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Post by jasmine on Apr 15, 2008 10:08:26 GMT -6
I have been studying magic for years. I think its been appx 25 years or so. Over this time I have learned many varied magical systems. I have researched tradtional british withcraft, shamanism, ceremonial traditions, modern wicca, satanism, and many many more.
Now that I have completed my crossing I have noticed that it all seems moot to me now. All the different systems seem no more than elaborate codes written over the basic energy forces at hand.
Magic is all about energy. Expanding or contracting. Now when I look at spell books or grimoires all I see is "code" and within it the essence is merely energy.
We place the meaning for us personally in the creation of ritual. Is is really needed?
I personally think that ritual or spells are there in order to get our minds to jump the barrier of disbelief or to substitute for not being able to see the energy yet.
More and more....magic all seems the same. The differences are merely created within our own subjective universes.
Fun questions can arise out of this....is there such a thing as good or evil? Not really, it all comes back to energy and what you choose to do with it. Ethics exist within us. Not without.
So this is what I have been thinking about lately. I don't know if I managed to express it in a fashion that makes sense. But.....I like exisiting within this sea of energy and its is interesting to observe its reactions to my manipulations....no more and no less.
any thoughts?
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Post by baphomet on Apr 15, 2008 15:47:54 GMT -6
Odd because the more and more I looked at books and grimoires, I saw magic as being more and more of a sort of based off mind as opposed to "energy"
"Energy" is such a vague term when it comes to magic. You can say energy makes magic work, but then again, energy also makes lights go on, cars move, and cows go move. And if you want my opinion, I think it is actually the laws of magic that control energy, not the other way around.
Also, a lot of old grimoires do not mention any "energy" exercises, though I'm sure you can find them in there... but there's no way to prove this isn't "projection", that is, simply seeing what you want to see based on the paradigm you hold. In other words, one could look in an old grimoire and say "hmmm these motions mean they were obviously trying to manipulate energy" while another occultists could say "no way, those motions prove they were trying to trigger certain states of mind via psychological triggers."
My opinion on "magical energy" is based on how cultures percieve self, and how this imagined perception then creates corresponding sensations. In other words, sensation is culturally defined A PRODUCT OF THE HUMAN MIND. This, in my opinion, is why certain chakra systems have more or less "energy points" and why other systems do not agree on the number of planes of existence in the astral body - these systems of "energy" are maps.
Now does this mean they're "not real" or "untrue"? Of course not, as mentioned before, sensation is a cultural thing, and interpretted in context, so it doesn't matter if you believe in 5 or 7 chakras as long as you're getting valid results.
I've always sought an explanation for how magic works... we all do... but I'm pretty sure all of us occultists will be doomed to continue to reworking those theories until reality is torn apart... of course scientists are still looking for a unified field theory, so I would expect it's magical equivalent to be just as hard to find (though probably staring us in the face)...
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Post by docdr on Apr 21, 2008 5:34:30 GMT -6
There is no "good" or "evil".
What is evil may be good and what is good may be evil. there is you and a whole mess of schemes: ethics, morals, views, and perception.
What is evil is good and vice versa because good is evil and evil is good. there is purity because all things are a singularity.
There is no differences in duality only similarity in comparison but the comparison is just made up and doesnt exist and it is nothing.
Dualism is only this and that. but what really makes this this and that that are differences of perception.
Differences of perception are just comparisons in contrast in the lens of perception.
Your perception shouldn't exist in my opinion because it complicates the mess.
When your perception is clear it is a whole new world free from you. when in reality it is not a new world it is the same old world which you have hid from yourself.
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Post by nyarlathotep2008 on May 5, 2008 8:42:47 GMT -6
I would have to say that is true but you still need to accept it before you can change it.
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Post by saxo on May 5, 2008 15:04:07 GMT -6
There is no "good" or "evil". What is evil may be good and what is good may be evil. there is you and a whole mess of schemes: ethics, morals, views, and perception. What is evil is good and vice versa because good is evil and evil is good. there is purity because all things are a singularity. There is no differences in duality only similarity in comparison but the comparison is just made up and doesnt exist and it is nothing. Dualism is only this and that. but what really makes this this and that that are differences of perception. Differences of perception are just comparisons in contrast in the lens of perception. Your perception shouldn't exist in my opinion because it complicates the mess. When your perception is clear it is a whole new world free from you. when in reality it is not a new world it is the same old world which you have hid from yourself. U You're vry right man! The "evil" is a thing created by the society. Evil and good are the same thing that is called HUMAN WILL
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Post by docdr on May 16, 2008 17:12:55 GMT -6
^^^ I am glad you two see it too!
