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Essence
Dec 30, 2011 12:08:03 GMT -6
Post by I AM the Way on Dec 30, 2011 12:08:03 GMT -6
"We are told that the Personality, formed and acted upon by life, is destructible and disintegrates. The Essence, however, returns to its Star, being the deathless power of growth in us, which we neglect."
Psychological Commentaries on the Teaching of Gurdjieff and Ouspensky volume 5 by Maurice Nicoll
What does this mean to you? Describe some of the things which come into your mind as you re-read this quotation.
Awake!
VS
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Essence
Dec 30, 2011 19:58:09 GMT -6
Post by sin on Dec 30, 2011 19:58:09 GMT -6
It reminds me of Crowley's musings. More specifically the ideas he places emphasis on in Liber AL vel Legis, when he writes: "invoke me under the Stars!" And in another verse, "Every man and woman is a Star!" I believe it directly addresses the essence Nicoll's is referring to.
We can construct personality, deconstruct it and build it again, but this is not who or what we are. It's that essence that fights to live, even when dying seems like the easier and logical choice. Personality may dictate how a person should behave, how they should be but when the chips are down, that True Will can be triumphant.
Can. Is the key word there. It doesn't mean that a person will be. This is why self awareness is so important, but we slumber too easily and go right back to being creatures of habit. In Dianetics, its referred to as working from the reactive mind. The potential is there, but because we react, vs. being proactive in our development, that limitless potential is often neglected.
CSwww.paganspace.net/profiles/blogs/make-me-under-the-stars
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Essence
Jan 1, 2012 22:24:44 GMT -6
Post by boksmutant on Jan 1, 2012 22:24:44 GMT -6
We've said it before that the Essence/soul is modified by life & experience just like personality is, but by what percentage is my question. Are they both equally effected or is the personality more easily swayed?
Awake!
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Essence
Jan 2, 2012 10:53:06 GMT -6
Post by sin on Jan 2, 2012 10:53:06 GMT -6
boksmutanis: Do you perceive 'soul' and 'identity' as being two distinct things? When one builds their soul, what is it that they are building?
CS
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Essence
Jan 2, 2012 23:07:29 GMT -6
Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Jan 2, 2012 23:07:29 GMT -6
It reminds me of the misconception most people have about rebirth. being that they expect to have their entire consciousness reborn into the next form. However the real idea is that only the very-subtle-consciousness is reborn. This could be called the essence. The Consciousness is what we are aware of and comprises all the thoughts on a day to day basis. It is completely subjective and has no inherent existence. As has all ready been established. the subtle-consciousness is the same but exists deeper under the individuals sense of self. This as a far as most people will get when looking inwards. This is shaped mostly by environmental, biological, neurological factors like the local societal moral standard. The very-subtle-consciousness could be compared to the idea of the soul or essence. however it differs slightly in that indicates the potential for complete(or more elaborate) consciousness in all for forms of life. That is of course going off the assumption that all forms of life posses this very-subtle-consciousness.
Ia Ia cthulhu Fhatgn!!
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Post by boksmutant on Jan 3, 2012 3:56:04 GMT -6
That's hard for me to answer since I found the "Fourth Way" answer to be to my liking, but don't know where on the forum I had that discussion:) But if I go with what I've gathered so far, & from my own observations, I'd say the true self/soul/essence is held prisoner by the chemical reaction/reality/identity.
We spend our time honing the latter(as demanded by our environment), while the earlier must sorta sit on the side lines undeveloped &(at worst) learning something we can't imagine! It's perhaps learning & understanding something about the universe we could never comprehend. Especially the more we add of the CHem R/real/ident.
Well I spoke to soon & pretty much just answered my own question lol. The true self is just that, TRUE! It could probably be summed up with one word, "inquisitive". Nothing to complex I suppose, maybe "innocent" too.
It's just that my nihilist side had this vision of a realm inadvertently being created by all the damage we do to our souls/essence & wondered if a bad place could be created from all that neglect, all that suffocation:) But I'll go with the idea that it's just held prisoner. This is exactly what I believed long before I found the Fourth Way & I digg it! Awake!
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Post by wren on Jan 3, 2012 9:19:21 GMT -6
It brings to mind another thing Nicoll has said refering to the Ray of Creation, about how our Star created man to be more than just universal livestock.
It also reminds me of the cycle of reincarnation(or eternal slavery for some), as some call it, but as Shaz'rahjeem pointed out someone isn't going to come around again all-knowing of their past life. I also wonder if, after returning to the Star over and over again, the Essence might stagnate and loose its chance to Awaken.
