|
Post by I AM the Way on Jun 27, 2010 10:49:32 GMT -6
personal view on the "Are we in prison?"-QuestionFirst of all - well done clip - besides you are constantly getting better with your vids here on YT. Now, my view to your topic: I think you are right one the one hand - yes, we (as humans) are some kind of limited - you can jump up and you will fall down - a tribute to gravity - you may choose to search for edges and limits what a human being can do - and you may have some personal benefits if you survive... As an example check out Reinhold Messner (was a popular climber) - especially his first trip to the Nanga Parbat in the Himalaya Mountains - his Adventures are very extreme - he climbed the highest Mountains without extra oxygen, he walked to the North and Southpole and through the Gobi Desert by feet and so on. Another very extreme person is RĂ¼diger Nehberg - who made adventures to the physical and psychological limit of a human being in situations where it only counts to survive. For sure - even those extreme persons experienced limits and edges for themselves - but only under the premise what is (physically) possible for a human being. On the other hand i dont think you are right - because if you say, that we are in some kind of prison, then i ask you - on whose will? From my pov the term "prison" includes "against your will" - so you may have reasons (ideological, material etc) to act against your will, sometimes. But with a so called "free will, free mind" - the only judge on you can be yourself, right? The only reason to believe that your life is full of suffering is your faith! If you think, suffering is caused by "will of gods" - you may be challenged to interchange your gods... (my opinion) However if you say, that there are other humans that are actually building are kind of "world prison" - terrorizing people with manipulating mass media, lying and betraying their nation i will totally agree. The last point from my side is a thought experiment / question: If we were unlimited, the impulse to improvement would be unnecessary - and there would be no need to reproduce our species - there would be no chance for a next "evolution step", and there could never be a newer human species different from us and afterwards the existing - do you still believe we are "suffering prisoners" here? ^^ (I am very interested in your response) thats it for this time - best regards from germany, Martin I agree with all you had to say.
Yes, if we were unlimited, then our evolution would be complete and we would have no need to replicate ourselves... and the universe would have no need to keep recycling soul energy and continuing our fleshly life on earth. As Gods we could destroy the lesser gods of the earth and/or simply leave this universe, prison or not, behind.
There are men and women who have learned to exceed our normal limits. Those are the ones who are more conscious and close to Awakening. Their world is less like a prison. I too, yearn for liberation and believe it's necessary to strive for freedom.
Ordinarily, man cannot do. He has no will. He simply reacts, drifting through life. It is rare when human beings are conscious enough to have will and to do as they wish. We are under the will and laws of some universal agency which keeps us, potential Gods, enslaved and imprisoned.
If you would like a free PDF of Cthulhu Cult, book one of our bible, just give me your email address and I'll send it to you. We could continue this discussion on the CoC forum if you wish:
cocthulhu.proboards.com/
I appreciate your responses to my video, and thanks for your kind words. I endeavor to improve myself.
VS
|
|
|
Post by Sarak G'hash on Jun 27, 2010 13:04:30 GMT -6
personal view on the "Are we in prison?"-QuestionFirst of all - well done clip - besides you are constantly getting better with your vids here on YT. Now, my view to your topic: I think you are right one the one hand - yes, we (as humans) are some kind of limited - you can jump up and you will fall down - a tribute to gravity - you may choose to search for edges and limits what a human being can do - and you may have some personal benefits if you survive... As an example check out Reinhold Messner (was a popular climber) - especially his first trip to the Nanga Parbat in the Himalaya Mountains - his Adventures are very extreme - he climbed the highest Mountains without extra oxygen, he walked to the North and Southpole and through the Gobi Desert by feet and so on. Another very extreme person is RĂ¼diger Nehberg - who made adventures to the physical and psychological limit of a human being in situations where it only counts to survive. For sure - even those extreme persons experienced limits and edges for themselves - but only under the premise what is (physically) possible for a human being. On the other hand i dont think you are right - because if you say, that we are in some kind of prison, then i ask you - on whose will? From my pov the term "prison" includes "against your will" - so you may have reasons (ideological, material etc) to act against your will, sometimes. But with a so called "free will, free mind" - the only judge on you can be yourself, right? The only reason to believe that your life is full of suffering is your faith! If you think, suffering is caused by "will of gods" - you may be challenged to interchange your gods... (my opinion) However if you say, that there are other humans that are actually building are kind of "world prison" - terrorizing people with manipulating mass media, lying and betraying their nation i will totally agree. The last point from my side is a thought experiment / question: If we were unlimited, the impulse to improvement would be unnecessary - and there would be no need to reproduce our species - there would be no chance for a next "evolution step", and there could never be a newer human species different from us and afterwards the existing - do you still believe we are "suffering prisoners" here? ^^ (I am very interested in your response) thats it for this time - best regards from germany, Martin I agree with all you had to say.
