Post by pocketguy on Mar 11, 2012 11:09:04 GMT -6
I'm primarily here to pariticpate in the discussion about "Gnosis" by
Mouravieff. I found these forums soon after Venger As'Nas Satanis mentioned
the study group to me in an email early this year.
I originally came to the website because I enjoyed reading horror fiction,
including Lovecraft, and it was interesting to see that someone was trying to
make something real of it.
Since then I've looked at the material here some more, and I think I see two
interpretations of "Cthulhu". If I understand right, there's an Inner Cthulhu
and an Outer Cthulhu. I'm confused because I place different values on them.
I'm also confused because I generally don't know which one people here are
talking about.
The Inner Cthulhu seems to be the higher consciousness that one tries to create
or connect with by doing the Fourth Way work. If it exists, it lies sleeping,
and it will probably destroy or subjugate many or all of the fragmentary
subpersonalities running around in one's head by default, so labelling it
Cthulhu makes sense. Nevertheless we try to wake it up because the alternative
of having a constantly shifting personality is profoundly embarassing. I'm not
sure anyone ever got there from here, but getting there even partway seems
worthwhile so there seems to be little downside to making the attempt. It's
not obvious that it's possible to make that change with the existing equipment
-- perhaps you can't run a stable personality on a brain made of meat. Even in
that scenario, this is worth paying some attention to because we may get to
choose whether to have brains of meat or something more stable in the
not-to-distant future; see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading. The
technology that might make this possible would also enable the Outer Cthulhu,
so let's talk about that.
The Outer Cthulhu is something that might exist outside of ourselves, and if
specific events happen to wake it up, it will reorganize or destroy human
society abruptly. I actually expect a scenario that matches this quite well to
happen in the next 30-50 years. Specifically, I expect one or more
corporations or governments to make an unFriendly AI and then reorganize the
world in a way that no individual human would desire. See
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_ai for the specific definition of
"Friendly" I'm using here. In this scenario, Cthulhu is built instead of
summoned, and right now it is a latent possibility instead of something that
exists and is sleeping, but those differences are inessential, IMO.
One might say this change is already in progress. Consider what it's like to
compute your income taxes. No one human can understand the law. Now imagine a
situation where automation is used to flawlessly enforce the incomprehensible
laws. Corporations will lobby for laws that favor themselves while individuals
get prosecuted for laws they can't understand, and eventually the corporations
will rule. If you want to argue that corporations already rule, I agree with
you, but that's not essential to my point.
As you can see, I think giving control to the Inner Cthulhu is a good thing,
and giving control to the Outer Cthulhu is a bad thing, so I get confused when
people talk about Cthulhu without distinguishing them.
Do people reading this think this website is about one or the other? If so,
which? Is there any viewpoint from which the Outer Cthulhu I'm seeing is a
good thing for individual humans?
Oh, and another thing: I believe that pride is a sin, in the Gurjieffian sense. In other words, pride can easily prevent us from doing the occasionally demeaning things required to get the results we want. Judging by the puffed-up titles, Master Satanis and just about everyone else here seems to hold the opposite view. Does pride have some use that I'm missing? Am I misinterpreting the titles?
Mouravieff. I found these forums soon after Venger As'Nas Satanis mentioned
the study group to me in an email early this year.
I originally came to the website because I enjoyed reading horror fiction,
including Lovecraft, and it was interesting to see that someone was trying to
make something real of it.
Since then I've looked at the material here some more, and I think I see two
interpretations of "Cthulhu". If I understand right, there's an Inner Cthulhu
and an Outer Cthulhu. I'm confused because I place different values on them.
I'm also confused because I generally don't know which one people here are
talking about.
The Inner Cthulhu seems to be the higher consciousness that one tries to create
or connect with by doing the Fourth Way work. If it exists, it lies sleeping,
and it will probably destroy or subjugate many or all of the fragmentary
subpersonalities running around in one's head by default, so labelling it
Cthulhu makes sense. Nevertheless we try to wake it up because the alternative
of having a constantly shifting personality is profoundly embarassing. I'm not
sure anyone ever got there from here, but getting there even partway seems
worthwhile so there seems to be little downside to making the attempt. It's
not obvious that it's possible to make that change with the existing equipment
-- perhaps you can't run a stable personality on a brain made of meat. Even in
that scenario, this is worth paying some attention to because we may get to
choose whether to have brains of meat or something more stable in the
not-to-distant future; see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading. The
technology that might make this possible would also enable the Outer Cthulhu,
so let's talk about that.
The Outer Cthulhu is something that might exist outside of ourselves, and if
specific events happen to wake it up, it will reorganize or destroy human
society abruptly. I actually expect a scenario that matches this quite well to
happen in the next 30-50 years. Specifically, I expect one or more
corporations or governments to make an unFriendly AI and then reorganize the
world in a way that no individual human would desire. See
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_ai for the specific definition of
"Friendly" I'm using here. In this scenario, Cthulhu is built instead of
summoned, and right now it is a latent possibility instead of something that
exists and is sleeping, but those differences are inessential, IMO.
One might say this change is already in progress. Consider what it's like to
compute your income taxes. No one human can understand the law. Now imagine a
situation where automation is used to flawlessly enforce the incomprehensible
laws. Corporations will lobby for laws that favor themselves while individuals
get prosecuted for laws they can't understand, and eventually the corporations
will rule. If you want to argue that corporations already rule, I agree with
you, but that's not essential to my point.
As you can see, I think giving control to the Inner Cthulhu is a good thing,
and giving control to the Outer Cthulhu is a bad thing, so I get confused when
people talk about Cthulhu without distinguishing them.
Do people reading this think this website is about one or the other? If so,
which? Is there any viewpoint from which the Outer Cthulhu I'm seeing is a
good thing for individual humans?
Oh, and another thing: I believe that pride is a sin, in the Gurjieffian sense. In other words, pride can easily prevent us from doing the occasionally demeaning things required to get the results we want. Judging by the puffed-up titles, Master Satanis and just about everyone else here seems to hold the opposite view. Does pride have some use that I'm missing? Am I misinterpreting the titles?