. In that something suddenly startles you into wakefulness. I use to get them in my bath room, because in the mirror i can see my reflection, not only from front on, but to the side in the shower glass, and from another angle which comes from another part of the shower.
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Post by Lord Void Bharam'ka on May 25, 2009 1:27:23 GMT -6
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Post by whatsupable on May 25, 2009 13:28:48 GMT -6
well i was thinking maby this could work for self remembering (not yet tryed)
always have a peach of paper and something to write then everytime you notise a I write it up
at the end of the day make 2 parts good one's and bad.
then try to remember the good one's and get rid of the bad one's
what do you think of it? like to hear
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on May 25, 2009 17:48:29 GMT -6
I'm sorry but the I's won't work in that way. Its not like notion which un-subtly pops into you head screams a bit then crawls away. However the eyes could be monitored over time like that, in some sense. But there is easier methods, or rather better methods. There are a few threads in this forum which will talk about if you go looking, also i advise you read vengers books.
The best exercises i could recommend is: start by sitting someone where quiet where your not likely to be interrupted. Start simply like a Buddhist meditation, by calming you mind and body(if you can't do this they are plenty of exercised telling you how, usually they involving the breathing cycles). once you relaxed, pay attention first to your body, everything. The temperature, the feeling of the clothes on you skin, the weight of yourself, anything and everything. eventually move onto you mind and start paying attention to your thoughts. if you notice that they are going of track, rather then simply jump back to thinking about awakening, follow your thoughts back to it. (eg. i need to go shopping-what will i eat-hunger-food-smell of food in the air-awakening) now try and hold this these states. and lastly you should just expand. start taking yourself from various angles, and corners of the room. start imagining if you were viewing yourself from above the house, looking through he roof. but don't just focus on yourself, let other things like cars passing on the road take up part of you thought. its hard for me to explain, but if you practice it I'm sure you'll understand(i hope). lastly when all this has sought of filled you, if you still haven't been overwhelmed into awakening, then just say "I am I, this is all nothing" these little stimuluses help. the specifics don't matter but the general direction pretty obvious.
I know that sounds long winded, and i know how annoying it is to read some exercises and think, that sounds like jobbery-joo designed to keep you from ever reaching the goal. but these will help.
lordvoid: I spose the only way to tell if someone is more awake then someone else is how they behave in the world, how they react to certain things and they make decision. All of which are measurable and there for relevant methods, however become a problem when we have to communicate through a forum. So i spose the only way to trust someone on there level of experience is by there word.
however when you are your self experienced and knowledgeable, you can tell one someone is not. It doesn't happen very regularly and they never hang around to long, but people often come on here claiming various things and wanting a pile of respect for it. Which is well and good to claim, but anyone with knowledge on the subject can easily pick up on it. eg: sometime there has been people with these fantastic and revolutionary ideas(according to them) that post something(not jut on this forum but any occult forum) long winded a pointless, or short and empty. And upon reading it i have noticed that they have read the wikipedia article on it. basically anyone can pretend anything over the internet, and the only way you can tell if someone is giving sound advice, is if you either a. have built up respect with the person or b. they are trusted by someone whom you know you can respect.
That being said sometimes, its just plain obvious when someone is full of shit. The most recent example i can think of is some guy who claimed he killed me with magic, and posted stating that that I had died. needles to stay he say he wasn't on the forum very long.