Yes, if we were unlimited, then our evolution would be complete and we would have no need to replicate ourselves... and the universe would have no need to keep recycling soul energy and continuing our fleshly life on earth. As Gods we could destroy the lesser gods of the earth and/or simply leave this universe, prison or not, behind.
There are men and women who have learned to exceed our normal limits. Those are the ones who are more conscious and close to Awakening. Their world is less like a prison. I too, yearn for liberation and believe it's necessary to strive for freedom.
Ordinarily, man cannot do. He has no will. He simply reacts, drifting through life. It is rare when human beings are conscious enough to have will and to do as they wish. We are under the will and laws of some universal agency which keeps us, potential Gods, enslaved and imprisoned.
If you would like a free PDF of Cthulhu Cult, book one of our bible, just give me your email address and I'll send it to you. We could continue this discussion on the CoC forum if you wish:
cocthulhu.proboards.com/
I appreciate your responses to my video, and thanks for your kind words. I endeavor to improve myself.
VS I agree with you one hundred percent! I left my reply on YouTube as well. Awake
|
|
|
Post by bdsvictory on Jun 27, 2010 14:28:55 GMT -6
Greetings All,
Lord Satanis I really enjoyed the new youtube video and the latest Ooze episode. As a man who lived in an actual prison for 6 years, a Texas prison at that, I deeply agree with your basic idea about our living in a prison.
I spent 6 years in Texas prison and have been out for a little over a year now. Living in an obvious prison is ofcourse a great struggle. One sees the bars, and the ugly guards and the guard towers wherever one turns. One hears the sound of slamming doors and buzzers. One is constantly being barked at, yelled at, challenged etc. etc. Living out in the "free world" is prison on a completely different level.
In an physical prison one can see the bars, out here the bars are for a large part invisible but perhaps more powerful and ever present. I became of the Black Iron Prison (the world we all live in) while I was living in the Texas prison system. Living in Texas prison the suffering and dissatisfaction was constant. I quickly came to the realization that I had the ability to transform my subjective reality and that this would transform my experience of the objective reality of prison. I began to realize that I could make a prison break within my own nervous sytem. I began to explore various techniques and methods for this transformation and this process is what firmly set me on the LHP. I achieved state of total fearlessness and freedom within those prison walls. From the heights of these realizations and began to recognize that my life before prison, and the lives of most people outside the prison walls were the lives of prisoners and a whole other level. If people do not realize that they are in a prison they will never attempt to escape...this is what makes the Black Iron Prison the most oppressive prison of all.
Now I differ with you on suffering being the golden thread connecting us all. I am not sure that there is anything that really connects us all. If there is, I am much more inclined to think that it would be illussion that connects us. Because the prison is ultimately an illussion. We create the walls and the doors and we can develope the ability to walk through them at anytime. But it requires Work. One of my favorite teachings gleaned from the ToS is the statement from Stephen Flowers that we need to, "Awake, See, Act." The first step, the most important step, is to Awake. Awake and see that we are in a prison. Awake and see that we are living in illussion almost 100% of the time. From these moments of Awakening and Seeing it is then possible to figure out how to act....but not before.
Dont get me wrong, we suffer, I suffer, but I find that my suffering id generally tied to my illussion. So to me, at this point, the root is illussion. There is also this sense of dissatisfaction that acts as a motivator. Since my early, early youth I have felt this sense that Life could be, and should be so much more. This dissatisfaction is what set me on the Quest to begin with. Perhaps this dissatisfaction could be an aspect of suffering, and can definately be expereinced as suffering....but it is also a wonderful thing, a great hint at the Mysterion, the Runa, that is lurking behind the curtains of "reality".
I would recommend this topic of prison being used for episode 4 of The Ooze.
AWAKE!
|
|
|
Post by bdsvictory on Jun 27, 2010 14:40:35 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by I AM the Way on Jun 27, 2010 16:22:44 GMT -6
Thank you, Sarak G'hash.
And thanks for your practical experience on the subject bdsvictory. It is much appreciated. Other than illusion, which is difficult to notice even at the best of times, suffering is commonplace. It is everywhere and always perceptible. The two are tied together, I'm glad you noticed that.
