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Post by Areion Osprek'ar on Oct 7, 2007 13:11:39 GMT -6
Here is the challenge.
Categorize the Old Gods and/or Ancient Ones into their proper elements. For example, this is what Venger had to say at a guess.
Cthulhu - fire
Yog Sothoth - air
Shub Niggurath, Tsathogguoa - earth
Nyarlathotep, Tsalal - water
I would agree with this to a point. However I would put Cthulhu as water for the simple fact of how he is associated with water so much and puts me in mind of Leviathan. I look forward to hearing what others have to say on this matter. But I add an extra challenge to this. Not only categorize them, give a basic description of each god and the reasons why you feel they represent said element.
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Post by Yevathik on Oct 7, 2007 13:53:40 GMT -6
Dagon'd be water.
Really though, do they need to be categorized?
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Post by Areion Osprek'ar on Oct 7, 2007 15:44:40 GMT -6
Yes and no. This challenge is set forth as an exercise that serves a two fold purpose. One of which is to make everyone think. That is to say, if you had to categorize them, how would you do so? The other is simply to satisfy my curiosity. ;D And why do you feel Dagon deserves water as compared to Nyarlathotep or Cthulhu?
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Oct 7, 2007 17:01:38 GMT -6
i would say hypertheticaly that, cthulhu is water and yog-sothoth is deffinatly air.
but yevathiks right they don't need to be catagorised.
shail
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Post by eratciv on Oct 7, 2007 20:34:40 GMT -6
guessing, Tsalal - fire Yog Sothoth, Nyarlathotep - air Shub Niggurath, Tsathogguoa - earth Dagon, Cthulhu- water this is a vertualy impossible task because the way I see it the Old Ones are associated with whatever element they want to be at any given moment.
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Post by huscarle on Oct 9, 2007 5:36:39 GMT -6
As I've already posted I don't believe that the Old Ones fit well with the elements and I also don't work with the elements so am pretty unaware of the methodology. It's an interesting challenge though and I have time to spare so here goes. I shall try to apply the accepted traits of the elements rather than go for the obvious- if anything this probably promotes the unsuitability of the Old Ones for elemental magicks IMO.. SHUB-NIGGURATH -Water. Given Her connections to druids, witches and other Lunar based cults I feel there is a definate link with Water. She is perhaps one of the most active of the Old Ones- in that She seems to take notice of Her summons and accept sacrifices. Water beings are very feeling and sensitive- just like the Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young in her mothering aspect NYARLATHOTEP- Air. He is everywhere going about his business. Like many Air beings He is energetic and quick to apply his energies in diverse ways, very accepting of new ideas. and very intellectual. Good at seeing both sides of an arguement and twisting views to His own. AZATHOTH- Void. Self explainatary. CTHULHU- Earth. Earthy people react quietly and slowly. They apply themselves with endurance. Emotionally they are deeply rooted and slow to change. Nuff sed!
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Madguten
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Post by Madguten on Oct 9, 2007 7:24:19 GMT -6
Very interesting words. Thanks for posting.
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Post by luxcthonis on Oct 9, 2007 11:31:36 GMT -6
Shub-Niggurath= Earth; North; Yog-Sothoth & Azathoth= Fire; South; Xastur= Air; East Cthulhu= Water; West Within the above picture, if you can imagine it as a gate, you will notice that the entities (the A:O) correspond one to another quite well thusly structured. On each side you can see the entities displayed in succesive archetypes, Absu being the archetype of Xastur, who is in turn the archetype of Nyarlathotep. This only makes sense if these deities relate to the element of Air. On the left, or West, side we see that Tiamat begat Cthulhu, and Cthulhu begat Dagon, and Dagon, we know, begat the Deep Ones. My diagram, and theory of how the A:O relate to which element, is founded upon the text of Frater Tenebrous. Lvx to all, -H.
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Post by Areion Osprek'ar on Oct 9, 2007 13:19:20 GMT -6
I see where that's going. Excellent work H'smack'li Most appreciated.
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Post by Yevathik on Oct 9, 2007 22:48:31 GMT -6
There's also supposed to be an old chinese belief that certain elements cannot exist above others. From lowest to highest I think it goes Earth, water, fire, air.
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Post by huscarle on Oct 10, 2007 4:01:21 GMT -6
There's also supposed to be an old chinese belief that certain elements cannot exist above others. From lowest to highest I think it goes Earth, water, fire, air. Yeah. I've just had a look in some Taoist book I have and it states that the Five Element doctrine work in a combination of Yin and Yang so each element is a manifestation of one of the bipolar qualities. Wood is "young Yang", Fire "great Yang, Metal "young Yin", Water "great Yin" (try saying all that after a few ales!). Earth is described as the element of "central harmony" (another CTHULHU connection?). I don't really subscribe to those particular Chinese element theories though as I feel it has flaws. Surely Wood is a product of Earth and Water and Metal is a product of Earth and Fire or simply Earth. If I was to go with a elemental model it would be Earth, Water, Air, Fire and Void as I feel they cover all the areas. The Earth, Water, Air and Fire meanings are obvious as the base elements and can be mixed in different ways to cater for other forms of matter, etc. Void has the capacity to cover everything else which falls outside of these- Spirit, Magick, Thought, etc.
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