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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 10, 2012 10:16:25 GMT -6
Some are good, some are really good, and some are less than good. Do you have any favorites?
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Apr 10, 2012 10:34:59 GMT -6
I can't say I agree with all of them, hence my reasoning for starting this thread, more Yogsothery and less moral right.
I have colorized my favorites.
I thought we could use it for a basis of creating our own, even if only personal affirmations for cultists.
What say you?
CS
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2012 10:55:41 GMT -6
Some are good, some are really good, and some are less than good. VS
Indeed ; more specifically :
My favorite is N°66 ; I will not give for nothing what is legally considered as mine, but from an esoteric point of view I came to the same conclusion. Apart from my mind, nothing is mine.
I don't like N°67; that's not serving the one who ask. By my experience of life, I recommend to apply N°74 Can someone explain me why N°62 ? Applying N°20 and 54, should we stay alone all our life, or renounce to sex ?
(edit : Priestess, there are two colors, but what is the color of your favorites ?? )
Now is the moment of Awakening
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Post by marth3456 on Apr 12, 2012 7:24:52 GMT -6
I'm not a fan of any dogma, creed, or commandments. People should make their own rules and find their own path in life. If anything they should be called Suggestions. They show how to conduct yourself. Its not mandatory or if you break it bad things will happen but good ways to go by.
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 12, 2012 10:53:34 GMT -6
Have to agree with Marth3456 on this one. As tempting as it is to codify what we believe are the most important aspects of our religion, we must also be mindful of subjective esoteric liquidity. Guidelines and suggestions are more fruitful than commandments.
Awake!
VS
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Post by InfernalOctave on Apr 12, 2012 19:06:40 GMT -6
I do not have a favorite here, they are all so good I could not choose.
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Apr 12, 2012 20:39:48 GMT -6
I think having some set of commandments is far to limiting on individual freedom. However it is important to choose a set of rules to live by or a creed to hold yourself up to. Buddhist monks consider the oaths taken to be important as the continued adherence is considered to generate merit. Which is to say that simply by having made the conscious choice to make continued efforts one is making progress. Creating a set of rules for cultists to all adhere to just eliminates the potential for growth a person has. If a person is given the freedom to choose for themselves what creed they must uphold they're afforded a chance to develop true will. More power is afforded to the individual whom can decide for them self what is they must do. A personal creed acts as a wave break against the tidal oceans of influence. As the waters within the cove of consciousness can seldom be calmed the wave break must be strong enough not to be washed away by the incoming tides and the internal surge of ones own waters. If a person is given a wave breaker then they're not going to notice so readily when it starts to corrode. However when the individual has them selves meticulously placed each stone against the surging tides, both internal and external, then one can truly make calm waters.
I hope the point wasn't lost in metaphor.
Ia Ia Cthulhu fhtagn
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 13, 2012 10:00:45 GMT -6
Yes, I think what you were getting at is that it's better to follow the spirit of the Work rather than the letter. I did get a bit lost in your metaphor, but not too much.
Here's another example... yesterday I went to a cookout for lunch. They had burgers, brats, and all kinds of soda. Ideally, it would have been better to stick to a certain amount of calories, satisfying my hunger without going overboard. Well into my 8 hour feeding window, I had two double burgers and two brats. This no doubt went a bit over my calorie allotment for that meal. I probably could have had a can of mountain dew instead of the brats or one of the double patty burgers. In total, with the mountain dew and less food, the number of calories would have been less. However, extra protein is always better for you than a sugary, high fructose corn syrup soda like mountain dew... especially considering its addictive properties.
Therefore, I behaved in a more correct manner (by my standards) with eating more meat and going over my calorie allowance than eating under my calorie allowance but indulging in something less substantive. I stuck to the spirit of my diet or nutritional lifestyle instead of the letter. Of course, one can account for the benefits of extra protein just as one can create a commandment with various protocols and sub-protocols, the intricacies of which might resemble a labyrinth when finished.
Those who worry about adhering to commandments might not put much thought into why a certain rule is worth following. Their focus would be on following rules instead of attention put to distilling their subjective esoteric liquidity. All in all, guidelines and suggestions are probably better than fixed rules. I appreciate everyone's feedback.