Personally, I would change this to: see, act, Awake! That is my own bias, however.
I will read through The Black Iron Prison when I have a bit more time. Been so busy with Cult related projects and books that it borders on the absurd.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
|
|
|
Post by bdsvictory on Jun 27, 2010 16:41:41 GMT -6
Lord Satanis,
Well it is always a good thing to have meaningful work to do yes?
Just finished listening to the new Ooze episode and it was stellar.
AWAKE!
|
|
|
Post by egodiabolus on Jun 28, 2010 21:55:36 GMT -6
My video response can be found at:www.youtube.com/user/egodiabolus666#p/u/0/xP_rUUB1Rtc One of the best aspects of this organization vs. similar organizations is that no one here claims to have the ultimate answer, and that we can choose to disagree, even with our High Priest. For me, the issue isn't so much "are we in a prison", but "if we are, what practical things can we do about it?"
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
|
|
|
Post by natalia666 on Jun 28, 2010 22:01:32 GMT -6
I hate to sound incredibly cheesy, but I still feel the Matrix movie expressed the best analogy of it all. Of course, that movie is simply based on Hindu teachings and such.
What is fascinating is how does one respond to this "matrix/prison" which we exist in? The right handed path tends to work with this 'matrix', allying with the forces thereof, the Demiurge, and whatnot.
While the left-handed path is antinomian. It goes against the 'matrix/universe/prison', awakening from the illusion and becoming their own Separate Intelligence, yet still working it to their benefit. Or to the point of being "anti-cosmic", seeking to break the restrictions and destroy these Demiurge forces.
Then I have met many who are in the middle, primarily witches, who are still rather 'rogue' but only semi-ally with the Universe/matrix/prison, etc.
That's the best analogy I can think of. Personally, I am a bit of each, depending on the day and mood.
|
|
|
Post by I AM the Way on Jun 28, 2010 23:20:41 GMT -6
Hells yeah, brother. I definitely appreciate someone who can challenge my own ideas!
You should send that to me as a video response to the original Are we in prison? video.
I commented on your video Priest of R'lyeh Ego Diabolus, but let me briefly touch on my response here. You're right, the prison metaphor can be taken too far once one is farther along in The Work, especially if it starts to create a victim mentality. However, for 99% of people reading/watching, I feel that we can safely call our normal state of existence a prison.
Maybe we'll even hear from that other guy who made a response video. He didn't think I was acknowledging the value of taking responsibility for one's own thoughts, actions, and life. Obviously, I do. We can't work if unless we realize it all stars with us. Hopefully, that Shawn Hartnell guy will show up and we can get deeper into the discussion.
This.
Great response, natalia666! You'll get your first bit of good karma from me right now. And welcome to the CoC forum.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
|
|
|
Post by ragnafa on Jun 28, 2010 23:21:31 GMT -6
First and foremost the best video yet. I firmly believe in your teachings Master, We our so blind to our full potential(myself included). In my opinion when all the oppressive bullshit is gone and this earth is back to what the Old ones once had it we will be able, like your video said shoot fire balls and etc... We need to destroy oppressive religions and government infrastructure's and you all know what ones i'm talking about. I'm not one with words and i'm not the smartest here but I know what needs to be done. Humanity is weak and will perish. We need to take this cult to higher levels go deeper, I may sound crazy but I'm a firm believer in the Old ones in actual beings and when the stars are right they will come. We are the ones to do that we have the power to break the barriers and make this world ours. Guide us Master Satanis bring us home. In the words of Kreia from knights of the old republic Awake. Now I must go to bed Big job interview today. Ia, Ia, Cthulhu.
|
|
|
Post by bdsvictory on Jun 29, 2010 6:20:43 GMT -6
Greetings,
I am not sure that the danger lies in taking the prison analogy too far. I tend to think the danger lies in not taking it far enough. What is it that makes people feel a litte bit uneasy with this analogy? Perhaps in thinking about the prison, one begins to notice the shadow that the cell bars cast across the floor....
On last Saturday's Ooze the question of the origin of this prison was raised. I tend to think that the prison is a creation of the larger culture into which we are born. The prison is largely composed of all the programming we recieve as we live in this culture, in this world. This is, I think, one of the main reasons for antinomianism to be such a central element in the LHP. One has to learn to systematically break that programming. The first hints of freedom are tasted when one breaks that programming and discovers that they have the ability to re-program as they see fit.
