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Post by jmsn on Sept 3, 2008 22:47:44 GMT -6
I was wondering, after the few years I toyed around with magick,is it easy to become mentally derailed or unstable as a result?
How can one use the practice of magick to build up a stability or perhaps alleviate an extreme anxiety disorder?Is it possible ,or is it true that if you fuck with certain forces you reach a point of no return?
I speak to you as a guy suffering from anxiety and who has suffered from it most of my life.I find at some point I messed and dealt with things that should have been scary but weren't at the moment.However once I stopped practice altogether,an extremely large and irrational amount of fear for the occult,demons and spirits in general popped up?Was this destined due to my unwillingness to emphasize protection?
How can a person use magick and forces of the occult to bounce back?Lets say maybe I wanna be where I was when I practiced magick.Fearless,not stricken by anxiety...how do I return to that?Is there a way to reinforce my mental health that has deteriorated over the years using ritual or magick?
I dunno what Im searching for with this thread so I will generalize it.Lets say we in the occult community have our own definition for mentally stable that is far different from that of society;given.How does a magick sorcery fanatic maintain a level that is healthy in terms of mental stability?
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Post by astennoth on Sept 4, 2008 3:02:38 GMT -6
Well first off we need to know what type of magick you were practicing... I know for a fact that using Necronomic spells leads to one form of insanity or another. During your time of magick use, you probably didn't use the protections and banishings given in some grimoires. I don't know for certain if there is a way to stabilize a mental disorder after the onset. You probably need to ask someone more knowledgeable than I about thing like this. But at least I gave my two cents worth
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Post by jmsn on Sept 4, 2008 6:23:36 GMT -6
I messed around with goetia a lil,no protective circles or banishings.Also experimented with learning to see and detect spirits.Made more than a few rogue and forgotten servitors that failed.Played around with Crolwley's Lam as well.Spirit wise I found methods to be able to have them do things and forge communication with them.Most of this I was in a Chaos Magic paradigm which allows for more free form things.
Things went sour when I was messing around with the concept of communicating with extra-terrestrials,specifically the greys and the reptoids...the later group of which I found myself in an almost manic state for several months after.
After a while I stopped seeing things I was able to and communication with anything ceased and my ability to feel fearful and anxiety increased bigtime.
Still these days Im affraid to sleep because my brain feels like its being ridden by other things.But I have noo paradigm now..Scientifically its impossible.Medically my brain is good according to neurologist.Psychologists couldn't even answer what it is....Come on science gimme a damn answer lol..I dunno where im going with this.Is there a magick technique to be able to sleep better?1-2 hours a day isn't cutting it.
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Sept 4, 2008 14:51:50 GMT -6
Getting such little sleep can acctually lead to insanity.. auditory and visual hullucinations are pretty common. I heard after 48 hours of sleep deprivation you are clinicaly insane.. you can embrace the madness.. you might "see" things from another perspective.. but I would try to find a way to sleep.. even if you gotta take or drink some herbal sleep aid, or go to the doc and get a sleep pill. I had insomnia once.. I couldnt sleep because my brain was always tirelessly going over information I recieved throughout the day, and I would try to predict what tomorrow would bring, etc..If that is the problem, try meditating.. that seemed to help me.. that way I wouldnt be MEDITATING while I was trying to sleep!
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Post by youma on Sept 5, 2008 5:06:19 GMT -6
ES beat me to it. I wanted to say meditating too. The sleep deprivation problem is an urgent one and should be assessed first, be it through lifestyle changes or medicine. After you are in a relatively stable condition and are ready to go on with your spiritual research, try focusing on yourself before reaching out to occult entities. Find your weaknesses; it's not having a weak spot that makes one vulnerable, but to ignore it and leave it exposed. Become conscious of the doubt and self-destructive tendencies that may attack you from inside while you protect yourself from outside attacks later. Meditation, chakra stuff, whatever approach suits you better, explore your own soul a little.
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Post by jmsn on Sept 5, 2008 6:32:30 GMT -6
Tried to meditate ...things got scary because I felt like weird vibrations in the bed and whatnot.Then the darkness became kinda scary.Managed an hour though.I think 1-2 hours can suffice.Its bothered me since I was 15 and just vanished at some point.Then it came back,this time a year its at its worse.
I theorised something silly,that it may have to deal with the fact theres a crescent moon out.Dont laugh but this became its worse i think around Sunday.I know Tue-Thursday there was a crescent moon out in the night sky.I know it sounds silly and has nothing to do with it but until these people stop giving me the runaround because of my insurance ( Medicaid).Is there an entity symbolized by the moon.
