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Post by Apsara Kamalli on Jun 14, 2010 22:47:05 GMT -6
I have recently begun reading Ouspensky's "The Fourth Way." I have several questions already that I'm working through, and I'm looking for other perspectives of what I'm reading. I realize that I'm at a basic level, and that I'm sure he will explain in greater detail later in the book.
On page five, Ouspensky discusses the four levels of consciousness: asleep, awake, self-consciousness, and objective consciousness. He states that level four, objective consciousness, is "inaccessible to us because it can only be reached through self-consciousness." He describes how we live in asleep or awake states only, with mere moments of self-consciousness. Because the instances of self-consciousness are so fleeting, objective consciousness would not possible.
The book is a collection of his meetings from 1921 - 1946. My question is, with our increase in life span and an arguably faster rate of evolution, does this idea of limitation still apply? With the added awareness in some individuals, and the extended years of life we have to do the “work,” wouldn't it be more likely for each of us, if diligent and open, to reach the objective consciousness described?
Awake!
AK
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Post by I AM the Way on Jun 15, 2010 9:58:26 GMT -6
Glad your reading one of the essential tomes, my friend.
Do these limitations still apply? Absolutely. A longer lifespan and even being attached to a favorable aeon will not carry you along to a state which is evolved enough for objective consciousness.
Consider the levels like this... normal sleep is like standing still. Waking sleep is like walking, subjective consciousness or self-consciousness is like jogging, and objective consciousness is like running. It's a natural progression. If you've never jogged for more than a few seconds of your life, then how can you expect to run. Especially since our aim is to run a marathon, not just a fleeting sprint here and there.
Ouspensky isn't saying that objective consciousness is impossible, either for us or the people of his day. What he means is that it takes time and effort. A few of Ouspensky's contemporaries reached objective consciousness and so will we, hopefully more than a few.
I can already sense another question arising in some of your minds... when Ouspensky refers to objective consciousness, he means seeing things, outside of ourselves, as they really are. Not just seeing an illusory facade. I don't think he was talking about a "God's eye view" of every subjective layer possible which might add up to a totality of objective reality. But even if he was talking about that kind of objective consciousness, our task is the same: to understand our selves much better than we currently do. The third level of awareness is crucial to our evolution.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by lucofthelight on Jun 17, 2010 4:10:10 GMT -6
I've been working really hard to develop an awareness such as the Objective Consciousness you speak of High Priest Satanis. I don't profess to have sustained anything for long periods but I have had snippets of viewing things from outside myself. Usually whilst working and practising self observation I've been having success separating myself from my body consciousness so to speak. I try to see myself from over the other side of the room by using Eckart Tolles technique of being 'The Watcher' and seeing me, that dude over there working away. Or sometimes a bit closer just above my head looking down at myself hearing the thoughts that 'he' is having, seeing the mechanicalness of my working movements and how the body works without me having to even think. Also looking at what triggers my emotions from this semi-detatched state. It's like The Watcher/Experiencer is the real me viewing the machine of the Moving, Emotional and Intellectual centres. I'm also trying this while having conversations with people. I try to see my expressions and body language and emotions from outside myself. It is difficult but it is getting easier. I supplement the in between times of this practice of self observing with self remembering and practice to sustain that for as long as I can, and when I begin slipping into identification or imagination, which always happens I bring my thoughts back to self remembering which is an experience I'm starting to get a feel for. Also now being able to consciously realize beforehand what will most likely happen in the next moment such as identifying with something or being swayed by imagination I now have more confidence in The System as it certainly is producing verifiable results.
Thank you Aspara for starting this thread! I'm just on the last 30 pages of that book myself and it has been quite a challenge for me to get through. I will definitely be going back to study it again as there is so much to absorb. I found The Fourth Way and In search of the miraculous to be great companion books as they cover essentially the same ideas but are written differently helping me absorb the ideas from multiple angles.
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
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Post by andrewbloodworth on Oct 8, 2010 3:24:10 GMT -6
I have the Fourth Way ordered and on its way. Been reading the posts and can't wait to sink my teeth into it. I'm almost done with The Power of Now, and its a awesome book. I wanted this book as a starting point after reading Master Satanis post about it being easier to understand.
It is easy to understand and been applying what i learned. I look forward to reading the Fourth Way. In the meantime your posts about it getting me geared up. It seems with the Power of Now that if one thinks too much about what is being read then there lies the problem.
I'm sure the Fourth Way is the same. The Power of Now is the feeling, the feeling of being, the feeling of conscious. One loses and involves the mind when you think too much about what is being read/said. I think ( there i go,lol) that we are trying to understand and therefor involve our mind, our thinking process and therefor missing the whole point. One has to feel what is being read/said.
Awake!
Ia Ia Cthulhu Fhtagn!
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