Why can we not shoot fire balls out of our hands? I am not convinced that we cannot. Of course it is far fetched but there are plenty of examples in the literature of magic where advanced adepts are able to bend objective reality. The Tibet of pre-Chinese invasion was a whole society dedicated to cranking out enlightened masters and there are plenty of accounts, from both believers and outside observers, of siddhas being able to accomplish incredible feats. To name a few: flight, walking through walls, telepathy, generation of fire and heat, living on air, etc. Now perhaps all of this is bullshit, I dont know. But I am not willing to accept that because I cannot shoot fire balls out of my hands that it is an impossibility.
AWAKE!
|
|
|
Post by egodiabolus on Jun 29, 2010 8:36:35 GMT -6
Greetings, I am not sure that the danger lies in taking the prison analogy too far. I tend to think the danger lies in not taking it far enough. What is it that makes people feel a litte bit uneasy with this analogy? Perhaps in thinking about the prison, one begins to notice the shadow that the cell bars cast across the floor.... On last Saturday's Ooze the question of the origin of this prison was raised. I tend to think that the prison is a creation of the larger culture into which we are born. The prison is largely composed of all the programming we recieve as we live in this culture, in this world. This is, I think, one of the main reasons for antinomianism to be such a central element in the LHP. One has to learn to systematically break that programming. The first hints of freedom are tasted when one breaks that programming and discovers that they have the ability to re-program as they see fit. Why can we not shoot fire balls out of our hands? I am not convinced that we cannot. Of course it is far fetched but there are plenty of examples in the literature of magic where advanced adepts are able to bend objective reality. The Tibet of pre-Chinese invasion was a whole society dedicated to cranking out enlightened masters and there are plenty of accounts, from both believers and outside observers, of siddhas being able to accomplish incredible feats. To name a few: flight, walking through walls, telepathy, generation of fire and heat, living on air, etc. Now perhaps all of this is bullshit, I dont know. But I am not willing to accept that because I cannot shoot fire balls out of my hands that it is an impossibility. AWAKE! I agree with you on this point; that the "prison" we experience is largely a manifestation of the social pressures we experience; pre-defined gender roles, ethnic stereo-types, financial class-restrictions, et al... These definitions tell you who you are and what your limitations may be. You can either live within those artificial parameters or see them as artificial and work to discover your real parameters and potential. We must observe ourselves and our surroundings, remember ourselves, and question all things to ensure that we are thinking our own thoughts, feeling our own emotions, and behaving consciously rather than just obediently following unconsciously whatever current of influence we find ourselves in.
This does not mean we resist all currents. There are times when it is beneficial to choose to go with the flow. The difference is knowing you are making the choice to do so.
As to the "miracles" of the siddhas, as impressive as these feats may be, do you ever hear about any of them applying their talents in a practical manner? Where is the siddha who learned to levitate and used that skill to travel the world? What about the siddha who used telepathy to bring the minds of disparate factions together for the betterment of society? Which siddha used his ability to generate heat and fire as a cheap energy source for his village by teaching this skill to others? History abounds with tales of the fantastic being accomplished in far-away lands by glory-whores who are little more than an interesting side-show for tourists.
When such miracles are accomplished closer to home and with a practical application (vehicular flight, flame throwers, body language reading programs), we are not impressed. Knowing how the trick is done somehow robs it of its magic. But, that is a trick in itself, isn't it? By making these miracles common-place, we are induced into not trying to discover practical miracles for our own use that would give us advantages over the rest of the herd. Worse, some of us seek the secrets of the fakirs of the East with no practical value in exchange for doing what miracles are within our own means to accomplish with the potential to reshape reality.
The Fourth Way argument would be the necessity that we turn away from "influences A" (money, sex, career, family, country) and focus on "influences B" (spiritual development, personal evolution). The problem with this is that the Fourth Way also requires, at least initially, that the individual needs to apply the Work in the real world... the place where "influences A" are the strongest. To resolve this issue I look to Maslow. His Hierarchy of Need demonstrates that until we fulfill "influences A" satisfactorily, we cannot really begin to pursue "influences B".
I would take it a step further, suggesting that "influences A" are a part of the transition into "influences B", that there is no reason that our jobs, our family life, our civic duties, cannot also be spiritually fulfilling and conducive to our evolution. In fact, if that is not the case, then we should strive to discover who to change our circumstances.
