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Post by egodiabolus on Feb 13, 2009 21:07:37 GMT -6
Time=Money
What is your purpose in this "reality"...this society...or for our purposes, this prison? Consider this question without ego (ha!) or personal interest. In the grand scheme of things, why are you here? In Western Society, particularly in the U.S, you are here to work and to consume. Most of us (I would dare say "all" of us) are children of the "middle-class". "Middle-class" is an interesting chain, if you take the time to look at it. It has the promise of "upper-class" while denoting being subordinate to something else. This is how the system has us. We are a nation of worker-consumers. Forever, we are enchanted with the promise of the ability to purchase a "better-life", and forever we find that we can only afford "just enough". This frustration with our lot is why we seek other means of satisfaction. It is a purposefully programmed dysfunction. We exist to create the carrots tied to the sticks that keep us working. The "upper-class", the truly elite members of our society at the upper-most tiers, where decisions are made, do not suffer from this. They are "investors", but not in the manner of Wall Street. They buy, sell, and trade us. They show us gilded palaces that they know are just buildings. They promise us incredible distractions that they know are just smoke and mirrors. We grew up in their carefully, purposefully crafted prison; told to desire that which we do not need, to consume as much as possible, to always want more. The ideal worker is one who, while building a thing with his own hands, still believes he is required to purchase it. Think about it...what is to stop a person, or persons, from simply building...whatever. The instructions are on the internet, the materials can be found at the local land-fill. We have been trained on how to perform marvels of technology that would have frightened our ancestors, yet we still consume. We have been lulled into complacency. The ideal worker is one who consumes as much, if not more, than what he produces. That is the real trick. Get them wanting for so much useless garbage, for the illusion of illusionary status (a shadow of a ghost), that they will work themselves to death, never looking up to consider the world around them, never stopping to wonder about their real value. There is a loop-hole...the ultimate social hack.
Time=Money=Power
The slaves of Rome could often buy their freedom. For them, however, the danger was that, once they were free, the lacked the resources of being of the master's house, and unless wise would eventually fall back into slavery. The worker this society fears is the one who does not consume. The worker this society fears is the one that does not care for, or even need, the baubles, the carrot at the end of the stick. That worker works for his own purpose...and woe be unto the society when such a purpose is achieved. How do I know that society fears this? Listen to the news. Less people are at work, fewer purchases are being made. People are not consuming like they did last year. If people do not consume, they might realize they can get along without it. People are loosing houses that they lived pay-check to pay-check to own anyway...for them it is for the better. Their children will be wiser for the lesson. Society fears this...get them back to work in our plants, lest they find work for themselves without us. Consumption is down, yet no one is dying in the street. The businesses whoring their "goods" seem to continue to operate. Society fears an economy without them. They fear a shift in power. The hack is in not consuming, not needing. This does not mean living a sparse and spartan life-style (I know...redundant). This means evaluating every consumption. What is being served? What need is being satisfied? Is this my need? Once you begin consuming less, you will amass more. You will build power within their system, power you can use to ween yourself away from their worker-consumer force. Fuck the Jonses...let them rot in their gilded prisons. We are about building our own "reality". Using the system in this way is just one more step toward being free of it.
Why do you want?
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Post by egodiabolus on Feb 13, 2009 21:34:46 GMT -6
worker-consumer=food for the gods. Loving Liber A:O.
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Feb 14, 2009 8:07:51 GMT -6
Another wonderful sermon, brother.
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Post by sin on Feb 19, 2009 15:15:59 GMT -6
"Fuck the Jonses...let them rot in their gilded prisons."
Man, every one has it out for the Jonses - why because you can't keep up, because they have more than you do, and are more than you are?
Cora'Sahn = Alison Jones
*lol*
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Post by Logos on Feb 21, 2009 11:51:42 GMT -6
Once you begin consuming less, you will amass more. You will build power within their system, power you can use to ween yourself away from their worker-consumer force... Love the overall message - my two cents: - You won't build as much power in the system if you are on the outside of it. You will always have the most power as you go deeper and deeper into the system. The Sly Man must learn to have many different masks to navigate the different layers of the system; become the outsider and the insider all at once. That is the way to transcend the system, for you can never truly escape the system unless you move into the heart of the Yukon or you die.