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Post by whatsupable on May 27, 2009 12:55:35 GMT -6
I'm sorry but the I's won't work in that way. Its not like notion which un-subtly pops into you head screams a bit then crawls away. However the eyes could be monitored over time like that, in some sense. But there is easier methods, or rather better methods. There are a few threads in this forum which will talk about if you go looking, also i advise you read vengers books. The best exercises i could recommend is: start by sitting someone where quiet where your not likely to be interrupted. Start simply like a Buddhist meditation, by calming you mind and body(if you can't do this they are plenty of exercised telling you how, usually they involving the breathing cycles). once you relaxed, pay attention first to your body, everything. The temperature, the feeling of the clothes on you skin, the weight of yourself, anything and everything. eventually move onto you mind and start paying attention to your thoughts. if you notice that they are going of track, rather then simply jump back to thinking about awakening, follow your thoughts back to it. (eg. i need to go shopping-what will i eat-hunger-food-smell of food in the air-awakening) now try and hold this these states. and lastly you should just expand. start taking yourself from various angles, and corners of the room. start imagining if you were viewing yourself from above the house, looking through he roof. but don't just focus on yourself, let other things like cars passing on the road take up part of you thought. its hard for me to explain, but if you practice it I'm sure you'll understand(i hope). lastly when all this has sought of filled you, if you still haven't been overwhelmed into awakening, then just say "I am I, this is all nothing" these little stimuluses help. the specifics don't matter but the general direction pretty obvious. I know that sounds long winded, and i know how annoying it is to read some exercises and think, that sounds like jobbery-joo designed to keep you from ever reaching the goal. but these will help. lordvoid: I spose the only way to tell if someone is more awake then someone else is how they behave in the world, how they react to certain things and they make decision. All of which are measurable and there for relevant methods, however become a problem when we have to communicate through a forum. So i spose the only way to trust someone on there level of experience is by there word. however when you are your self experienced and knowledgeable, you can tell one someone is not. It doesn't happen very regularly and they never hang around to long, but people often come on here claiming various things and wanting a pile of respect for it. Which is well and good to claim, but anyone with knowledge on the subject can easily pick up on it. eg: sometime there has been people with these fantastic and revolutionary ideas(according to them) that post something(not jut on this forum but any occult forum) long winded a pointless, or short and empty. And upon reading it i have noticed that they have read the wikipedia article on it. basically anyone can pretend anything over the internet, and the only way you can tell if someone is giving sound advice, is if you either a. have built up respect with the person or b. they are trusted by someone whom you know you can respect. That being said sometimes, its just plain obvious when someone is full of shit. The most recent example i can think of is some guy who claimed he killed me with magic, and posted stating that that I had died. needles to stay he say he wasn't on the forum very long. thanks a lot going to try it the more i learn the more i have the feeling that i just thought i were awake instead of being it
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Post by Lord Void Bharam'ka on May 29, 2009 23:23:25 GMT -6
lordvoid: I spose the only way to tell if someone is more awake then someone else is how they behave in the world, how they react to certain things and they make decision. All of which are measurable and there for relevant methods, however become a problem when we have to communicate through a forum. So i spose the only way to trust someone on there level of experience is by there word. however when you are your self experienced and knowledgeable, you can tell one someone is not. It doesn't happen very regularly and they never hang around to long, but people often come on here claiming various things and wanting a pile of respect for it. Which is well and good to claim, but anyone with knowledge on the subject can easily pick up on it. eg: sometime there has been people with these fantastic and revolutionary ideas(according to them) that post something(not jut on this forum but any occult forum) long winded a pointless, or short and empty. And upon reading it i have noticed that they have read the wikipedia article on it. basically anyone can pretend anything over the internet, and the only way you can tell if someone is giving sound advice, is if you either a. have built up respect with the person or b. they are trusted by someone whom you know you can respect. That being said sometimes, its just plain obvious when someone is full of shit. The most recent example i can think of is some guy who claimed he killed me with magic, and posted stating that that I had died. needles to stay he say he wasn't on the forum very long. Shaz: I do agree that a persons actions reflect their level of awakening... It seems that the more awakened are more relaxed and not so quick to stress and anger... I do agree w/ you that a good way to judge is their actions and their word (provided their word is good and only time will tell) The wikipedia researcher know-it-all's that you mention are grouped into some of the people I was referring to. I've ran into those fuckers too in occult forums People like this make me choose my words wisely. That's why I say I've had certain degrees of Awakening and not a full blown enlightened master, even though I kinda consider myself a Bodhisattva of Chaos.
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Post by whatsupable on Jun 7, 2009 8:13:09 GMT -6
i have the feeling of a chance and my mind and everytime i try to get awake i sometimes get it
but i have since i am trying this i have the idea i am getting creazy my mind is getting feeling strange and sometimes i am getting dizzie after trying to awake or fall almost in a real sleep.
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