"Prison" is an analogy that suggests we are each restricted by external influences and our own internal attitudes toward those influences. It is an adversarial relationship that we cannot be passive about dealing with. Once we begin to recognize and understand that relationship, we should not only see the "prison", but also the potential for escape.
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
|
|
|
Post by ragnafa on Jun 29, 2010 9:31:18 GMT -6
Well said
|
|
|
Post by natalia666 on Jun 29, 2010 10:48:06 GMT -6
From my understanding and studying of siddhis, the Yogi is not to purposely seek out siddhis, rather, it is a by product of their enlightenment. They say to purposely seek out a siddhi is counter productive to enlightenment. Also, a siddhi is only to be used if it aids in their own personal enlightenment, which may or may not be using it for others, such as healing, etc. Of course this is a very right-handed perspective on the matter. But that is their reasoning for not using siddhis in excess. Also, to use it in a practical manner, such as uniting factions or the better of a society, is interrupting others karma, etc, in a forceful manner. I am curious if anyone has ever read the Castaneda series? The shaman Don Juan Matus, an incredibly advanced sorcerer, openly does such things that are against physics. The way he explains it, is that our consciousness is so hooked into "Reason", as he calls it, that we cannot fluently shift our point of Awareness. That everything is an emanation of energy and only our perception gives it the shape it has. I highly suggest the series. Ignore Carlos Castaneda, only read the words of Don Juan. Also, on the subject of siddhis, this is an amazing book with a cheesy title. It covers each meditation for achieving siddihis via Raja Yoga. It also explains in depth the explanation and use of siddhis. www.yrf.org/bookform.html"Yoga Secret of Psychic Powers"
|
|
|
Post by egodiabolus on Jun 29, 2010 17:19:22 GMT -6
From my understanding and studying of siddhis, the Yogi is not to purposely seek out siddhis, rather, it is a by product of their enlightenment. They say to purposely seek out a siddhi is counter productive to enlightenment. Also, a siddhi is only to be used if it aids in their own personal enlightenment, which may or may not be using it for others, such as healing, etc. Of course this is a very right-handed perspective on the matter. But that is their reasoning for not using siddhis in excess. Also, to use it in a practical manner, such as uniting factions or the better of a society, is interrupting others karma, etc, in a forceful manner. This just goes to my point. What it seems that you are saying is that the Yogi, in seeking enlightenment, might come inadvertently into knowledge that could cure all diseases, eliminate hunger, and end all conflict in the world, but since it is not part of the direct path to their enlightenment, they ignore it. Or, they have the power to do something about it, but they don't want to interfere with anyone's "karma". You know, in some communities here in the US if you stand and watch a crime being committed without acting within your power to stop it you can be charged as an accomplice.
What value are these talents, or that kind of "enlightenment", if it serves no other purpose? The common ditch-digger who struggles daily to put food on the table for his children is more enlightened and will have a greater legacy than the majority of these yogis combined.
Carnival hucksters give the same excuses. To use their powers beyond the stage would be a "gross abuse" and interfere with the "natural order".
Thankfully, this is a LHP forum, and our focus is on the practical, and not the interesting esoteric curiosities of the Far East. A Volume of "Ripley's Believe It or Not" would probably serve as enlightening on the subject as any other text.
And, Natalie, please don't take this personally. Our Work here just focuses on personal evolution (what some would refer to as "enlightenment") through practical methods. To that end, I would suggest a book about Bill Gates or by Abbey Hoffman if one were looking for something useful instead of entertaining.
Awake!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
|
|
|
Post by natalia666 on Jun 29, 2010 18:06:33 GMT -6
That would be Natalia.
And that reply was not to advocate nor defend them, rather, it was an answer to your questions in your last post. That is their reasoning. They do not pursue 'siddhi for the sake of siddhi', they pursue moksha. If it does not assist in moksha, then they do not aim for it. I would rather understand their spiritual logistics and perspective instead of quickly judging it.
As for books being entertaining, that was not to be entertaining. It would behoove a left-handed magician to study such meditations and use such siddhis for their own personal achievement. Even if one does not agree with the ideology. It is small minded to dismiss such simply because it is not devoutly left-handed. Yogis can developed very powerful practices that can easily be used for left-handed causes. But enjoy your Ripleys as you like.
|
|
|
Post by bdsvictory on Jun 29, 2010 18:17:15 GMT -6
Greetings All,
My point about the Siddhas was simply to point out that shooting fire balls (as Lord Satanis referenced) might not be an actual impossibility, no matter how far fetched. In my opinion the larger point in regards to the Siddhas is that object reality might not be as set in stone as we typically expereince it to be.
