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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Jul 17, 2012 22:10:00 GMT -6
I spoke with Dagon yesterday and he advised me that even though I cannot seem to remember my dreams, that isn't the only way I communicate with my subconscious. He told me that my reflexes and reactions are an indication of what has been ingrained into me and that they can provide a venue for understanding myself. This perplexes me and I'd love elaboration!
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Jul 18, 2012 6:33:29 GMT -6
I personally have always found my intuition and I guess, in a sense, precognitive reactions to be at their best when I just let them flow. I think this might come back to the idea that psychic abilities work best when they're not caught up in the trappings of the ego consciousness. It has always seemed to me that the less one tries in some regards the easier it is. Obviously one must know what course they are to be taking before hand, but after that it usually comes down to the ebb and flow. Thoughts?
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Jul 18, 2012 12:12:40 GMT -6
So you're insinuating that it's not just the training that has been drilled into me from an early age (my combat awareness), but rather my own intuition that I should be trying to connect with? Makes sense and when I dwell on it, it's been there the whole time! Ubermensch is inevitable!
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Post by shawnhartnell on Jul 18, 2012 16:59:39 GMT -6
I once lived in a place where there was a closet sticking out of the wall just in front of the toilet. It was jutting out of the wall into my 'personal space', so whenever I peed, I leaned away from it.
Imagine my surprise when I later learned that peeing required leaning to the side.
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Jul 21, 2012 21:44:04 GMT -6
I normally sit down, but enough about my transvestism! Anyway, I'm pretty sure he was referring to programming and the tools therein. I mean, when I dwell on it, I've been trained to act and react in certain ways and when I take control of that, I take control of my life!
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Post by shawnhartnell on Jul 22, 2012 10:37:48 GMT -6
Anyway, I'm pretty sure he was referring to programming and the tools therein. Yes, and life is a monkey poking at the keyboard.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Jul 22, 2012 11:31:44 GMT -6
Another way to say it is that life is a blacksmith that pounds us into the shape it wants.
And it's not your life that you want to take control of...
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Post by Ankor on Jul 24, 2012 13:08:25 GMT -6
That's like controlling ones emotions, which is central to controlling ones life. But reflexes are a bit different. How can you control a part of the brain which is subconscious?
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Post by I AM the Way on Jul 24, 2012 17:33:59 GMT -6
. How can you control a part of the brain which is subconscious? Exalt! This is what I call a higher question. It gets to the root of our human condition. How indeed?
A man can begin (make progress towards) controlling subconscious parts of his brain by making the subconscious conscious, bringing his hidden machinery into the light. When we can properly see our mechanical components, then we can make changes. Not before. Without the light of consciousness, nothing is possible.
Awake!
VS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Jul 24, 2012 17:58:31 GMT -6
That's like controlling ones emotions, which is central to controlling ones life. But reflexes are a bit different. How can you control a part of the brain which is subconscious? The question isn't one of controlling the subconscious. It's a question of resisting that which resists consciousness.
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Post by sin on Jul 25, 2012 14:05:51 GMT -6
That's like controlling ones emotions, which is central to controlling ones life. But reflexes are a bit different. How can you control a part of the brain which is subconscious? The question isn't one of controlling the subconscious. It's a question of resisting that which resists consciousness.
EXALT.
This is the key. If you are not 'aware' of what your mechanical self is doing, but especially when it reacts, you are resisting the conscious part of you that seizes control; and puts this fractalization of will back in line and under the control of the conscious will.
Some people call this screaming will 'gut'. Initial responses from the gut are often ignored, then later you learn your 'gut feeling' was right, and you end up kicking yourself in the ass for not listening to it.
Not to say that 'gut' is always correct. It can, and often will lead to internal considering, a form of identification that focuses on oneself. The man that can self-remember, is not up against resistance of the self.
The challenge then, is the Work on self-remembering.