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Apr 13, 2012 12:23:41 GMT -6
It wasn't meant to be actual 'commandments', more of a guideline for those who want some sort of personal affirmation structure. 'Suggestions' even.
CS
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Post by Shaz'rahjeem on Apr 13, 2012 18:44:14 GMT -6
Yes, I think what you were getting at is that it's better to follow the spirit of the Work rather than the letter. I did get a bit lost in your metaphor, but not too much.
Here's another example... yesterday I went to a cookout for lunch. They had burgers, brats, and all kinds of soda. Ideally, it would have been better to stick to a certain amount of calories, satisfying my hunger without going overboard. Well into my 8 hour feeding window, I had two double burgers and two brats. VS
Hehe, I don't know what brats are in America, but in Australia it's slang for a young child. You canninbal
But yes that is pretty much what I was getting at. In the metaphor the ocean is perceived reality and ones own consciousness is a small part of that ocean. Normally a person is left at the mercy of the surrounding waters. As they swell up so do the waters of the individuals consciousness making it hard to do or achieve anything. However a good wave break creates a cove of calm water that can buffeted by the oceans swell. The wave break is a set of rules, a set of good habits and clear understanding of why those habits are necessary.
In this example one could say that Christians are given a wave break with the commandments, however its week and unsupported. Further more when it is breached rather then rebuild it they just ask for forgiveness and then leave it. What we should do and pretty much all ready do, is give people not only a wave break but the knowledge to build and rebuild there own as they see fit.
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Post by sin on Apr 14, 2012 9:45:29 GMT -6
Boy, talk about attachment to baggage. I did say 'our own', as in personal ideals we each old. For contrast and comparison, for discussion. I wasn't throwing them down to construct actual cult commandments. If they don't appeal to your pallet, fine, tell me why. What does each of the statements communicate to you?
How does it relate to other teachings by G.I. Gurdjieff?
It was for intellectual discussion, not slavery...To clarify.
CS
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Post by I AM the Way on Apr 14, 2012 13:22:51 GMT -6
Boy, talk about attachment to baggage. I did say 'our own', as in personal ideals we each old. For contrast and comparison, for discussion. I wasn't throwing them down to construct actual cult commandments. If they don't appeal to your pallet, fine, tell me why. What does each of the statements communicate to you?
How does it relate to other teachings by G.I. Gurdjieff?
It was for intellectual discussion, not slavery...To clarify.
CS Chillax, CS. There was a tangent discussion which grew out of the original post. I was mainly responding to that, as did others. Like I said earlier, there are some worthwhile "commandments" in that list.Brat as in Bratwurst. It's different than a spoiled brat. Hahaha.Awake!
VS
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Post by whatsupable on Oct 4, 2012 14:47:21 GMT -6
those are my personal favorites: 3. Whatever you are doing, do it as well as possible
13. Make work plans and accomplish them
58. When you realize you have said something that is mistaken, do not persist in error through pride; instead, immediately retract it.
59. Never defend your old ideas simply because you are the one who expressed them
63. Justify yourself to no one, and keep your own counsel.
65. Never speak of yourself without considering that you might change.
this are the ones that jumped out for me, there are other good ones to but those i like best.
i would like to know why you chose this one:
16. If you lack faith, pretend to have it
71. Wherever you live, always find a space that you devote to the sacred
at this moment i don't have a real written guide or rulebook of philosophical laws to live by. at the moment i know rather good about myself what "rules" in live and living whit others i wand but those are not set in stone but, vary a bit from time to time because of new thoughts and experiences.
that's why i think we should not hold onto rules, but make the rules as we go along. however a bit of a base would be a good starting point to go from. (hope this makes some sense)
When the stars are right
Drekth'Ak
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Post by shawnhartnell on Oct 5, 2012 9:19:37 GMT -6
I think they should be like the laws as given near the end of Liber A:O, things to keep in mind, observe, consider, and finally transcend.