I am very scarred to call on an entity or entities for help because I think it might be them or any that will freaking leave me brain scorched in a dumpster somewhere with no recognition how I got there.I use a nihilistic paradigm but there still some things Im scared to go back to.All that stuff I did being much of what Im running from.
Imma try to meditate again when I go to get sleep tonight.I might be able to get maybe 3 hours if I try and then things will be normal again.
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Sept 5, 2008 9:14:27 GMT -6
I messed around with goetia a lil,no protective circles or banishings. Another important thing.. when you did the conjurations, did you use the traditional god names and threaten the Daemons? Without a circle.. hell.. even WITH a circle.. that pisses them off and automatically makes them not like you too much. I see things from a daemonolator's point of view. Michael Ford's "Luciferian Goetia" tells some techniques where you summon in the name of Lucifer and various other "boss" demons, and you do it respectfully. Know that they are something that is NOT to be feared. They are wise and helpful, exist in all of our minds, but also outside. I guess maybe an apology to every Daemon you worked with might even help.. make a Cairn (A pile/tower of stones. Big on bottom.. gets smaller as it goes up) or some alter out in the woods or something.. Take that Daemon's seal, set it on the rocks or alter, and leave food offerings and stuff.. THAT might work. I see things from a Shamanic and Chaot (Chaoist?)point of view as well. I believe most gods started in this manner.. and like an Egregore/Gollum/Servitor, thoughtforms and emotion feed them, and have fed them to epic proportions. I think Goetic being are either of the category of: Spirits who through worship gained godhood, ascended wise men, or servitors that someone let live for FAR to long. Just remember.. with some research, you will see that they were almost always ALL ancient gods that were worshiped with great respect some time in the past. Although most of their religions are "dead", they still view themselves as gods.
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Madguten
Moderator
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Post by Madguten on Sept 5, 2008 10:43:42 GMT -6
I just wanted to pop in and say that;
Even at the point of no return, we can always venture onwards,
Yesterday does not matter. Only the now.
If we want to escape we must carry ourselves out of the troubles.
Plus
Sleep, food, mental and physical satisfaction is needed in one form or the other if we are to please our inner beasts touchy and fragile feelings sometimes. If we dont, we feel like shit.
I DO believe that it is possible to see god without going completely mad, but perhaps that is just my grandest self illusion.
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Sept 6, 2008 9:29:26 GMT -6
I just wanted to pop in and say that; Even at the point of no return, we can always venture onwards, Yesterday does not matter. Only the now. If we want to escape we must carry ourselves out of the troubles. Plus Sleep, food, mental and physical satisfaction is needed in one form or the other if we are to please our inner beasts touchy and fragile feelings sometimes. If we dont, we feel like shit. I DO believe that it is possible to see god without going completely mad, but perhaps that is just my grandest self illusion. Good point! I guess you can also use the alternate perspective you get from insanity as a gift too.. might turn into a hell of an artist, or story writer. I must tell you all that i'm off my rocker, and it's not all that bad!
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Post by jmsn on Sept 6, 2008 21:26:45 GMT -6
The art part is great.However when I am going somewhere ,in a sleepy haze,I feel like breaking down into tears.Rationally I find ways to turn it into anger knowing I am not the type to lash out and knowing I have more control when angry than most people. Perhaps lack of consistent sleep is causing these moodswings terminating in a desire to become a walking weeping willow.
I never threatened the demons with god names.In fact I allowed them in casually.I askeed them for whatever help ,achieving gnosis on the seal while vizualizing the form with an assortment of visual artifact...(mainly printups of associated things because I am in an anti-magick-anit-ritual home)It worked because I was able to see them in altered states extremely clearly and did not have to go through to much effort to seek their aid again.
However,this problem started before I started magick 8 yrs ago..I was 15.
I recently tried meditating and it kinda worked.Whenever I knew I was losing control of my mind,I decided to vizualize my back as 3 snakes .Kept up the visualization until I was sound asleep.This advice was awesome and helped me get sleep last night.
The positive thing out of this is now I am forced to work on magickal skills I abandoned 3 years ago when I quit doing magick (ironically when this came back as a problem).I guess magick techniques are the only remedy for now...How ironic!Least I can up some skills that may be helpful a lil bit.
