Madguten
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Woe, to he who hears the howling
Posts: 2,785
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Post by Madguten on Mar 22, 2009 11:43:42 GMT -6
I agree.
I often have the same thoughts about people who have learned what to think from reading in "the rules". I mean, it is fine and dandy but it is just not my way either.
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 22, 2009 12:12:18 GMT -6
amen. or should i say... ia ia!
VS
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Mar 22, 2009 19:24:07 GMT -6
Rules, To me, they are more of a sort of guidline anyway! hehe
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Madguten
Moderator
CoC forum moderator
Woe, to he who hears the howling
Posts: 2,785
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Post by Madguten on Mar 22, 2009 20:02:23 GMT -6
Yeah,
The way i see it, guidelines and rules of thought CAN serve a productive function (as with anything else it is relative and the borders are invisible). It can be as sharp a tool of production as it can be a blade of destruction.
It can be a reminder of wisdoms that one had forgotten, it can help one to avoid making the same mistakes again and again, aiding one in finding useful truths.
BUT
It can also do the opposite. It is so basic as anything can be, rules are walls.
Walls can shelter, but put up enough walls and you are in a selfmade prison.
Now, attempt to build your way out of your own prison and you have got yourself a labyrinth.
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Post by amble on Mar 23, 2009 1:23:54 GMT -6
The majority of people like being told what to do. They like knowing that other people are happy with the way they are doing things, regardless of whether it is actually working for them that way or not. There must be so many people who get to a certain age and just become jaded and bitter about magick and occultism in general just because they're fed up of being told they're doing it wrong.
There are even a surprising number of fourth way sites that insist that doing anything even slightly against what is expressly written, means that you are doing it wrong...which goes against the whole fourth way idea surely?
On the surface it does seem to be about discovering what goes on in yourself for yourself, and figuring out how to work the machinery yourself. But the self proclaimed "teachers", people who really vehemently advocate the fourth way, seem to be totally against going anywhere close to diverging from the preset path. When surely it is all about making your own route from a basic map that has been given to you. That's how i've understood it anyway. When surely it is all about making your own route from a basic map that has been given to you. That's how i understood it anyway.
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Madguten
Moderator
CoC forum moderator
Woe, to he who hears the howling
Posts: 2,785
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Post by Madguten on Mar 23, 2009 11:02:59 GMT -6
Ia! I agree.
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Post by sin on Mar 24, 2009 9:14:45 GMT -6
It's common, I had a similar discussion about 'soul', complete with personal messages to my inbox with copy/paste dictionary definitions of 'soul.'. I have my own thoughts and ideas about soul, and I didn't need to read the 'rules' in some book to figure that for myself.
I also reject 'Satanic Legalism' which makes me absolutely hurl. "Don't forget Satanic Sin#......", "The Satanic Bible Says......." Give me a break, people have widely missed the point of Satanic philosophy and LHP thought!
[sings lullaby..."go to sleep, go to sleep...."]
I've recently been labeled an iconoclast. I really had to think about that label and whether or not I would accept that as a compliment or an insult. Immediately I think of the Greek origins, as 'Image-breaking'. So what am I doing precisely as an iconoclast? I am breaking the 'image' of a "Satanist" that people have built in their heads? Which image? I strive to break that image of the black sheep, rocking fedoras, and quoting LaVey like automotons. So, in that regard it fits.
I rebel in the public about anything I don't hold true. Don't quote 'rules' and 'dogma' to me - because you get a whole ear-ful of Sin for your trouble :-)
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Post by Sarak G'hash on Jun 11, 2009 17:37:00 GMT -6
ok all of you get a high five from me for this verification of what i already knew!
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Post by sorrowking on Jun 12, 2009 5:36:54 GMT -6
There is no truth...Just you.
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Post by visceralsecrecy on Oct 5, 2009 20:02:50 GMT -6
Wow, this quite a powerful post; topic, if better suited. I would have to say the new age occult movements are mostly bullshit. And the fact that people further assimliate what doesn't make sense in the first place, only unveils their ignorance even more so than an other exemptlified stance. Why point out all the obvious weak points and trail around them just to make whatever mundane points you have seem more practical and innovative. It's just nonsense how that works most of the time, I think. People, in general, don't realize that trying to disprove what doesn't exist to them, is utterly useless and impractical.
Moreover, the Occult, in whatever derivation you chose to recognize it as, should never be equalized or equated with "new age". It defeats and demystifies the entire purpose; the purpose is also not having a solid, coordinated purpose or plan of some sort. It's just not centered around that. The Occult isn't actually supposed to be centered around anything in specific.