That's also one thing I found irksome about "the next life", because if there is another one, why would people bother working on themselves in this one? People in general are so scared of loosing their identity that they take pride in thinking that they'll be forgiven "next time".
Awake!
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Post by sin on Jan 3, 2012 9:38:11 GMT -6
Indeed, its a highly complex socio-political issue. There are so many influencing agents at work that it may take an entire lifetime to peel them away a layer at a time. By the time you get to the core, it may not be realized until you are lying on your death bed, and have that Aha! moment.
I would prefer not to spend my whole life honing the iron mask, but instead be proactive in recognizing the locks, and finding the keys.
Gurjieff writes, that the keys are not near their locks. I find that fellowship is often the best route to finding them; as it serves as a mechanism for not only contrast and comparison, but also as a way to cause shocks. It's not uncommon to trip over the keys, like an invisible bump in the carpet that sends you flying on your ass. I see things about myself, through the eyes of others. Like a two way mirror.
cthulhu-cult.com/?p=71
Reflections, by Cora'Sahn cthulhu-cult.com/?p=123
Sitting by the shore, gazing into the still water. I reach my right-hand within, reaching into myself.
My reflection.
With my left-hand I hold a scepter. My dominion. The wind blows through my hair, the moon above and reflected below.
My reflection.
Voices carry, I hear the whispers and the dread in the air. What I pull out of the water, out of myself… is you.
You see yourself in me, a mirror.
Your reflection.
I am every person you have ever met. I am them, and I am you. Look at me, what do you see? Do my eyes make you fearful?
I reach for you, you hesitate and step back. Are you afraid? What are you afraid of?
I walk towards you, you step back. At the edge now, will you allow yourself to fall?
What do you see? Do you see things in me, that are you? One step forward, you take a step back.
Falling, falling, falling…
Into my reflection.
RISE!
CS
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Post by I AM the Way on Jan 3, 2012 9:50:44 GMT -6
Personality is a result of life; moving about in it and playing its game. If the reality experienced by our senses is illusion, then the self which interacts with that reality must also be illusory.
Yes, Essence can be thought of as a prisoner of personality, a part of our self which is so emaciated and weak that it could not live freely if it tried. In fact, as soon as we come upon the Work, it is clear that the cage imprisoning our Essence is unlocked. Essence can crawl out at any time. There is no impenetrable physical barrier preventing Essence from escaping.
Unfortunately, as I said, Essence is far too pathetic to live outside his cage. If he is to survive, then he must become stronger. Therefore, Essence should remain in his prison voluntarily, observed by a friend on the outside who occasionally at first, then with greater frequency, comes to bring healthy food, plenty of water, and knowledge of what is happening in the world.
The man going between personality and Essence is Magnetic Center and his daily task is called Self-Remembering. He invests his time and energy in order to create tremendous positive change down the road.
In time, Essence can grow strong - if he has the proper nutrition (the correct fuel for his centers) and receives specific impressions of what it's like for us, our personality, in the world. Essence can determine the correct action to take based upon the information he is given - so hopefully, it is extremely accurate! When Essence is ready, he will leave the cage. At that point, he shall be called Real I or Master I.
Master I waits beside personality and takes over when necessary - showing us that life is not the most important thing, it is not our optimal focus, it is not where our third force should be. Life is good for certain things, the basics. The Work, on the other hand, is good for developing oneself. It is central to becoming more Conscious. When the Work becomes our third force, our connecting or reconciling or balancing ingredient, then we are headed in the right direction. We are making progress... evolutionary progression towards Godhood.
Does Nicoll's quote become easier to understand now? Can you find new meaning in it? What is still obscured? Relate what you have just read to your own life. Comment on your views of personality, Essence, Master I, etc. And by all means, ask questions!
By His loathsome tentacles,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Ipsissimus Cult of Cthulhu
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Essence
Jan 3, 2012 19:42:20 GMT -6
Post by Ankor on Jan 3, 2012 19:42:20 GMT -6
I beg to differ with the opening quote. I believe personality is our essence. What are we but the sum of our various memories? To shed them would leave nothingness, which is what we are trying to eventually become, but nothingness is not a being. After my personality is shed, I will cease to exist as the consciousness I am today, becoming a different being. (If that makes sense.)