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Post by sin on Oct 5, 2012 9:24:54 GMT -6
I think they should be like the laws as given near the end of Liber A:O, things to keep in mind, observe, consider, and finally transcend. ^ Gets it. Thank you.
CS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Oct 5, 2012 10:35:36 GMT -6
And this is a great list of things to use for that purpose. Thank you.
I think it's important to follow the 'suggestion' as closely as possible because the purpose isn't to regulate behavior, but to learn from the experience of following the 'suggestion'. One you've learned the lesson, the guideline has served it's purpose and is no longer required.
This is how I used the principles of Satanism. For example, indulgence without compulsion. It's not useful as a guide to behavior, but very useful for learning what one really wants and getting over the hangups that prevent one from going after what one wants, and also useful for distinguishing between what one really wants and what one thinks they should want.
Once someone gets to know their REAL desires, the principle isn't required, though it's useful to be reminded of it now and then.
So I know there's some debate about whether or not it's a 'commandment', I think it's best to follow it AS IF it were a commandment for the best results, otherwise it's possible to miss out on some great opportunities for intentional suffering.
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Oct 6, 2012 17:44:35 GMT -6
Ah but suggestions may also become limiting as well! While many of these are fantastic ideals to uphold, the fact of the matter is that they should be seen merely as guidelines... Also, one ideal I live by is that "rules were meant to be broken!" I don't follow any set creed, but rather mine tends to vary with each passing day. Instead ask yourself, "What is necessary and what defines this necessity?" Meanings and reasoning can go deeper than that upon examination!
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Post by shawnhartnell on Oct 7, 2012 9:34:45 GMT -6
They are supposed to be limiting, just in the same way a barbell limits your ability to raise your arm.
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Oct 7, 2012 10:12:30 GMT -6
I find those 82 commandments very useful to someone who is studying and learning the Work. However, I don't agree with a few of them. Most likely because I am not just a student of the Work but also a Luciferian and Cthulhu Cultists. I am also guilty of "breaking" almost every damn one of those at one time or another. Several of them a this moment. However, they are helpful and I'll keep them close. Perhaps reflect on each one and investigate its meaning and see how I could apply it to myself. I have no doubt that these wont do anything less than to help me understand the Work greater and improve myself.
I wouldn't mind some sort of official Cult commandments or guidelines. If anything they would help me to focus on my path during the moments I feel I am straying from it. Perhaps, as mention, like something at the end of Liber A:O. I may take it upon myself to come up with a few "commandments" of my own.
Here's one now: "Remember your place in the cosmos, within the vastness of black space."
or another: "Embrace the true meaning of life; that it is purposeless."
Just a couple of thoughts.
The Cult of Cthulhu shall never die!
Kai'Sigth
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Post by I AM the Way on Oct 7, 2012 14:05:42 GMT -6
They are supposed to be limiting, just in the same way a barbell limits your ability to raise your arm. That statement is revelatory, brother!
Ok, if everyone wants Cthulhu Cult commandments, then who am I to refuse? Bring your ideas to the table, and let's manifest this motherfucker!
Awake!
VS
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Post by sin on Oct 8, 2012 5:01:01 GMT -6
And this is a great list of things to use for that purpose. Thank you.
So I know there's some debate about whether or not it's a 'commandment', I think it's best to follow it AS IF it were a commandment for the best results, otherwise it's possible to miss out on some great opportunities for intentional suffering.
Even the semantics issue will make you flex your brain. Most things can be reduced to a concept model. At the end of the day, you should ask yourself:
What does it mean? How is it useful? What can I 'do' with it?
Willful suffering to achieve a goal. In your example, if you want to built muscle mass, you can use a dumbell. In this case, you can use axiomatic statements to contrast and compare to your own thinking and being.
CS
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Oct 8, 2012 16:30:40 GMT -6
Aah! Like in resistance training then? And so what then? Let's just say hypothetically that I have a goal which directly or indirectly contradicts one or more of the commandments. And yet at the same time, I must achieve this goal for whatever reason. Well then, should I simply break the commandment or would it perhaps be more productive to figure out some inventive way of circumventing the commandment(s)?
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