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Post by Deadly Disease on Oct 10, 2007 10:05:33 GMT -6
Greetings everyone, Ever since i have been acquinted with the occult arts I KNEW THIS. I knew that the occult arts are not for everyone; just like not everyone can be a highly paid lawyer, or a marathon runner, or a singer in a heavy metal band, a mathematician or have a phd. The list goes on and on. So i've been thinking lately, what are the requirements in order to succeed in the occult world DESPITE how diligent you approach the magickal systems? What i mean by that is no matter how diligent ( and how hard) a man with low intelligence tries to comprehend a magikal philosophy he probably won't fully absorb it as well as an astute student of the arts. So again, what ARE the requirements? 1) Gift/natural talent. What i mean by this is that magick is not a science, it is an art. Having said that, you need some form of talent in order to achieve success in the occult arts. Just as chess or soccer or computer engineering, or WRITING you need to have a natural desposition for the art in order to be good at it so to speak. In short, it needs to be your destiny. 2) Intelligence. You NEED to have ATLEAST an average intelligence to be competent enough to absorb all those thousands of books and theories on complex matters with complicated language, metaphors and hidden and obscure meanings. 3) A strong memory. Without a strong memory how could you possibly remember ( and digest) all those facts and theories and statements written by those who have written books on occult related subjects? Not just that, but how will you be able to build on your vocabulary ( which is quite important I think since it will help the magickian tremendously when it comes to studying those books ) without a strong memory? Not just that, but a strong memory will undoubtedly help the magickian memorize the conjurations/rituals etc as well. Make a post below showing whether you have all of these ( or not) and how it has impacted your magickal lifestyle. Comments , criticism welcome.
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 10, 2007 10:32:41 GMT -6
personally, i think great things can be achieved in magic and occultism if that's what one desires.
people may be genetically predisposed towards math or public speaking or art, but performing sorcery is another matter because no two sorcerers are alike. there are different forms of magic that can be applied many different ways. this means a sigil mage can be just as competent as a ceremonial mage; alternate roads to the same destination.
if you have the Will to be a great magician, then you shall be.
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by Deadly Disease on Oct 10, 2007 11:01:23 GMT -6
personally, i think great things can be achieved in magic and occultism if that's what one desires.
if you have the Will to be a great magician, then you shall be.
Desire and passion is not enough. There are limitations in this world, like it or not. There is such a thing called talent and genius. Magick is a perfect example: for some it works really well and strikes a deep chord in them and resonates well. For others, NO MATTER HOW LARGE THEIR DESIRE IS it wont work. It just wont no matter how hard they try. Not everyone will be good at their passions no matter how hard they try. The above three points I made are important factors that play a part in whether or not the occult world is a man's destiny.
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 10, 2007 12:02:34 GMT -6
i must disagree, but would be interested in hearing other perspectives...
anyone else have a viewpoint on this topic?
VS
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Post by Deadly Disease on Oct 10, 2007 12:35:55 GMT -6
i must disagree, but would be interested in hearing other perspectives...
anyone else have a viewpoint on this topic?
VS I'd be interested in other people's viewpoints as well. I hope to see this thread grow.
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Post by eratciv on Oct 10, 2007 14:09:59 GMT -6
I believe that like any other subject the occult does require hard work and diligence but that really doesn't make up for not having a talent for it. so I guess I agree with Alexodeus.
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Madguten
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Post by Madguten on Oct 10, 2007 14:46:14 GMT -6
I am of the mind that nothing is certain in this field. I agree however that most people working with this share many qualities, but i do also believe that all kinds of people all over the world are using this, regardless of similarities, but i really cant say for certain, its mere speculation on my part.
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Post by Yevathik on Oct 10, 2007 16:38:56 GMT -6
For others, NO MATTER HOW LARGE THEIR DESIRE IS it wont work. It just wont no matter how hard they try. Not everyone will be good at their passions no matter how hard they try. I guess. But that's like the absolute worst-case scenario. You will find very few who don't have even a little piece of the void in them.
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Madguten
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Post by Madguten on Oct 10, 2007 16:43:10 GMT -6
Yes, also everything can change, Kings can become peasants and vice versa. I believe that even a sheep can turn wolf overnight.
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Post by amnesiac on Oct 11, 2007 1:04:45 GMT -6
Interesting notion there, Madguten
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Oct 11, 2007 4:21:16 GMT -6
If some one has the passion for it, and the means to do it then the rest will follow.
shail
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Post by huscarle on Oct 11, 2007 4:51:32 GMT -6
I'd say you need
An enquiring, open mind.
A passion for discovering new experiences.
A skeptical viewpoint forming opinions based upon one's own experience rather than taking what others say for granted.
A strong belief in oneself that you can effect change in events.
You definately need to remain grounded- hubris is a constant threat as is losing yourself from "reality". Magick can be very addictive and become an excuse for personal inaction or you end up seeing omens everywhere taking far too much significance from unimportant events or simply random acts.