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Essence
Jan 3, 2012 21:57:23 GMT -6
Post by I AM the Way on Jan 3, 2012 21:57:23 GMT -6
What you're saying makes sense - meaning, of course, that I understand it. However, it's wrong.
Memories are one thing. Personality and Essence are entirely separate things. What are we without our ingrained way of doing things, without our habits, without the assumptions, prejudices, and automated responses? If there is nothing beyond that, then there's no point in self-development. Buried beneath the shell of personality is Essence, that part of us which is not machine. Personality is mechanical. Who we are is 90% illusory. If you'd like to change that, keep reading.
Machines cannot transcend their mechanical nature; they cannot enjoy objective consciousness and Awaken. Machines are stuck being how they were originally built and programmed - unless an outside force acts upon the machine. Human beings were created to be self-developing. That is why we struggle against personality - so that Essence can have a more active role in our lives. Essence is who we really are behind the many masks of personality.
If this is your first encounter with the Work, then I sympathize. I was also disoriented and confused upon encountering Ouspensky for the first time. Those who want a better understand of this system should read "The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution[", In Search of the Miraculous, and The Fourth Way... all by P.D. Ouspensky.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Ipsissimus Cult of Cthulhu
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Essence
Jan 3, 2012 22:16:36 GMT -6
Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Jan 3, 2012 22:16:36 GMT -6
Venger could you elaborate on the magnetic center? I have heard the term used before and considered it to be another term for what is presently being called the master 'I'. That the practice of the 4th way along with a sense of self improvement created/ was this center. That it is the mind that keeps those 'I's that want to work and progress together to create the master I. Is this accurate?
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Post by sin on Jan 4, 2012 8:32:21 GMT -6
Venger could you elaborate on the magnetic center? I have heard the term used before and considered it to be another term for what is presently being called the master 'I'. That the practice of the 4th way along with a sense of self improvement created/ was this center. That it is the mind that keeps those 'I's that want to work and progress together to create the master I. Is this accurate?
This may help:
cultofcthulhu.wall.fm/forum/topic/299
Taken from our Cult Resources page: cultofcthulhu.wikidot.com/start
CS
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Deleted
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Essence
Jan 4, 2012 10:42:48 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2012 10:42:48 GMT -6
What does mean "The Essence, however, returns to its Star, being the deathless power of growth in us, which we neglect." ?
My understanding is that personality is dying for everyone with the body.
The essence is what is left when memory & habits are gone. It has to crystallize to survive and to continue his evolution toward godhood, else it "return to the star", it evaporate in the void, and the poor guy who died is totally finished.
Ia Ia Cthulhu fhtagn !
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Essence
Jan 4, 2012 12:31:46 GMT -6
Post by I AM the Way on Jan 4, 2012 12:31:46 GMT -6
Venger could you elaborate on the magnetic center?
I have heard the term used before and considered it to be another term for what is presently being called the master 'I'. That the practice of the 4th way along with a sense of self improvement created/ was this center. That it is the mind that keeps those 'I's that want to work and progress together to create the master I. Is this accurate?
The first thing a student of the Work should do is observe himself. Such preparation is necessary to understand how the human machine functions.
Having done this, he should be able to see all the different 'I's operating within him. After weeks or months of consistent observation, the student must find those 'I's which desire to make progress, the parts of himself that wish to work. Those 'I's need to organize. This is the beginning of Magnetic Center.
Master 'I' will not arrive until certain conditions have been met. When the Work 'I's easily overcome both the 'I's that don't care about the Work and those which actively struggle against them... then Magnetic Center evolves into something more real. It usually takes at least a year after Magnetic Center is established before Master 'I' appears.
The link that CS posted is good. There should also be a couple of good threads here on the forum. Also, feel free to go back and read some of my older essays in the "beliefs" section of the CoC site.
Awake!
VS
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Essence
Jan 4, 2012 12:44:20 GMT -6
Post by wren on Jan 4, 2012 12:44:20 GMT -6
Master Venger, what exactly would you consider Essence? Would you consider Artistic Creation as part of Essence or Personality? I don't think I understand what Essence is well enough, besides being something in us that can survive death and grow.
Awake!
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Essence
Jan 4, 2012 13:52:08 GMT -6
Post by I AM the Way on Jan 4, 2012 13:52:08 GMT -6
Master Venger, what exactly would you consider Essence? Would you consider Artistic Creation as part of Essence or Personality? I don't think I understand what Essence is well enough, besides being something in us that can survive death and grow. Awake! Good question. And not easy to answer because Essence is as mysterious as the soul. Like obscenity, it's almost impossible to define it in absolute terms, due to the subjective nature of things, but we usually know it when we see it.
