Objective Reality?

[egodiabolus]

The quick gist of the article "A Way of Life" is that the majority of us live in an enforced domestication as units of modern, "nuclear" families. Our separation into these small units makes us weaker an easier to manage than if we were divided into what we refer to as our "extended" family lines. The author of this lengthy article suggests that a return to a tribal mentality would best benefit those who are trying to create their own societies, such as the Cult of Cthulhu, where in all members were trained that they were a part of a greater whole, that their life is one of loyalty and honor when lived for the tribe, and that such tribes are encouraged by the ONA as a response to the social programming regime we currently endure.

I agree fully. Not with the stated concept of being a fascist, but with the idea that to be successful, we need to return to a greater social awareness and larger "triabal" obligations.

I would offer that life in the US was not always as it is now, the "nuclear" family is a relatively new concept. There was a time when most families lived on single plots of land with the extended family; parents, grand-parents, cousins, and the like working together and sharing resources for the good of the whole. As we shifted from an agricultural to an industrial society, the workforce was developed and managed into its modern state, making the whole less of a threat.

Mr. and Mrs. McCoy and their 2.5 children are easier to intimidate into obedience than the McCoy clan who's five generations live on land they have held for 2 centuries.

The article sets the standard, the re-establishment of the tribe, or rather the creation of the new tribe. What it does not express is how this is accomplished. Our Work requires that we develop within the current framework, and not in isolation. It is doubtful that most of the members of this forum could abandon society outright for tribe and land somewhere in Montana or where ever, even if they wanted to. So, if the tribal model is the ideal, how do we achieve it?

What the article does suggest is the importance of establishing this model in the minds of our children. With my own family, we have already decided that as our children get older they should not seek participation in the traditional workforce, remaining with us as long as possible while building up their own resources so that if they choose to leave the nest and fend entirely for themselves they will have an advantage over those who followed the social paradigm and went straight into work and debt. We want our children to do what they choose and not do whatever is offered by society to sustain themselves.

For those of us already mired in the system, the process of becoming more free is obviously a gradual one, but what shape does it take? It is easy to say that I am a member of the Cult of Cthulhu "tribe" ideologically, but what about politically and economically? I have long suggested a Satanists-supporting-Satanists economy as a way of helping free those involved from some of the impact of the social order. It is possible for households separated by distance to form a cohesive tribal interaction and identity, but most seem content remaining mired in the current system than making the effort to forge our own.

So, how do we, the Cult of Cthulhu, pursue this line of thinking, if it is a line of thinking and living we wish to pursue? How do we define the goal, and how is it accomplished? This is a question that every person who considers themselves a member of the Cult of Cthulhu should consider.

Awake!

Ego Diabolus
Priest of R'lyeh
Cult of Cthulhu

[egodiabolus]

Jun 21, 2010 19:35:57 GMT -6 @qzbah said:

Ego, that is the small problem we face... it is the Question of how do we teach "Western" people how to re-connect with that "tribal" way of life which they have lost. It's hard when one was born and raised a domesticated unit. Especially when such people see nothing wrong with their modality of life, or are not aware of what is "wrong."

Such a way for those close to their "indigenous" traditions such as Africans, Latin Americans, and most Asians already have clans. How do we get Europeans and Americans who have lost this old way of life to become aware of its importance again? This is a question I don't have an answer to. It would be interesting to see what you guys can make of it

P.S.; I meant "fascist" as in very intentionally organized and as a bundle of arrows bound together... rather then single individualized sticks

The point made in the argument for a return to a "tribal" mentality is simply that our current social paradigm recognizes strength in numbers and therefore seeks to discourage individuals united outside the predetermined social groups. Sub-societies never-the-less exist within the greater social order, a few in lock-step with all the modern ideas and conveniences our society has to offer. Tribalism does not mean trading the gains of our great society to join with the dwellers in mud-huts for the sake of some delusional spirituality.

How we achieve that kind of social organization for the Cult of Cthulhu is a matter for the Cult of Cthulhu to determine, but what it is not is the kind of tribal organization exemplified by the peoples of Latin America, Africa, or Cambodia. They represent the diametric opposite of the evolution and freedom we wish to achieve for ourselves. Their rigid and dogmatic adherence to tradition has kept them stagnant for generations, easily controlled by their superiors who know the use of a good rebel faction. Any society that frowns upon education and enlightenment in favor of tradition is a dead society. Drug wars, disease, shortened life-spans, illiteracy... this is not a model anyone should aspire to or a path to enlightenment. Our society is easily as culpable in seeking to control its masses, but it still produces individuals who have the presence of mind to enter a dialogue about alternatives. Your example suggests that such a dialogue would not exist.