CS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Aug 3, 2012 7:07:11 GMT -6
Another way to think about this is to think of yourself as unconscious right now, that your life is a dream that takes place inside of your subconscious. Uncovering the unreality of reality is a way of discovering the subconscious, as awakening to the dream is the first awakening.
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Aug 4, 2012 20:31:45 GMT -6
@ Shawn: Well that makes a lot of sense! Of course, an easier way to reach those "cogs within the machine" is through deep trance work and working towards getting in touch with what has already been established there! I'm starting to understand that by observing myself carefully and how I act and react to certain stimuli, I better understand what components of myself have been built and thus am able to rewrite my programming" should I deem it necessary! "I'm not sure I like what I did back there? For the future, I should probably do this..." etc. etc...
Right now, I'm in the "prototype phase" you might say and am rewriting my programming while playing video games! "No I'm thinking instead of suppression fire, a flanking maneuver might be warranted in these cases?"
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Post by shawnhartnell on Aug 5, 2012 23:04:18 GMT -6
I laugh and play flute at you!
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Post by sin on Aug 6, 2012 8:57:43 GMT -6
How can you re-write a program, while you are involved in the programming of video games?
I've never been an avid 'gamer' but in observing my son and his behavior, I think there is a mechanical being at work. It would be like being in the film the Matrix, and talking to the architect.
Maybe the question you should be asking yourself, is how can become the anomaly, in a seemingly precise mathematical equation that creates the veil of the Matrix.
CS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Aug 6, 2012 16:20:57 GMT -6
How can you re-write a program, while you are involved in the programming of video games?
Game programmers use a debugger which has as a feature the ability to set conditional break-stops which stop the execution of the program whenever a certain condition is met. This allows the programmer look at the code which was running whenever a break-stop was triggered. Setting useful break-stops is the responsibility of the programmer.
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Post by I AM the Way on Aug 6, 2012 16:42:36 GMT -6
This is turning into a great thread...
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Aug 6, 2012 16:50:00 GMT -6
How can you re-write a program, while you are involved in the programming of video games?
Game programmers use a debugger which has as a feature the ability to set conditional break-stops which stop the execution of the program whenever a certain condition is met. This allows the programmer look at the code which was running whenever a break-stop was triggered. Setting useful break-stops is the responsibility of the programmer.
I follow, but doesn't the debugger only target one program? And how do you compensate for many programs running at once?
Programming = mechanical self Programming = game being played
That would mean you need multiple debuggers, and chasing down the algorithmic patterns of each program running, to include any subset programs.
Back to the Matrix...
In my minds-eye, it would be much like what the architect describes when talking with Neo. He mentions, the 5 previous versions of Neo making the same journey, but this time he learns a bit quicker that it's about choice. He has to make a choice, and one of conscious will, vs. his mechanical nature to try to understand the algorithms in the Matrix. So in other words, his conscious will would be that debugger...Yes?
CS
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Aug 6, 2012 17:04:12 GMT -6
True! As his conscious would indeed have to be the one catching the "glitch" in order to repair the anomaly. The real X factor therein was Agent Smith who was able to "go rogue" and attempt to stop Neo for he knew that Neo was the key to unraveling the program so that people may be free and for obvious reasons, doing so would be contrary to his survival! Meanwhile, The Matrix had self preservation in it's interests as well, even though it certainly should've been aware that by Neo's time, The One would continue to appear until it eventually succeeded... Meaning the Matrix should've been aware of it's own mortality by that point!
Regardless, Shawn is right when he stated that by actually viewing the program in play, one is able to make changes and alterations to that program so that new facets can be explored! (I'm assuming that was his insinuation.)
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Post by shawnhartnell on Aug 7, 2012 1:45:12 GMT -6
Game programmers use a debugger which has as a feature the ability to set conditional break-stops which stop the execution of the program whenever a certain condition is met. This allows the programmer look at the code which was running whenever a break-stop was triggered. Setting useful break-stops is the responsibility of the programmer.
I follow, but doesn't the debugger only target one program? And how do you compensate for many programs running at once?