I agree with the point about this being an LHP forum but should mention that this very designation originates in the East. As a magician I have no qualms about seeking personal power, wealth, prestige etc. for myself and my kilth and kin. If along the way I happen to develop some sort of objective reality bending powers I will use them as I see fit. Of course the dominant culture in the East says these things should not be sought for themselves but there is a sinister current that teaches otherwise, as there should be.
I also understand the point regarding practical methods, but as an LHP practioner I dont see a hard and fast rule regarding what is practical and what is impractical and I imagine (or I hope) that the paths will be as varied as the practioners.
Again, my point in bringing up the Siddhas was to give an example of individuals learning (supposedly...it could all be bullshit of course) how to "break the laws" of objective reality. My ultimate point (to again reference Lord Satanis) is that just because we can not shoot fire balls out of our hands right at the moment does not necessarily mean it is impossible.
I would also like to point out that once again the members and supporters of the CoC are amazing me with the greatness of these forums. I really love these conversations. Great. Hail to all those who have contributed!
AWAKE!
|
|
|
Post by egodiabolus on Jun 29, 2010 19:24:53 GMT -6
That would be Natalia. And that reply was not to advocate nor defend them, rather, it was an answer to your questions in your last post. That is their reasoning. They do not pursue 'siddhi for the sake of siddhi', they pursue moksha. If it does not assist in moksha, then they do not aim for it. I would rather understand their spiritual logistics and perspective instead of quickly judging it. As for books being entertaining, that was not to be entertaining. It would behoove a left-handed magician to study such meditations and use such siddhis for their own personal achievement. Even if one does not agree with the ideology. It is small minded to dismiss such simply because it is not devoutly left-handed. Yogis can developed very powerful practices that can easily be used for left-handed causes. But enjoy your Ripleys as you like. "Natalia",
My bad about the name.
Cool, they aim for the "moksha" and not the "siddhi".
I am not dismissing it because it is not devoutly LHP. I am dismissing it because I have not seen demonstrated a practical application for what they do. You say that their "very powerful practices that can easily be used for left-handed causes"... by "left-hand" I assume you mean "practical". If that is the case, I would love to hear more. In my study, the benefits have been limited to physical health and to some extent engendering a sense of well being. These ends are accomplished through their most basic exercises, from that point the pursuit tends to be spiritual and not serve a practical purpose (again, based on the materials I have studied). I can admire a guy who can stand on one leg for years at a time in the pursuit of spiritual enlightenment or whatever, but what would be gained by emulating him in a practical sense?
I defer to you. You are probably more up on this than I am. If you can point to an exercise, process, technique, or teaching that the members of this forum can use to their benefit in a practical manner, then that is the kind of thing we are looking for. I wasn't trying to bust your chops. I am certain that the information you provide to support your claims will be well worth examining, and I am looking forward to it.
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
|
|
|
Post by egodiabolus on Jun 29, 2010 19:35:40 GMT -6
Greetings All, My point about the Siddhas was simply to point out that shooting fire balls (as Lord Satanis referenced) might not be an actual impossibility, no matter how far fetched. In my opinion the larger point in regards to the Siddhas is that object reality might not be as set in stone as we typically expereince it to be. I agree with the point about this being an LHP forum but should mention that this very designation originates in the East. As a magician I have no qualms about seeking personal power, wealth, prestige etc. for myself and my kilth and kin. If along the way I happen to develop some sort of objective reality bending powers I will use them as I see fit. Of course the dominant culture in the East says these things should not be sought for themselves but there is a sinister current that teaches otherwise, as there should be. I also understand the point regarding practical methods, but as an LHP practioner I dont see a hard and fast rule regarding what is practical and what is impractical and I imagine (or I hope) that the paths will be as varied as the practioners. Again, my point in bringing up the Siddhas was to give an example of individuals learning (supposedly...it could all be bullshit of course) how to "break the laws" of objective reality. My ultimate point (to again reference Lord Satanis) is that just because we can not shoot fire balls out of our hands right at the moment does not necessarily mean it is impossible. I would also like to point out that once again the members and supporters of the CoC are amazing me with the greatness of these forums. I really love these conversations. Great. Hail to all those who have contributed! AWAKE! I agree that what is "practical" will be relative. For some, the pursuit of an transcendental state is practical.