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Sept 6, 2008 23:09:25 GMT -6
Why DID you quit anyways? And you MIGHT acctually be bipolar or just the lack of sleep is making it seem that way. But it runs in my family, and they experience the same kind of symptoms.. expecially that sleepy haze part.. when going through depression stages, you feel unenergetic and like crap in general, frusterating you, making you angry and hateful.. then in the manic phase your brain is going nuts, running with thought after thought, and I have known some people to go 4 days without sleep in that stage.. but it will flipflop.. and it is a chemical embalance, so it's not something you can "snap out of".. you can LEARN to deal with it to a point, however. But I suggest some meds and counciling to learn copeing skills.. try to figure out the feeling you get in the depression stage, and try to cut it BEFORE it gets that far.. you may be depressed and feeling like poo, but at least you wont lash out at anyone, or yourself..
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Post by jmsn on Sept 7, 2008 4:19:58 GMT -6
I quit because I lost interest in the physical world or things that happen.There was a skill I needed to sharpen which is drawing.Im not as bad as I was or as good as I wanna be but as long as I have a pencil in hand,I have all I need.
All negative feelings,etc go away when I put the pencil to the page and turn on some music.It becomes my world and what I want it to be.I am god at that moment.It's a high and meditative feeling no magick or no form of meditation has been able to provide.All I ever wanted was to express my vast imagination,now that I have that,even when I am unhappy I have a reason to go on and something to look forward to.Art is the fruits of my past rituals,I never knew it until now.
Don't care for going out to socialize,dont need magick for that.Don't need it for wealth or other things either,I can do fine with something mediocre.Don't need it to surf the cosmos or learn secrets from demons or angels because my imagination is far more interesting than the astral journeys or wierd encounters I have had(although they helped gimme something to add to my imagination).I have no interest in gods or entities anymore either.As far as I am concerned they care no more for me as I care for them.I stepped out because I did not need it.
In it's absence I had time to learn what I enjoy and makes me tick.Made more sense than trying to hex someone when I get pissed and then getting suicidal because the hex failed.(Turbulent past...I was weird back then)
As for the bipolar thing...its possible.Im due to get tests that will determine this stuff soon.
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Sept 7, 2008 10:52:12 GMT -6
I quit because I lost interest in the physical world or things that happen.There was a skill I needed to sharpen which is drawing.Im not as bad as I was or as good as I wanna be but as long as I have a pencil in hand,I have all I need. All negative feelings,etc go away when I put the pencil to the page and turn on some music.It becomes my world and what I want it to be.I am god at that moment.It's a high and meditative feeling no magick or no form of meditation has been able to provide.All I ever wanted was to express my vast imagination,now that I have that,even when I am unhappy I have a reason to go on and something to look forward to.Art is the fruits of my past rituals,I never knew it until now. Don't care for going out to socialize,dont need magick for that.Don't need it for wealth or other things either,I can do fine with something mediocre.Don't need it to surf the cosmos or learn secrets from demons or angels because my imagination is far more interesting than the astral journeys or wierd encounters I have had(although they helped gimme something to add to my imagination).I have no interest in gods or entities anymore either.As far as I am concerned they care no more for me as I care for them.I stepped out because I did not need it. In it's absence I had time to learn what I enjoy and makes me tick.Made more sense than trying to hex someone when I get pissed and then getting suicidal because the hex failed.(Turbulent past...I was weird back then) As for the bipolar thing...its possible.Im due to get tests that will determine this stuff soon. Obsession is something that everyone is in danger of. That is why alot of people Keep their normal life, their day side, away from magick, and then create a new name, maybe cultivate a new personality, one where you KNOW you are god, one that is very egotistical, and knwing that whatever you will, will happen! They call it their nightside, and devote THAT part to all magickal workings. That is why alot of magick users, all the way from LHPers to RHPers often choose magickal names.. PLUS you dont want some entities (expecially humans) to know your real name anyways. People can use it against you just like they can a photo or a piece of clothing.
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Post by jmsn on Sept 7, 2008 13:54:19 GMT -6
I had an obsessive persona and started having people use my magickal name as mystreet name.I am aware of my flaws ,thats kinda why I put it down.I was slipping to nightside even in my regular skin.
Maybe I'll consider getting back into it.I doubt I'll have a problem seperating the two this time.Since I am aware of my obsessions,such awareness is the first step to combat it!
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Sept 8, 2008 11:14:55 GMT -6
I had an obsessive persona and started having people use my magickal name as mystreet name.I am aware of my flaws ,thats kinda why I put it down.I was slipping to nightside even in my regular skin. Maybe I'll consider getting back into it.I doubt I'll have a problem seperating the two this time.Since I am aware of my obsessions,such awareness is the first step to combat it! Yes it is! EVERYTHING is a learning experiance.. you can either learn and move on, or be crippled and fail.