Programming = mechanical self Programming = game being played
That would mean you need multiple debuggers, and chasing down the algorithmic patterns of each program running, to include any subset programs.
...
So in other words, his conscious will would be that debugger...Yes
CS All there ever is is one program. However, a program is always made up of smaller parts. There is an issue of scope (scale) in that information is stored globally (accessible by all the parts) or local (parts can't access each other's information unless an interface is built.)
The debugger is purely a mechanical thing. It checks for a condition and stops the execution of the program. A condition would be something like "If X is greater than 100", or "If I'm starting to lose my temper..."
Only the programmer is conscious. It takes a conscious programmer set up a break-point in the debugger and look at the state of the system and the code that was running after the break-point is triggered.
From the song:
"Tyres down on your bicicle -- Your nose feels like an icicle -- The yellow fingered smoky girl Is looking up to me."
Translation: these are break-points to be set.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Aug 7, 2012 1:52:50 GMT -6
True! As his conscious would indeed have to be the one catching the "glitch" in order to repair the anomaly. The real X factor therein was Agent Smith who was able to "go rogue" and attempt to stop Neo for he knew that Neo was the key to unraveling the program so that people may be free and for obvious reasons, doing so would be contrary to his survival! Meanwhile, The Matrix had self preservation in it's interests as well, even though it certainly should've been aware that by Neo's time, The One would continue to appear until it eventually succeeded... Meaning the Matrix should've been aware of it's own mortality by that point! Regardless, Shawn is right when he stated that by actually viewing the program in play, one is able to make changes and alterations to that program so that new facets can be explored! (I'm assuming that was his insinuation.) A debugger is used to catch a glitch that known to exist. The break-points are set up to catch the glitch in action. So you have to know a glitch exists, or you're just monkeywrenching, not debugging.
The X factor you describe is called "inner separation" in the Fourth Way. One part does have to break apart and "go rogue" to observe the operation of the other parts.
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Post by sin on Aug 7, 2012 5:38:35 GMT -6
I follow, but doesn't the debugger only target one program? And how do you compensate for many programs running at once?
Programming = mechanical self Programming = game being played
That would mean you need multiple debuggers, and chasing down the algorithmic patterns of each program running, to include any subset programs.
...
So in other words, his conscious will would be that debugger...Yes
CS All there ever is is one program. However, a program is always made up of smaller parts. There is an issue of scope (scale) in that information is stored globally (accessible by all the parts) or local (parts can't access each other's information unless an interface is built.)
The debugger is purely a mechanical thing. It checks for a condition and stops the execution of the program. A condition would be something like "If X is greater than 100", or "If I'm starting to lose my temper..."
Only the programmer is conscious. It takes a conscious programmer set up a break-point in the debugger and look at the state of the system and the code that was running after the break-point is triggered.
From the song:
"Tyres down on your bicicle -- Your nose feels like an icicle -- The yellow fingered smoky girl Is looking up to me."
Translation: these are break-points to be set.
In lieu of the context, I disagree that there is one program running, and wouldn't this affirm my original thought? To become the anomaly in an equation?
CS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Aug 7, 2012 11:08:56 GMT -6
I say Whip It! Whip it good!
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Post by sin on Aug 7, 2012 12:20:42 GMT -6
Devo Lyrics:
Crack that whip Give the past a slip Step on a crack Break your momma's back
When a problem comes along You must whip it Before the cream sets out too long You must whip it When something's goin' wrong You must whip it
Now whip it Into shape Shape it up Get straight Go forward Move ahead Try to detect it It's not too late To whip it Whip it good
When a good time turns around You must whip it You will never live it down Unless you whip it No one gets away Until they whip it
I say whip it Whip it good I say whip it Whip it good
Crack that whip Give the past a slip Step on a crack Break your momma's back
When a problem comes along You must whip it Before the cream sets out too long You must whip it When something's goin' wrong You must whip it
Now whip it Into shape Shape it up Get straight Go forward Move ahead Try to detect it It's not too late To whip it Into shape Shape it up Get straight Go forward Move ahead Try to detect it It's not too late To whip it Well, whip it good
In other words, yeah... Don't be automated. Don't get trapped in the mechancial being of programming. Become the anomaly. Even debuggers need to be whipped into shape???