I agree that developing the ability to will fireballs out of one's hand is always within the realm of possibility (and sounds really cool). I question the pursuit when simpler means of accomplishing that goal exist. I assume this is why yogi pursue moksha and not siddhi.
I do find it disappointing that we need to look to the esoteric East to find examples of the powerful application of will. It lessens the miraculous that is around us every day. I would guess that this is an issue of my own perspective, I seem to be in the minority that doesn't reduce the value of a miracle based on its commonality or practical application. Inspiration is where you find it, I suppose. I tend to look closer to home.
You folks are all adding to the vibrancy and strength of these discussions, so please, press on, regardless of what some asshole Priest of R'lyeh might say.
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
|
|
|
Post by natalia666 on Jun 29, 2010 20:18:02 GMT -6
The most popular form of Yoga, especially in the New Age Holistic movement, is Hatha Yoga, which is primarily the physical Yoga. Physical Yoga simply prepares the body for advancement. That is where one might find the odd stances. Raja Yoga is pretty much direct simple meditation. Where one attains gnosis/superconsciousness. From Raja Yoga/Gnosis/Superconsciousness, as that book explains, one can attain specific siddhis. This being telepathy, bending time, animal strength, charisma, etc.
Yoga is indeed a spiritual science and with the right intent can be bent to empower the Self rather than "nirvana".
As for shooting fireballs from your hands...I believe it is completely possible, but requires both being advanced and a great deal of energy. And one must ask, what is the practicality of shooting a fire ball from your hand? Or any supernatural feat for that matter? Such as physically manifesting an entity or shape shifting, etc.
I believe such things do happen in the West, well within America. It is just kept very private and in today's society such talk is outright absurd.
|
|
|
Post by egodiabolus on Jun 29, 2010 20:55:50 GMT -6
The most popular form of Yoga, especially in the New Age Holistic movement, is Hatha Yoga, which is primarily the physical Yoga. Physical Yoga simply prepares the body for advancement. That is where one might find the odd stances. Raja Yoga is pretty much direct simple meditation. Where one attains gnosis/superconsciousness. From Raja Yoga/Gnosis/Superconsciousness, as that book explains, one can attain specific siddhis. This being telepathy, bending time, animal strength, charisma, etc. Yoga is indeed a spiritual science and with the right intent can be bent to empower the Self rather than "nirvana". As for shooting fireballs from your hands...I believe it is completely possible, but requires both being advanced and a great deal of energy. And one must ask, what is the practicality of shooting a fire ball from your hand? Or any supernatural feat for that matter? Such as physically manifesting an entity or shape shifting, etc. I believe such things do happen in the West, well within America. It is just kept very private and in today's society such talk is outright absurd. Thank you for the explanation, Natalia. Such miracles do occur in the west. As I type this, a viewing box is providing me live images of scenes from half-way around the world, a kind of clairvoyance. With a simple flip of my fingers, I am able to reproduce the first act of the Christian God according to their Bible (on no doubt a much smaller scale). I need only wave a particular magic wand here on my table, and I am instantly able to communicate with virtually anyone instantly. I have wands which produce fire, balms and elixirs which stupefy, cure disease, or cause destruction. I even have books at my disposal that will transport me to fantastic worlds.
My point being that my television, lamps, cell-phone, lighters, medicines, and video-game systems which are no less a miraculous feat that will than the efforts of the Yogi. I am aware that I am writing this for those who may lack our mutual understanding, but our purpose here is to spell some of these things out (no pun intended). If you can discover the miraculous in the most mundane aspects of your life, then your life will be a mystical journey with lessons for enlightenment around every corner and wonders to be discovered in every day. People have the unfortunate habit of devaluing their own experiences and grasping for those things which seem "exotic".
I am not opposed to finding inspiration in the lessons of the Samadhi, Yama, Niyama, Pranayama, Asana, Dhyana, Pratyahara, Dharana... I know I am leaving one out. It will come to me after I post this. I only hope that in the pursuit of such far off sources we do not forget to take stock in what we have available to us in our immediate lives.
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
Ego Diabolus Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
|
|
|
Post by bdsvictory on Jun 29, 2010 21:09:30 GMT -6
Greetings All,
I completely agree with finding inspiration at home so to speak. The esteemed Priest of R'lyeh provides us with examples from our daily lives of things that seem miraculous.