And of course you have to accept anything to change it. The acceptance is a stage of recognition.
IA KUTULU!
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Post by tar0uk on May 17, 2008 7:02:07 GMT -6
I would say the energy is the attribution involved for example I often laugh at people who profess such things as proficiency in mirror magick without any active training of imagination or those of mind control that cannot restrict themselves to sit sielently for 10 minutes....
Essentially i would say energy is an ambiguous though relatively simple term to describe the measure of the current and work you put into your occult endeavours and then the reflected fruits of your labours
my regards
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Post by saxo on Jun 24, 2008 9:39:08 GMT -6
OO Monster Kill... Anyway...I keep wit docdr.
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Post by jasmine on Jun 26, 2008 13:40:14 GMT -6
I agree with all of your observations on the usage of the word "energy" being vague in my previous statement. I used that term as a generality because the members of this site are in varied states of their magical education. Energetic current and probability threads would be more accurate. Magic is all about identifying the correct energetic current that will affect the subjective universe that the magus exists within and then create an effect on the objective universe that all interact with. It is also the science (yes science) of correctly identifying the probability threads in the matrix we exist within and "tweaking" or "adjusting" them to create the outcomes that we desire. I find it interesting that we create so much ritualistic activities around such a simple concept. All systems of magic come down to these two acts. Adjusting energetic currents and probability threads. I guess it does not matter how we do it...it just matters that we do do it. As far as good and evil goes....they don't exist. It is indeed all layers and layers of perceptions. Ethics exist within, not without. agh... I am still not getting to where I want to go with this. I will try later. Jaz.
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Post by m2alik on Jul 28, 2008 16:44:07 GMT -6
;DI think I understand where your coming from. Yes it is a matrix and Energy but you meant a sea of Energy. As of Sea of Energy I can tap into too. As of Manipulation use your imagination. Their is no limits. Tell me if I finally gotyour idea or not.
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Aug 5, 2008 19:52:39 GMT -6
For me, magick is based on having a strong will and imagination/visualization skills. I usually visualize a goal, sigilize it, fire and forget it!
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Post by mari66 on Aug 16, 2008 13:41:28 GMT -6
I have been studying magic for years. I think its been appx 25 years or so. Over this time I have learned many varied magical systems. I have researched tradtional british withcraft, shamanism, ceremonial traditions, modern wicca, satanism, and many many more. Now that I have completed my crossing I have noticed that it all seems moot to me now. All the different systems seem no more than elaborate codes written over the basic energy forces at hand. Magic is all about energy. Expanding or contracting. Now when I look at spell books or grimoires all I see is "code" and within it the essence is merely energy. We place the meaning for us personally in the creation of ritual. Is is really needed? I personally think that ritual or spells are there in order to get our minds to jump the barrier of disbelief or to substitute for not being able to see the energy yet. More and more....magic all seems the same. The differences are merely created within our own subjective universes. Fun questions can arise out of this....is there such a thing as good or evil? Not really, it all comes back to energy and what you choose to do with it. Ethics exist within us. Not without. So this is what I have been thinking about lately. I don't know if I managed to express it in a fashion that makes sense. But.....I like exisiting within this sea of energy and its is interesting to observe its reactions to my manipulations....no more and no less. any thoughts? I understand what you are saying here, Jasmine. A few years ago, i came to the same conclusion that Magick was all a neutral form of energy like electricity. Its neither good nor evil, it just IS. Its up to the Mage/Witch to decide how to channel this energy into their own mind,which is the conductor for such energy. The Cone of Power ceremony is a fine example of how traditional Witches raised power into themselves.
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Post by Lord Void Bharam'ka on Aug 16, 2008 14:27:52 GMT -6
I like to look at magick as water... And all belief systems that utilize it are like different flavors of Kool-Aid... (Satanism=Strawberry, CoC=Lime, Wicca=Grape, ect.)
So it comes down to personal taste.
I also agree that magick is all about energy "work and manipulation." Combine that with visualization skills, single-pointed focus, and your own flavor... and BAM!!!
Hail Chaos...
I think most of the Creeds about Magick is just a way do dictate morality. As probably stated already, there is only knowledge and how you choose to use that knowledge is another story.
Most people are still in the "black vs. white" thinking, "good vs. bad." It's because of people like this that we need rules and laws ect. They haven't realized that there is a BIG, BIG fucking grey area in between.
But yeah a dictation of morality, and also it's a chance to show off their "Good Guy" Badges.... It give them an opportunity to be Holier than Thou, Whiter than White and all that shit...
Well, I with that I gonna go puke now.... Fuckin' preachy white-lighters...
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