- Time is not money and never will be. Although I think we can all agree on that, it would prudent to contemplate that saying deeply in regards to how post-industrial societies control the masses within it. Time=Money is the anti-life equation or the Apep of the Post-Modern world; it is the thing that makes people sleep.
- Capitalism leaves us with an interesting dilemma if approached from the Gurdjieff perspective. If we are to transcend certain limitations of our system, we will need to step on other people. If a person is trying to become something more permanent, are we to make others less so in achieving that end? Do we take a sympathetic stance with others and try to help them up the ladder as we do so, or do we take the LaVey stance of just stepping on them that much more?
Cheers!
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Feb 21, 2009 16:49:51 GMT -6
Find ways to free yourself from the system, but be a serpent amongst the sheep. I wear the mask like I am one of them, and they stay out of my way.
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Post by jmsn72 on Feb 22, 2009 21:40:13 GMT -6
This is a good topic and got me wondering something-Considering the current economic crisis,let us say jobs are made once again and are not as scarce do to the efforts of this supposed government bail out,do you think people will ever consume needlessly as they did before this occurred? Has this served as a waking moment for some of us or is it just a minor setback for a vampiric system?It would be interesting to see how innovative and self sufficient people become as a result.Those hit the hardest will probably learn how to deal without ,improvise and spend less time feeling the obligation to slip under mindless consumerism...or am I wrong?Only time will tell. It would be interesting to see small self sufficient communities where if a member has a skill,it is shared for the greater good (at a price of course,but not as usurious as the current system giants,as for the most part I still do support the idea of capitalism) and the network is so close knit that the need for consuming has diminished because people begin to do things on thier own (Such as growing their own food,building their own homes and maintaining them).Most will serve some kind of function or another.Not to say this from a Utopian idealist perspective. I was thinking about how many mom and pop businesses may have served a similar function at some point,(not free of charge of course) before the age of corporate giants and enslavement via media came into play.I wonder if hard times,the weakened economy,mass job loss and an inability to afford or consume will have a positive effect of forcing people to look inward and access their needs and whether their petty wants are truly valid or not.Could this wake some people to relying only on needs rather than fueling such a system?Perhaps could it bring suffering communities of people a togetherness,empathy and willingness to help one another that never existed before these hard times? If it did,how long would it last?Would people remain aware of what is necessary and refuse to indulge this system or will they fall back into the role of consumers spending needlessly and losing themselve to this illusion that their wants are needs?Will we see more self sufficient communities not willing to indulge this system?If so will they last even after the system is back on track and people can afford to assume again?Also could a turn away from simply consuming lead us to a time period of renewed focus on progressing (in sciences,inventions etc)? Or am I too optimistic?Will brother and brother slit each others throats just to be able to consume unwisely?Will fathers sell their daughters just to spend as recklessly as they did in the past.Will more people move to unlawful acts and abuses against others to appease their deluded need to consume?How dark will the world get?Will drug consumption increase and will forced prostitution increase as a result? Lets call the events of current a shock or wake up call.How many of the now disadvantaged masses do you think heed this call and how easily if they do will they slip back under?We'll see how wicked the hearts of humans really are or if they can rise above and become better people.I think it'll be a mixed bucket as it always was...just magnified.The worse become worse and the good become better.How truly interesting.As if it will weed out the worthless from those with potential. In the grand scheme of things,I am here to observe and see whether these human organisms will remain machines or become something greater because it truly does fascinate me.Not as much as drawing does though .