Your fascism "I personally; based on my upbringings and Family; am a fascist. As long as I am alive, no off spring of mine will deviate an iota from our Culture and Tradition" is not merely "intentionally organized and as a bundle of arrows bound together", but rather a dead-end mentality allowing for easy manipulation by political powers who profit from the blood of people to ignorant to look up from their dogma. There is no honor in what you are preaching, only mediocrity, dependency, and death. There is a reason that the peoples of the clans and tribes you describe put down their spears and arrows and flock to this land to participate in this society, they crave and enjoy the freedoms their tribalistic dogma denies them in their homeland.

California is a long way from Cambodia, so it must be easy to think fondly of your homeland while disdaining the society you find yourself in. This is a common attitude amongst 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th generation immigrants who find themselves too privileged by the freedoms they enjoy in this society and too far from their ancestors who left their homeland in the first place. Clearly, though, some deviation from the tradition of your tribe must be tolerated, otherwise how would you find yourself here, attempting to feed the members of this forum offal and call it pudding?

Evolution is our mandate in the Cult of Cthulhu; evolution of self and evolution of our society. Looking to the examples of the past should not mean walking backward, but rather making something new from the old. If the new tribe we form finds itself mired by the "culture and tradition" you intend to foist upon your offspring, then we have lost our way entirely. I have no doubt the caliber of personage present at this forum have the presence of mind to see your examples as how to fail as a society, as opposed to how to succeed.

I would recommend applying the Work to your own life; observe yourself and your behaviors and see if your adherence to the traditions you espouse really is advancing your evolution. You have already stated in this thread that you have observed the contrary in the programming which allows you not to "deviate one iota from" your "culture and tradition". Hopefully, the tribalism described in the articles you are sighting as examples from the ONA include the foresight to allow for evolution that the societies you refer to lack.

Awake!

Ego Diabolus
Cult of Cthulhu
Priest of R'lyeh

[Apsara Kamalli]

Jun 21, 2010 21:17:27 GMT -6 @egodiabolus said:

Evolution is our mandate in the Cult of Cthulhu; evolution of self and evolution of our society. Looking to the examples of the past should not mean walking backward, but rather making something new from the old. If the new tribe we form finds itself mired by the "culture and tradition" you intend to foist upon your offspring, then we have lost our way entirely. I have no doubt the caliber of personage present at this forum have the presence of mind to see your examples as how to fail as a society, as opposed to how to succeed.

Ego Diabolus
Cult of Cthulhu
Priest of R'lyeh

[/b][/quote]

I'd like to expand on this a little more.

Dragging someone along, kicking and screaming against their will, is counter-productive to our evolution. Whether it's your neighbor, your children, or the guy three states over, you are creating a set of expectations for that person and their behavior that will only cause disappointment and resistance. The religion, or tribal mentality, at hand is merely just details. Looking to the past for examples is always a good idea, but force-feeding them to someone else rarely is.

In regards to parenting, as much as well all like to think that our child is "the best" or the "most talented," this is not always the case. We must come to the realization that most people are still asleep; this includes our children. It is our job as parents to present ideas, concepts, and choices to our children and provide them with the capability to survive in this society regardless of what path they follow. We can only hope that they will recognize all of the work we have already completed for them. Doing so with a fascist ideal will encourage rebellion. And you will be watching your children live their lives chasing "the Jones" and the "American Dream." From my perspective, I'd like to give my children more opportunity than that.

Reading through these posts, what you must recognize is that we are all here from different backgrounds, from the US Midwest to Texas to family ties in Cambodia. With these different backgrounds, we have all been faced with different life-altering decisions and cultural influences. However, here we all are. Right here in the same forum discussing the same topics. Different perspectives, of course, but with the same desire for self-observation, enlightenment, and the need for a social community of like-minded individuals. Now what?

While I am all-supportive of the encouragement to awaken through work and self-observation, I still can't help to think that the CoC has more to offer than these fine online debates. The key is how to make that happen. Much of my research on The Fourth Way philosophy has lead me to discussions about Fourth Way schools. Those discussions and research has lead me to articles discussing the cult-like society that "must" be applied in order for one pursuing the Fourth Way to be successful. While I realize the name of the organization includes the word "cult," I would have to assume that we are promoting the idea of de-programming rather than re-programming.