Specific to your query, artistic creation is to Essence as advertising "art" is to personality. Personality comes to us automatically. There is no will involved, no choice, nothing deliberate or conscious takes place. True Will is a byproduct of Essence. Perhaps it is our innate sense that a third side exists and must be pursued... even if it means the destruction of our former self.What is the difference between these works of art? How is Personality like the first and Essence like the second? Can you think of an example from your own life... some thought, feeling, or action which stems from either personality or Essence? Describe it.
Awake!
VS
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Essence
Jan 4, 2012 15:22:43 GMT -6
Post by sin on Jan 4, 2012 15:22:43 GMT -6
It's a great question.
www.paganspace.net/forum/topics/art-war
This thread may be of interest to you, as it gets to the heart of the matter in terms of expressionism, and whether it really captures and expresses true essence.
cultofcthulhu.wall.fm/blogs/post/395,
This discussion is on our Social Network.
I also started an Essence thread here www.paganspace.net/forum/topics/essence
This thread, is to discuss my axioms: The Book of SIN www.paganspace.net/forum/topics/the-book-of-sin
* see #8
"......to know me, is to know my expressions."
What I'm referring to here, is not personality. It's the essence of what I am, and to truly understand that you must learn my expressions. I could certainly explain myself using language but even then, it's not quite accurate, as language while a form of expression can lead a person in any direction I choose; by the meticulous use of words. How that language is understood, is solely reliant on the receiver's understanding of that language expressed . This includes but is not limited to personal interpretation, as well as attachment (imaginings/projections). And so, I must use various forms of expression. I find that even though I'm using various mediums, even I don't truly understand the whole of my essence. I often discover hints here and there but it may be muddied by personality. In spite of any attempt to be that essence, I'm a construction of personality.
This is why it's referred to as The Work.
CS
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Essence
Jan 4, 2012 16:54:19 GMT -6
Post by sin on Jan 4, 2012 16:54:19 GMT -6
My boyfriend made this, and he posted it on my Facebook page, I thought it was a perfect example of part personality, part essence
Ha!
CS
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Essence
Jan 4, 2012 18:08:03 GMT -6
Post by Ankor on Jan 4, 2012 18:08:03 GMT -6
I understand better now. Personality is more like the facade of masks that we put up atop our true selves, and it has many faces. It's not what we really are. Is that correct?
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Essence
Jan 4, 2012 19:51:19 GMT -6
Post by sin on Jan 4, 2012 19:51:19 GMT -6
Personality is the sum total of influences whether environmental or people-systems, we must then figure out where our essence lies under all those layers. When we discover that, awakening begins.
I don't think the aim is to 'erase' personality, but instead be aware that we have personality, and use it to our advantage. The essence uncaged, so to speak.
The fact that you experience at all is the essence, how it's experienced is personality.
I believe this is why VS prefers Ouspensky's interpretation (among others ) to strictly Gurdjieff. Especially in the area of identification. For example, when you identify with your personality, your essence disappears. You should instead use your personality like a tool, I've learned this fairly early on before discovering The Fourth Way, you can be the shape-shifter in any situation. There is nothing more powerful than a person who can adapt to the people and environment, as a means to an end. The essence then, is shining through vs. the personality which is like wearing a mask.
'American Culture' is dependent upon cults of personality. We must exceed this basic imposed mentality, exceed our 'nature' to be groomed by the society in which we live, the influences we are bombarded with every minute of the day. We are more than this, our essence is caged but the cage is of our own design. In order to be fully autonomous over our own minds (where all things exist), we must be aware of the influence, how it affects our essence, and strive towards deification.
Awake! CS
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Essence
Jan 4, 2012 22:28:46 GMT -6
Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Jan 4, 2012 22:28:46 GMT -6
What is the difference between these works of art? How is Personality like the first and Essence like the second? Can you think of an example from your own life... some thought, feeling, or action which stems from either personality or Essence? Describe it.
I would say the differences are evident most in the influence of them on the viewer. With the first it's easy to just roboticly scroll on, because we are continually exposed to this sought of media and therefore it doesn't hold the audiences attention. Not unlike a mundane person, there personality is nothing special and easily forgotten.
There is no expression in it, other then an expression of desire to sell product i suppose. But all in all its completely flat with nothing to be gained by it(other then some sweet bargains ) It has nothing to offer save what is obvious.