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Post by egodiabolus on Feb 23, 2009 23:27:08 GMT -6
Considering the current economic crisis,let us say jobs are made once again and are not as scarce do to the efforts of this supposed government bail out,do you think people will ever consume needlessly as they did before this occurred? I think people will continue to consume needlessly, regardless of the economic state, until a major event changes the pardigm. The stimulus package is being advanced because the government does not want that event to occur. Like in nature, when one predator dies another springs up to take its place. The government just likes the advantages of keeping the current predators. That is a matter of personal choice. Will you heed the alarm or continue sleeping? The reason for the existence of our current society and the state it is in is simply that we have a large, surplus population. The number of individuals on the planet far exceed the number required to sustain that population. This means that communities where trades and skills are shared for the common good would leave too many people with nothing to do...there simply is not enough actual need. Thus, need must be generated artificially. We are given something we are told to desire to work for and then jobs manufacturing that whihc no one needs but everyone is told to desire. We neatly manufature the carrot on the stick we are being lead by. In my opinion, the programming runs too deep in most people. Without Wal-mart, McDonald's, and television, the surplus population will probably die out. If the fit-hits-the-shan, the smartest amongst the worker-consumers will need to get out of the cities, embrace in small communities for common welfare and defence against the criminal element, and hope that by the time current institutions find them and try to bring them back into the fold they have become self-sufficient enough to resist. You will see a new age. It will be better in some aspects, worse in others, like all ages. It will simply be different. You are making the current paradigm enforced value judgement that suggests drug-use and prostitution are bad. Drug use could be the new route to enlightenment and prostitution has been a valuable part of society (and the only option available to many boys and girls through their formative years) for more years than it has not. Sure, just like now and in the past, there will be people who use drugs and make poor decisions. Sure, like now and in the past, there will be people who are forced to fuck for a living who would rather be tattoo-artists. I just hope we will be more realistic about these "nasty" aspects of the human experience than we are today. I would prefer a little "reality" compared to the fairy-tale we have been sold on today. I think it will take a wicked heart to be a better person.
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Post by jmsn72 on Feb 24, 2009 14:35:55 GMT -6
You are making the current paradigm enforced value judgement that suggests drug-use and prostitution are bad. Drug use could be the new route to enlightenment and prostitution has been a valuable part of society (and the only option available to many boys and girls through their formative years) for more years than it has not. Sure, just like now and in the past, there will be people who use drugs and make poor decisions. Sure, like now and in the past, there will be people who are forced to fuck for a living who would rather be tattoo-artists. I just hope we will be more realistic about these "nasty" aspects of the human experience than we are today. I would prefer a little "reality" compared to the fairy-tale we have been sold on today. I never meant prostitution is bad.A woman who screws for money has my respect moreso than someone who just does as they are told. I meant "forced prostitution" .Forced implies the girls are being sold and forced to screw against their will seeing nothing in return.Their pimps just bang em and force em to screw ...or in other words they are raped and the pimps get all the money for it.They are being hurt for someone else's benefit,that kind of life they would have been better off dead.No possibility to awaken or progress can exist for them after that trauma.They can only withdraw and collapse inward...such is what that kinda trauma does. Media doesn't focus on it much at all but it can yield a decent profit for the pimps and their associates.I do consider forced prostitution bad.What you stated is true though,the media rather paint us a rosy picture than show us the true grim interior My only issue with drugs is what people do to get them.Most fiends lose control and resort to hurting others.It is my fault for not clarifying.A spliff or two never harmed anyone but a miserable person who becomes a fiend with no cash will do desperate things to keep the veins cloudy. I think it will take a wicked heart to be a better person. Excellently said.Mind if I use that as a quote sometime? (credited to you of course) Overall I think you are right.People probably wont and usually do not change.This explains why so few ever awaken,break free or make any progress in life outside of the delusion that consuming is progress.Self made hell they created I guess.