Which direction do we move next with this organization?

Awake!

AK

[I AM the Way]

Much of my research on The Fourth Way philosophy has lead me to discussions about Fourth Way schools. Those discussions and research has lead me to articles discussing the cult-like society that "must" be applied in order for one pursuing the Fourth Way to be successful.

Can you offer a couple examples?

While I realize the name of the organization includes the word "cult," I would have to assume that we are promoting the idea of de-programming rather than re-programming.

Say you had a computer and deprogramed it without putting anything new back in... what would you have? You'd have just the shell, merely the bare bones of a computer without any kind of planned action, wouldn't you? I believe that programing and deprograming must go hand in hand, otherwise we will never reach our goals.

Which direction do we move next with this organization?

I don't know about anyone else, but I propose we keep going in the same direction, just deeper. As long as we're on the subject, let's take a reading. What is everyone's navigational opinion? Keep in mind that any suggestion should be tied to at least one recognizable contribution within the Cult of Cthulhu. And I don't mean posting interesting views, compiling Necronomicon research, sharing artwork with the forum, making a cool video, or writing a CoC book review. There comes a point when armchair efforts just don't cut it. The time to make your decision for Christ, if you will, is right fucking now.

The Priests of R'lyeh and I are waiting. We've been standing out here in the parking lot for a good long while and now we're tired of standing. Pretty soon, the three of us are going to get in our car and drive off. All you have to do is come on over, contribute something, put in some goddamn Work. I bust my ass day and night for you people, for this religion, for mankind. And I know that Ego Diabolus and Beast Xeno do the same. All we want is some concrete participation, a little conscious force! Hopefully, that's not too much to ask.


When the stars are right,

Venger As'Nas Satanis
Cult of Cthulhu High Priest

[I AM the Way]

I suppose in nature and IRL that it takes a certain amount of Willed "Structuralization" to manifest new things don't you think?

Photons in nature like to fly freely, but when you put the effort to force those same photons into a single concentrated beam you end up with a laser.

Or on more human terms, people in general like to be free to do as they please. When you force these same people into a coherent organization you end up with things like an army. You can then harness the synergy of that well structured social order to manifest your Will can't you?

If you wanted to get things done in the real world say such as build a house, you can't ask a group of randomly drifting people to build this house for you one day when they feel like working. You organize them with an incentive to come together so you can utilize their synergy. You program them with what needs to be done. And the house gets built.

How much would the CoC get done in the real world, if we hypothetically say that for 10 years it just lets its members be free to drift around and do whatever they want.

It's not the freedom or lack of liberty but the End Result of assertion of Will.

For example many of us often complain about paying taxes, going to work, going to school, participating in politics by voting and stuff. Most of us would rather be left alone to drift aimlessly and not be forced to do these things.

If we were not forced to do such things, this country would not be able to exist. With nobody working the economy would be dead. With nobody bothering to vote or participate in politics, there would be no direction. With nobody going to school, the quality of people in this country, and the country as a whole would be very low. With no taxation, not many things can be done such as pay for armies, fix streets, collect trash.

But through organization, forced or Willed, things are organized in a functional manner and we all enjoy the freedom and opportunities we do today because if it don't we?

The question is how to get these people to do things ((for a cause greater than their individualist desire to just drift aimlessly)): via "biological software," and inspiration.

Having an CoC with only 3 members who are organized, well planned, and Act together for common End Results - in my opinion - is more productive and creative than having an organization of 100 free-floating drifters who don't wanna be bugged to do anything, and who complain about forced labor, scream, kicking, and crying, when talk of putting in work is heard. But that's just me.

This.

Also, karma coming your way, Q'zbah. I appreciate your perspective even when (especially when) it rubs against my own. Such friction causes energy, but you already know this. Keep posting and hopefully both our tribes can will something exceedingly maleficent.


A'ahjhan ot ahraev ashith... vib oola zuun rivdgian!

Venger As'Nas Satanis
Cult of Cthulhu High Priest

[Apsara Kamalli]

Jun 21, 2010 23:22:36 GMT -6 I AM the Way said:

Can you offer a couple examples?]