I am coming to this particular discussion on the heels of the last 3 episodes of The Ooze and so my particular focus, as far as this thread goes, is the question of the manipulation of objective reality by subjective means, and perhaps even the breaking of the "laws" of objective reality by the art of magic. This is why I offer the example of the Siddhas as oppossed to computer technology. I think the Siddhas provide an easy example because they developed in a cultural matrix that recognized this possibility and provided a space for those who dared to enter that realm of magic. There are of course examples in the West but the West has never provided much of a space for this, it has always had to be hidden to a certain degree, and therefore the examples are a bit harder to come by. That being said, I do feel it is important for people to investigate the magical traditions of their ethno/linguistic heritage. Great meaning and connection can be uncovered this way.
So, computers, cars, planes etc. are amazing and incredible advances in human technology and scientific understanding but they all operate on principles of natural "law". Shooting fire balls from my hands would be much more than interesting and novel, it would represent a truly magical act in that it would be a breaking of this "law' and a bending of objective reality to the Will of the magician.
AWAKE!
|
|
|
Post by natalia666 on Jun 29, 2010 21:26:56 GMT -6
I think there is a great point to be made here. As stated, 'supernatural feats' would require a strong degree of advancement and a good bit of energy. Although we may ponder if such is possible or not within this 'matrix' we exist in. Perhaps a bigger question is "with or against 'mundane' laws"?
If one wants to change eye color, do they strain for some supernatural feat or simply buy colored contacts? The answer is obvious. Same goes for cash, do we strain for a supernatural feat of money 'manifesting instantly' or rather receiving a good job/promotion? Point being, one 'goes against mundane laws', the other goes with 'mundane' laws, assuming they are 'laws'. I suppose we could say it flows with our Agreed Reality.
The technology of today was the magick of yesterday. Personally I am a pragmatic physicalist on most days. Nothing changes Reality quicker than action. But of course, practitioners wander how far and extreme magick can get. What 'feats' are actually possible and how?
|
|
|
Post by I AM the Way on Jun 29, 2010 23:38:25 GMT -6
Thoughts?
Awake!
VS
|
|
|
Post by natalia666 on Jun 29, 2010 23:58:25 GMT -6
You put out great videos. I would feel more comfortable at a keyboard myself, I understand that, but your videos are more than adequate.
I like how you described it in stages. There are stages of "anti-cosmic", which is the best word I know to describe it. I believe it is the furthest and fiercest degrees of the LHP. I have only just begun to experience it.
To me, it is waking up and realizing we are in prison, in our Mind AND in the Universe. Then we realize, wtf keeps me here? wtf holds me back? From there, a feral aggressive predatory hunger takes over, an anger really, to push the Self, to overcome the limits, and to break free. It is demonic in the truest sense.
And I wander, what does "breaking free" entail? Does it simply mean ruling in this plane? or does it mean tearing the fabric of Reality? Does it mean waking the Primordial Ancients Ones? The 'anti-cosmic' current is indeed powerful.
|
|
|
Post by I AM the Way on Jun 30, 2010 10:17:08 GMT -6
Good question. I intend to find out sooner rather than later. Who is with me?
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
|
|
|
Post by ragnafa on Jun 30, 2010 23:41:56 GMT -6
Being a theistic Lovecraftian and Cthulhu Cultist I'm with you Master Satanis.....Destroy Reality become something new, break free from this flesh.
Awake, Cultist, Awake...Ia,Ia, Cthulhu.
|
|
|
Post by ragnafa on Jun 30, 2010 23:43:49 GMT -6
The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age.
This Is what we must strive to do. Awake.
|
|
|
Post by natalia666 on Jul 1, 2010 14:07:29 GMT -6
After contemplating this and actively focusing on self-remembering. An interesting analogy came to me. There is the typical "we are a soul/higher self within a shell playing this lifetimes role", which isn't too inaccurate, but to me, somewhat fails in practical 'self-remembering'.
Perhaps a better explanation, is that we are an 'alien force' within this 'matrix/prison' separate from the mass sleepers. By alien, I don't necessarily mean 'green men' of course, but rather, an Outside force/entity. This has rendered much stronger results in self-remembering. I realize I am an 'alien entity/consciousness' that is separate from this daily mundane existence.
Magick is not too difficult. Shaping my subjective reality, and shaping objective reality, making my stay in this 'matrix/prison' suit my desires/interests. But what of breaking free of it? Again it comes back to that.
|
|
|
Post by ragnafa on Jul 1, 2010 22:44:47 GMT -6
What if has often been the Question. Break the barriers of reality. And through our power we will do much more. Embrace everything that is not.........Awake ye Cultist....Awake.
|
|