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Post by egodiabolus on Feb 24, 2009 18:01:07 GMT -6
I know this will be an ugly opinion. I am not condoning "forced" anything, merely acknowledging the realities of a world that has persons in positions of power relative to others; even if it is a large man or woman vs. a small boy or girl. The moral dilema we may face is that, in our pursuit of a more free, more chaotic "reality", we will see a greater increase in situations where strength is used to force others into subservience. Our Western sensibilities have trouble with this issue; it is a delicate and gossamer ideal that has been burned into our cores that such existences are abhorrent. I have been called out on my positions on execution as sacrifice being based on my Western, modern origins and not embracing the world-cultural reality. This is a case where the larger picture is obvious. Consider the Roman Empire; people were born into slavery. It was all they knew, all they could expect. Acceptional slaves might crave and eventually earn their freedom, but far more feared what freedom might mean. They were slaves (sexual or otherwise), but they had the benefit of the master's roof and the master's food and their master reminded them of their rightful place in the universe. Like it or not, in the world we are working toward, the people who exist NOW who are unwilling to awaken will become fodder for those with stronger wills, awakened or otherwise. Right now, one of the symptoms of our sleep state is the value we as Westerners place on human life. Our sense of entitlement has made every man a king and every woman a queen in their own minds and somehow unhampered by the will of others...a delusion that a more chaotic world would rip away like onion-paper. The new paradigm will result in a new morality where things we are not tolerant of now will become common-place; neither better or worse, merely different. Consider also this: in Western Society how much of what you do is not "forced"? Your employment options are limited, your social roles are limited, your means of structuring thought is limited. Every road your drive from point A to point B should be a reminder that your choices are not fully your own. A little wiggle room does not make one free.
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Post by jmsn72 on Feb 24, 2009 22:45:22 GMT -6
I know this will be an ugly opinion. I am not condoning "forced" anything, merely acknowledging the realities of a world that has persons in positions of power relative to others; even if it is a large man or woman vs. a small boy or girl. The moral dilema we may face is that, in our pursuit of a more free, more chaotic "reality", we will see a greater increase in situations where strength is used to force others into subservience. Our Western sensibilities have trouble with this issue; it is a delicate and gossamer ideal that has been burned into our cores that such existences are abhorrent. I have been called out on my positions on execution as sacrifice being based on my Western, modern origins and not embracing the world-cultural reality. This is a case where the larger picture is obvious. Consider the Roman Empire; people were born into slavery. It was all they knew, all they could expect. Acceptional slaves might crave and eventually earn their freedom, but far more feared what freedom might mean. They were slaves (sexual or otherwise), but they had the benefit of the master's roof and the master's food and their master reminded them of their rightful place in the universe. Like it or not, in the world we are working toward, the people who exist NOW who are unwilling to awaken will become fodder for those with stronger wills, awakened or otherwise. Right now, one of the symptoms of our sleep state is the value we as Westerners place on human life. Our sense of entitlement has made every man a king and every woman a queen in their own minds and somehow unhampered by the will of others...a delusion that a more chaotic world would rip away like onion-paper. The new paradigm will result in a new morality where things we are not tolerant of now will become common-place; neither better or worse, merely different. Consider also this: in Western Society how much of what you do is not "forced"? Your employment options are limited, your social roles are limited, your means of structuring thought is limited. Every road your drive from point A to point B should be a reminder that your choices are not fully your own. A little wiggle room does not make one free. This is true actually.I could not consider your opinion ugly but quite honest and true from a larger perspective. As people born in servitude and in a way a forced situation where we are controlled,how easy it is for us not to see issue with it.How easy for us to assume we are kings in a prison where there can be none. In fact it is a horrid and rude awakening but it is until we are raped,beaten or dominated in the physical sense that we realize how weak we are and how weak we have always been.Until we see our chains,we can nor realize we are slaves and until we are victims ,we can not realize what this reality truly demands of us;servitude ,sleep and suffering.Our options are indeed sadly finite,hell I admit I am not doing what I want and love myself,I am a prisoner as well sleep most moments struggling to find a way out.Admittedly it is easy to lose awareness of the shackles when things go well so I try to keep an eye on the world,it's grim enough to keep me focused on mankind's real position which is a grain of sand being swept away by a tidal wave at a beach. It sucks but its true ,the shock and terror of the intense pain is all that can even remotely jar us near even acute awareness of where we really are.Those born into that kind of world,its as commonplace for them as an ipod is for us in our spoiled reality.Those placed into it gain a crude and real awakening; humanity is not your friend,you are not special in anyway and a majority of the world is a prison running on the pain of others. In all honesty it does sadden me that it takes such extremes but such is life,how it always was and always will be.Mankind is not capable of truly accessing or knowing his condition on a large scale.It is a pleasure nonetheless reading your responses.The level of thought and awareness your responses show is very impressive.
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