Lastly I'll quip that hidden knowlede no longer remains hiddden when translated into a smorgasbord or new age hysteria and pseduo transcendental, psyhic phenomenons. The other thing that's pushed upon the spiritual communites - and I mean the true and legitimate religious practicioners - is that somehow we all posses this psychic sixth sense. How am I going to know more about what I can do, if I act like everyone is capable of the same thing, not a healthy way of learning. We obviously all don't have the ability, and to think we all do is indeed pretty foolish, wouldn't anyone else here think so? But what is very alluring, is that the metaphor for our senses - our other senses, not clearly known to most - are our chakra points. Now that's some serious food for thought in my opinion. Also kind of existential.
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Post by LostSoul on Oct 6, 2009 8:47:40 GMT -6
baa, baa, baaa...
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Post by visceralsecrecy on Oct 7, 2009 18:37:39 GMT -6
What?
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Post by sin on Oct 8, 2009 8:20:16 GMT -6
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Post by darkdescent13 on Jun 1, 2010 15:20:56 GMT -6
I was a part of the wicca scene, if you chose to call it that, for a number of years abut fifteen years ago. I found that a lot of wiccans were xtians at one point in their lives. One reason I got out of it was because I couldn't stop finding parallels between it and xtians, regarding rules and whatnot.
I like CoS's the nine Satanic statements and the 11 rules of the earth, but I think of them as guidelines only. I also think that it was a mistake for LaVey to have written them. As someone said above, people like rules, and sometimes they do serve a purpose, but LaVey wrote them to serve as guidelines. Some Satanists are turning these, including the Satanic sins, into more of the same. Rules. Sinning. Things that thou shalt not do without dire consequences.
In my LHP journey, I've also found that a lot of Satanists were once xtians. And I think that's where these rules are coming from. It's what a lot of people are used to. They were raised that way and have trouble shedding all layers of bullshit from their past.
Like Drenki, I like finding truths rather than rules as well. It's the reason I'm drawn to the Cult.
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Post by 10kdays on Jun 1, 2010 22:54:09 GMT -6
Interesting point, Aspara. Perhaps there is a line of genetics somewhere which dictates a lust for "normal", or even something more esoteric. Whatever the case, it is increasingly evident that we need to operate as individuals and not sheep, relying on abstract thought and doubt of the status quo.
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Post by darkdescent13 on Jun 2, 2010 4:01:14 GMT -6
I agree, Aspara. I think that the need for rules does go much deeper than people simply 'liking' them, as I put it above. I suppose I was going for a more surface explanation of what I think. But I agree entirely with what you said.
I think that this need for rules, and the need for the individual to fit in within his or hers society, goes back to primitive times. Even then the human animal was a social, or tribal, creature back then. It is the reason we are here today, discussing such topics with each other when most LHP peoples, who are normally outcasts from the herd and prefer it that way, feel the need to band together.
All this is indeed very mechanical, but obviously not necessary. Breaking free from these is what makes you a true individual. That is one truth I have come to learn.
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Post by lokidreaming on Dec 29, 2010 21:17:58 GMT -6
From my perspective, no matter what type group exists, people will always full back sheep like into the natural order of things eg, leaders, followers, class clowns, the know it alls, the you have to follow the rule all the times etc etc.
This is similar to a public bus breaking down and everyone has to get off the bus and get on the new one. Have you ever noticed how people are literally fighting to get back to the original seat they were on from the original bus?
From my observations of the occult communities those pagan sheep and occult sheep haven't got past a few character flaws which most occultists refer to shedding the false egos.
A prime example of Pagan Occult Sheep is the SIN chat rooms, highly recommend you guys go on there.
One of the traps of shedding the false ego is you can trick yourself into believing you have shed the false ego, which in turn starts another circle of shedding the false ego until.....
Mmm, wonder if that is another part to those many NEOS in the Matrix Movies?
On the other hand some adept occultists tend to choose a part to play for what ever reason.
Believe Is Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by I AM the Way on Dec 30, 2010 11:24:53 GMT -6
From my perspective, no matter what type group exists, people will always full back sheep like into the natural order of things eg, leaders, followers, class clowns, the know it alls, the you have to follow the rule all the times etc etc. This is similar to a public bus breaking down and everyone has to get off the bus and get on the new one. Have you ever noticed how people are literally fighting to get back to the original seat they were on from the original bus? From my observations of the occult communities those pagan sheep and occult sheep haven't got past a few character flaws which most occultists refer to shedding the false egos. A prime example of Pagan Occult Sheep is the SIN chat rooms, highly recommend you guys go on there. One of the traps of shedding the false ego is you can trick yourself into believing you have shed the false ego, which in turn starts another circle of shedding the false ego until..... Mmm, wonder if that is another part to those many NEOS in the Matrix Movies? On the other hand some adept occultists tend to choose a part to play for what ever reason. Believe Is Reality Loki Dreaming Can you restructure or even rewrite your post for better clarification, brother?
For instance, what about Neo from The Matrix? What happened on SIN that makes you feel that way? Elaborate on what you feel. Can you explain the bus analogy in a different way? What happens if you keep shedding false egos or do you mean that false ego isn't being shed at all?
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis High Priest Cult of Cthulhu
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