The Van Gogh on the other had was done for purpose of expression. You could say it was inspired by the essence. Its meaning is not immediately obvious, in fact it could just as easily be meaningless. Anything inferred by it is subjective. The add is obvious and it is like personality in that it's created by a group of people(the many 'I's) and is just a reflection of their desires and ideas. It's also is exactly what you'd expect. It doesn't break any barriers or push any boundaries. Fitting into the norm it becomes the norm.
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Post by sin on Jan 5, 2012 9:39:06 GMT -6
I carried this over from our Social Network.
Desire: What is it?
desire (v.) early 13c., from O.Fr. desirrer (12c.) "wish, desire, long for," from L. desiderare "long for, wish for; demand, expect," original sense perhaps "await what the stars will bring," from the phrase de sidere "from the stars," from sidus (gen. sideris) "heavenly body, star, constellation" (but see consider). Related: Desired; desiring. The noun is attested from c.1300, from O.Fr. desir, from desirer; sense of "lust" is first recorded mid-14c.
It is by no coincidence that writers such as Aleister Crowley use 'stars' to communicate essence of Will. A very specific type of Will.
"Invoke me under my stars! Love is the law, love under will. Nor let the fools mistake love; for there are love and love. There is the dove, and there is the serpent. Choose ye well! He, my prophet, hath chosen, knowing the law of the fortress, and the great mystery of the House of God." Liber al vel Legis 1:57
As the etymology suggests, when you 'consider' you are reflecting upon, studying before acting from a compulsion of desire. Liber AL vel Legis offers: for there are love and love, there is the dove and there is the serpent. Choose ye well...
This is precisely what I am asking Loki Dreaming. How do you determine if your desire is as a result of personality vs. essence?
I can certainly desire to leap off of a cliff for the pure joy of it, but my inevitable death may make it the act of the Dove. However if I plan the same jump, after having reflected on possible cause/effect scenarios - I can jump from the same cliff, using a parachute and enjoy my Serpent ecstasy.
In this example, we can see the distinction between personality and essence.
RISE! CS
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Essence
Jan 6, 2012 12:11:39 GMT -6
Post by wren on Jan 6, 2012 12:11:39 GMT -6
What is the difference between these works of art? How is Personality like the first and Essence like the second? Can you think of an example from your own life... some thought, feeling, or action which stems from either personality or Essence? Describe it.
Awake!
VS
I think I see what you're saying there with the art. I think the difference is that Starry Night is more full of something and with the ad, what you see is what you get. Van Gogh did his painting to do his painting, not to get something out it. It's his expression. As for an example for my own life, (I'm not entirely sure this works, but oh well) it's the way I talk. I've noticed recently that alot of the time I talk I become flustered because I'm pleased people are listening to me. It's my personality's self-importance. I think the opposite of that is talking to help people understand what I'm saying, not expecting anything from it, just doing it. Is that more like Essence? Cora'Sahn, thank you for the links. I'll have to check them out when I get on a computer that doesn't block everything. Awake!
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Essence
Jan 6, 2012 15:14:54 GMT -6
Post by I AM the Way on Jan 6, 2012 15:14:54 GMT -6
I understand better now. Personality is more like the facade of masks that we put up atop our true selves, and it has many faces. It's not what we really are. Is that correct? Yes, that is correct. But what are we... deep down? Who is the individual beneath the mask? Have you ever noticed your true self? When? How?
As Cora'Sahn mentioned, we don't want to erase personality. Rather, try to make it passive so that Essence can become more active. Adaptation and fluidity are important. I mentioned in my last video that I recently saw Enter the Dragon for the first time. The film's beginning focuses on Bruce Lee and his training. Lee talks about his technique - which is to have no technique. To be in the moment and act/react as needed.Are you also worried that at any moment your audience might stop listening? Instead of bouncing back and forth between pleasure and pain, hope and fear - which can be very distracting - find your center and look inwards. What are you expressing? Why do you want people to understand? Most of the time, our talk is just mindless chatter. To keep the Work alive in our thoughts, it's sometimes a good idea not to speak about it. Talking can drain the energy out of a thing, force leaking out of us like a sieve.
So, to answer your question - not necessarily. But you're on the right track. Exploring the why and wherefore is part of the self-observation process. Express what is deep within you more than what lies on the surface. Chances are, you're not entirely sure about your own depths. Be more sure.
I recommend daily shock treatments followed by meditation!
By His loathsome tentacles,
VS
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