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Post by Logos on Sept 9, 2008 0:36:46 GMT -6
The LHP is the way of the Alien; unnatural and foreign to mundane life. As a result of this quality the LHP is a dangerous and difficult one, and so many magicians can quickly find themselves in precarious situations with but a small mistake. The LHP will show a person many things that are hard to accept and even harder to internalize, so if you can't stand the fire don't cook with gas.
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Post by jmsn on Sept 9, 2008 4:57:57 GMT -6
Hehe funny one,especially considering I don't mess with the stuff anymore.What need have a nihilist of any path?
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Sept 9, 2008 9:59:32 GMT -6
Hehe funny one,especially considering I don't mess with the stuff anymore.What need have a nihilist of any path? Well.. LHP and RHP really isnt so much about Light and Dark, good and evil.. RHP is more about becomming ONE with a god that you serve, placing your faith in that ONE god.. LHP, while you can follow gods, your goal is to become LIKE a God, not merge with it and be its servent for eternity. Following a god is not the same as worshipping, as it is like a student in martial arts learning from a master.. Certain forms of Budhism can acctually be considered Left-Handed, as well as certain forms of Heathenism.
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Post by Logos on Sept 9, 2008 17:16:11 GMT -6
Hehe funny one,especially considering I don't mess with the stuff anymore.What need have a nihilist of any path? I speak from no nihilistic perspective. There are inherent dangers along the LHP and was not meant for everyone. This is why the RHP is useful for us on the LHP, as the natural man would degrade and dilute the knowledge of the Alien through his\her very nature if everyone were to walk the LHP. As eldrichscorpius pointed out, concepts of Light and Dark don't really fit the two paths of Hands like cookie cutters. But, the way I like to think of it is as so: the RHP is contained to concepts like "Good" and "Evil", whereas the LHP is Beyond those concepts for said concepts are man's creations and not creations of the Outsider.
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Post by jmsn on Sept 9, 2008 20:06:02 GMT -6
Rhp,Lhp are the same thing..just different approach.I acknowledge nothing greater than I...I never acknowledged any god as anything more than personal amusement for the psyche. Both are useless in that you bow and grovel before some unknown as if were the truth.Despite the approaches,Chrisitanity,Satanism,Hinduism,Buddhism, all the same shit.Worth nothing more than stepping on a pile of ants.
I don;t mean to crap on your ideals by any means..Ebrace what you will but if you hadn't realized you were looking up to something else either way,you're blind. I don't see Cthulhu,Satan or Jehovah,or Yahweh or Kristna or Buddha above me...They are nothing more than illusions based on unexplainables and half facts if not fairy tales.
I have taken this stance from the beginning...even growing up in a Christian hose.Religions paradigms were nothing more than a joke for me...I laugh at them!It is because of my belief the fuckers exist to begin with...so who really is god?And they could not prevent a bullet from taking my life so how much value do such fictional beings have?
Looking for something greater than yourself as if it will help you?What a pipe dream.And lets say there was something greater...why the hell should it give two shits about you?If there is something greater and you worship it or whatever...whos to say it wouldn't care and just stomp you out or torture you anyhow?That is assuming a soul exist and there are things of such power.
I've always known this...Gods or mere tricksters?Whos to say whats a god isn't some bored fuck in another realm with nothing better to do?
RHP,LHP...I'd be more productive bitting my fingernails till they're gone.Seriously...you people honestly deep in your hearts believce half of what you do?
Dont get me wrong,I believe in magic and spiritual entities but I am not bowing my head to shit!As far as I am concerned,if it has more power than me...it is my enemy because it is a threat to my meaningless existence.
I doubt a mere game with some unfortunate pricks known as demons could have any effect.I was gone long before then!