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Post by jasmine on Oct 12, 2007 10:31:34 GMT -6
I do not believe in a genetic predisposition for magical ablity. If we are, until we start conscious evolution of self essentially the mental sum of everything that has happened to us. Then I would have to say that if one is lucky enough to be exposed to radical or unusual ways of thinking/percieving while developing thier "adult personality" then they might be ahead of the game so to speak, when they hit the magical board. I do believe that without a strong, almost obsessive desire to enact ones Will upon the universe that you will fail to do so. I agree with huscarle on all above points and most emphatically with the idea of "magical addiction". I also believe that of all the things mentioned in the thread above...that Will is most important, otherwise we all simply slide beneath the waves and lull ourselves back to sleep. Neat thread.
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Post by eldritchentity0 on Nov 27, 2007 11:25:41 GMT -6
I happen to disagree with Alexodeus to a certain point
Limitations exist because you believe in it or that is what you been taught that is a very fixed set for your "reality." And on one hand I thought magic(or magick for some people) was changing something with your Will, and by your will,the Will of the True Self. There is a talent for learning things and we are born with it, and everyone has the ability to learn, just like we can learn a certain thing because its in our drive to do so,our Will.So Ability,passion or desire,will,intent are all key compotents to learning the Dark Arts.
Yes there are some people who cant get what they want when they do magic or sorcery and its because maybe in their unconscious they still hold onto limitations,not making effort to provide the foundation for the magic to manifest(like for example you secretly hate someone and never told them so you decide to curse them, after you done that, and you run into that person you should set the foundation by telling them how mucch you hate them or tell them you wish them harm or so and so,then that will be lingering in their conscious setting the stage for the curse to manifest) or still believe its never gonna change or what not or they are not free from the the many "I"s.Its no wonder why its important to start Awakening,Self Remembering,because when you do and you have something you really want without limitations or in illusions,then you shall achieve your desires.
I do think that anything is possible.
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Post by jasmine on Nov 27, 2007 12:12:17 GMT -6
I do think that anything is possible. Ha! You hit the nail right on the head. I have seen people so asleep that I was certain that they would never get it. One of those so called sleepy people are now on the way to being a Druid Priestess. No that is not the path I would choose. But this is someone who was certain she could not do magic and well....now she does in spades! I think belief in yourself and being conscious is all that is really required. That and lots and lots of magical etherical elbow grease. Magic takes work and I believe that many people like the idea but not the actual work involved. If you don't work it you don't get results. So once again I am reiterating that ANYONE can learn magic. Some just arrive on the playing field a little more prepared than some....I look at it from a gamers perspective. When you roll your character....the dice don't always smile on you....sometimes though, you will get such amazing starting rolls that your character is pretty buffed out right out of the box.....its the same in the magical world. Its a random roll as to what you will have when you burst out of the box/womb. Its up to you to do the rest.
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Post by eldritchentity0 on Nov 27, 2007 12:46:13 GMT -6
Jasmine, I happen to agree with you on the very fact that people do like the idea of magic but are too lazy to do any actual work.I have been down that road before,I still have my downfalls,it seems rather the only limitations that I have is when I believe in the limitations and not doing anything about it,not setting the foundation.The magic that seems to work the most of all is when I am Self Aware in doing a magical ritual and have broken the belief barriers.
Using your natural ability or talent of learning, can be used for anything,that is our gift to develop the talent of manipulating energy,to develop a strong memory,or development of intelligence or improving it.The talent of learning to use to become Self Aware,etc. endless possibilities. As far as belief and being conscious in training yourself in the Dark Arts or someone else training you, I agree,that is a very important part of becoming a Sorcerer.Because you ..you personally allow the change,you truely do the initiation,because of your strong desire for change within yourself.
It just so happens there is a lot of stupidity in this world and can not be tolerated by the magician/sorcerer. There is the ignorance kind of stupidity and there is the other kind of stupidity of KNOWING something but turing a blind eye to it.
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Madguten
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Post by Madguten on Nov 27, 2007 17:13:26 GMT -6
Well said, it is so true.
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Post by jasmine on Nov 27, 2007 17:40:07 GMT -6
Jasmine, I still have my downfalls,it seems rather the only limitations that I have is when I believe in the limitations and not doing anything about it,not setting the foundation. One of my favourite quotes is from a book called Illusions: the adventures of a reluctant messiah written by Richard Bach "argue for your limitations and sure enough they are yours" Once again you hit the nail right on the head!!!
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Post by Yahn'ikthorn on Dec 12, 2007 14:45:55 GMT -6
I don't really have anything to add because I am so inexperienced in this field and haven't really ingested all that has entered my head within the past week...
But, if anyone here has read Books of Magic by Neil Gaiman... I would guess it can't work that well for you if you're unable to honestly answer YES to the question "Do you believe in magic?"
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