CS
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Post by sin on Aug 7, 2012 12:26:14 GMT -6
True! As his conscious would indeed have to be the one catching the "glitch" in order to repair the anomaly. The real X factor therein was Agent Smith who was able to "go rogue" and attempt to stop Neo for he knew that Neo was the key to unraveling the program so that people may be free and for obvious reasons, doing so would be contrary to his survival! Meanwhile, The Matrix had self preservation in it's interests as well, even though it certainly should've been aware that by Neo's time, The One would continue to appear until it eventually succeeded... Meaning the Matrix should've been aware of it's own mortality by that point! Regardless, Shawn is right when he stated that by actually viewing the program in play, one is able to make changes and alterations to that program so that new facets can be explored! (I'm assuming that was his insinuation.)
Sure, Agent Smith went 'rogue' for a time, but was eventually destroyed by the machine city (main program), when NEO pointed out how problematic Smith was in the grand scheme of the survival of the Matrix. Neo had the ability to see through the programming, and use the programming to his advantage.
In the end, the Matrix is revealed and will be on a decline, and has its mortality rate.
Even the debugger seems to need a kick in the pants.
I guess that's where my thoughts are on this.
So you are running a program = you
And playing a game = yet another program
How then, do you see a way through both the program and the debugger if both aren't exactly helping you reach your goals?
Seems like a matrix within a matrix, just adding more mortar to the bricks in the memeplexi.
I'll see your Devo and raise you Pink Floyd
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Post by shawnhartnell on Aug 7, 2012 17:36:12 GMT -6
I think we're unnecessarily confusing each other.
debugger trigger example for panic attacks
if panic = true then consciousness = true
You know, like working it into muscle memory?
devo says:
if a problem = comes along then you = whip it
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Post by shawnhartnell on Aug 8, 2012 10:08:04 GMT -6
I'm going to have to respectfully remove myself from this thread because I'm not good at the language being used. Cain, CS speaks the language you are trying to use, so forget what I said and listen to her.
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Post by sin on Aug 8, 2012 11:04:40 GMT -6
I think we're unnecessarily confusing each other.
debugger trigger example for panic attacks
if panic = true then consciousness = true
You know, like working it into muscle memory?
devo says:
if a problem = comes along then you = whip it
Perhaps its the allegories being used? I generally use the Matrix film (among a few others) because its the easiest to relate to, and understand the modeling. I can use others if it would help?
I think the main issue here, is if you are in crisis...It's usually too late. It doesn't mean you can't make a quick recovery.
One of the most profound observations of Gurdjieff by his colleagues was that he was prolific at employing these mechanisms that he became such a fascination to them to begin with.
Example, If Gurdjieff assigned a task like digging a hole with a shovel, this exercise served a couple of purposes:
1. He could observe his students to see if they understood what he was teaching.
2. His students were given opportunity to employ the teachings to test what they were made of.
If his students were obviously missing the mark, Gurdjieff would demonstrate, even with something as mundane as digging a hole with a shovel.
He never broke a sweat. He seemed to be enjoying what he was doing. He could dig a hole with little effort, quickly and to the specified parameters.
It's among the reasons he was considered to be a 'super man'.
Back to the context...
If you are in a state of panic, you've missed the mark. It doesn't mean you can't learn from this and Work at it constantly to achieve the desired result. In the future, you may not be prone to panic.
Does that make sense?
CS
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Post by sin on Aug 8, 2012 11:10:55 GMT -6
I'm going to have to respectfully remove myself from this thread because I'm not good at the language being used. Cain, CS speaks the language you are trying to use, so forget what I said and listen to her. Awe, don't leave Shawn. This is a good thread!
CS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Aug 8, 2012 12:37:00 GMT -6
The strange thing about this is, I'm using YOUR example.
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