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Sept 9, 2008 23:32:26 GMT -6
Rhp,Lhp are the same thing..just different approach.I acknowledge nothing greater than I...I never acknowledged any god as anything more than personal amusement for the psyche. Both are useless in that you bow and grovel before some unknown as if were the truth.Despite the approaches,Chrisitanity,Satanism,Hinduism,Buddhism, all the same shit.Worth nothing more than stepping on a pile of ants. I don;t mean to crap on your ideals by any means..Ebrace what you will but if you hadn't realized you were looking up to something else either way,you're blind. I don't see Cthulhu,Satan or Jehovah,or Yahweh or Kristna or Buddha above me...They are nothing more than illusions based on unexplainables and half facts if not fairy tales. I have taken this stance from the beginning...even growing up in a Christian hose.Religions paradigms were nothing more than a joke for me...I laugh at them!It is because of my belief the fuckers exist to begin with...so who really is god?And they could not prevent a bullet from taking my life so how much value do such fictional beings have? Looking for something greater than yourself as if it will help you?What a pipe dream.And lets say there was something greater...why the hell should it give two shits about you?If there is something greater and you worship it or whatever...whos to say it wouldn't care and just stomp you out or torture you anyhow?That is assuming a soul exist and there are things of such power. I've always known this...Gods or mere tricksters?Whos to say whats a god isn't some bored fuck in another realm with nothing better to do? RHP,LHP...I'd be more productive bitting my fingernails till they're gone.Seriously...you people honestly deep in your hearts believce half of what you do? Dont get me wrong,I believe in magic and spiritual entities but I am not bowing my head to shit!As far as I am concerned,if it has more power than me...it is my enemy because it is a threat to my meaningless existence. I doubt a mere game with some unfortunate pricks known as demons could have any effect.I was gone long before then! Your view is still LHP.. just not the same as mine.. yours is closer to LaVeyan Satanism, where you are your own God, the rest are all in your head, you only get one life, so have fun while you can etc. My wife acctually is pretty close to your beliefs.. she doesnt believe in Gods, but does believe in spirits, and she hates all religion, thinking it is a method of control.
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Post by jmsn on Sept 10, 2008 14:19:23 GMT -6
I dunno if your aware of this but you keep making it on the 32 minute.Either it was deliberate or you got some kinda luck...Just felt I should mention it being the whole 23 synchronicity amazes me and no doubt 32 is involved as well!
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Sept 13, 2008 22:31:34 GMT -6
I dunno if your aware of this but you keep making it on the 32 minute.Either it was deliberate or you got some kinda luck...Just felt I should mention it being the whole 23 synchronicity amazes me and no doubt 32 is involved as well! Nope.. just blind luck!
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Post by Lord Void Bharam'ka on Sept 21, 2008 4:31:31 GMT -6
I was wondering, after the few years I toyed around with magick,is it easy to become mentally derailed or unstable as a result? How can one use the practice of magick to build up a stability or perhaps alleviate an extreme anxiety disorder?Is it possible ,or is it true that if you fuck with certain forces you reach a point of no return? I speak to you as a guy suffering from anxiety and who has suffered from it most of my life.I find at some point I messed and dealt with things that should have been scary but weren't at the moment.However once I stopped practice altogether,an extremely large and irrational amount of fear for the occult,demons and spirits in general popped up?Was this destined due to my unwillingness to emphasize protection? How can a person use magick and forces of the occult to bounce back?Lets say maybe I wanna be where I was when I practiced magick.Fearless,not stricken by anxiety...how do I return to that?Is there a way to reinforce my mental health that has deteriorated over the years using ritual or magick? I dunno what Im searching for with this thread so I will generalize it.Lets say we in the occult community have our own definition for mentally stable that is far different from that of society;given.How does a magick sorcery fanatic maintain a level that is healthy in terms of mental stability? I haven't read the replies to this yet... But I will give ya' what I got right now. First of all... I HAVE GONE OFF THE DEEP END And it's been quite a few times. And yes, you could say that I'm mentally Fucked-Off from my Experiences. (As an example: For me Reality is less Tangible so to speak. Schodingers Cat and Shit) And yes for me this is Permanent. But this isn't to say that you are or will. But it's always a possibility. Plus, what's your definition of Insane? The things you do Ritually that affect you Mentally. The key is to learn to walk the line between Sanity and Insanity without falling into the Deep End when you aren't ready or can't handle it. But sometimes it just happens and you are kinda fucked. As for your anxiety you can harness it as a tool, or you can let it fuck you over and then you'll become what you fear. One time when I went too far, I ended up suffering from Anxiety and Agoraphobia... basically I went Cabin Fever. And it's because I let myself get the better of me. But yeah, I'm still learning how to walk the line so to speak.
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Madguten
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Woe, to he who hears the howling
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Post by Madguten on Sept 21, 2008 4:44:47 GMT -6
Ia! Well said.
I can nod in recognition when i read this
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Sept 21, 2008 10:46:28 GMT -6
Well said!
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Post by Lord Void Bharam'ka on Sept 21, 2008 14:29:25 GMT -6
Thanks EldritchScorpius & Madguten ;D
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