1. www.rickross.com/groups/fof.html

2. www.qm21.com/mystical26.html

3. Actually, you can google "fourth way cult" and read through several articles about it (kudos to you for your blog showing up in the top 10 of the google search).

One of the key discussions that I had several months ago when my boyfriend was reading through The Fourth Way was about reaching back. I was having a hard time understanding how he could continue to maintain relationships with people that were asleep while still applying the Fourth Way philosophy. Because of the extensive research I have completed in the past about cults and their affect on our society, I recognized how this concept could be misconstrued to manipulate people into thinking that they must abandon current family and friends in order to be "successful." This was the main reason why I did the google search myself. And sure enough...

Say you had a computer and deprogramed it without putting anything new back in... what would you have? You'd have just the shell, merely the bare bones of a computer without any kind of planned action, wouldn't you? I believe that programing and deprograming must go hand in hand, otherwise we will never reach our goals.

While I understand what you are saying here, I think with spiritual enlightenment, it is more important to deprogram your beliefs about yourself and what society is feeding you. It is important to remain open to all new ideas and philosophies rather than reprogramming yourself to new set of beliefs and restrictions so that you can filter and apply as necessary. By deprogramming our force-fed behaviors and beliefs only to reprogram with a new set only perpetuates your limits to reaching enlightenment. At the same time, I contemplate the idea that I have an emotional reaction to the word "re-program" which may limit my ability to reason with it.

I don't know about anyone else, but I propose we keep going in the same direction, just deeper. As long as we're on the subject, let's take a reading. What is everyone's navigational opinion? Keep in mind that any suggestion should be tied to at least one recognizable contribution within the Cult of Cthulhu. And I don't mean posting interesting views, compiling Necronomicon research, sharing artwork with the forum, making a cool video, or writing a CoC book review. There comes a point when armchair efforts just don't cut it. The time to make your decision for Christ, if you will, is right fucking now.

I don't understand what you mean by this. I can't tie anything to a recognizable contribution within the CoC at this time. However, I don't understand how you can say that "posting interesting views, compiling Necronomicon research, sharing artwork with the forum, making a cool video, or writing a CoC book review" are mere armchair efforts. It is safe to say that the majority of the members of the CoC do not have the level of commitment to the community you have created as you do. This is your community, and they are choosing to be there. However, a critical part of our self-evolution could be doing any or all of the things you mention.

All we want is some concrete participation, a little conscious force! Hopefully, that's not too much to ask.

What is "concrete participation"? What is "conscious force"? And how do people achieve them? As our leader, we look to you for guidance.

Awake!

AK

[bdsvictory]

JESUS....I duck out for a week to prepare for an upcoming move and you folks have gone way deep! I love it.
I must admit though it is a bit overwhelming. I just listened to the newest Ooze broadcast (which was brilliant) and now I pop in here and see I have quite a bit of reading in front of me.

I do not have anything of substance to contribute...it is going to take another day to process all the new info. I will say this though: when I first heard about the CoC I thought it was a joke. Still, I find the whole mythos a bit hard to relate with. However, this one thread on objective reality has to be the best on-line discussion of LHP philosophy, by real LHP philosophers, that I have ever read. This puts anything I have seen from the Temple of Set or the Church of Satan to shame.

So, give me a day or two to process. I shall return!

AWAKE!

[I AM the Way]

JESUS....I duck out for a week to prepare for an upcoming move and you folks have gone way deep! I love it.
I must admit though it is a bit overwhelming. I just listened to the newest Ooze broadcast (which was brilliant) and now I pop in here and see I have quite a bit of reading in front of me.

I do not have anything of substance to contribute...it is going to take another day to process all the new info. I will say this though: when I first heard about the CoC I thought it was a joke. Still, I find the whole mythos a bit hard to relate with. However, this one thread on objective reality has to be the best on-line discussion of LHP philosophy, by real LHP philosophers, that I have ever read. This puts anything I have seen from the Temple of Set or the Church of Satan to shame.

So, give me a day or two to process. I shall return!

Thank you, brother. I am gratified.

Wow, praise all over the place. Our cup spilleth over and is making out pseudopods all soggy! Must be a proper alignment of the stars... I too feel invigorated by our recent progress!

Maybe it all depends on how you are inspired by that mythos and how you interpret the mythos for meaning?

Cthulhu does remind me of the Leviathan, since they both live in the ocean.

The octopus part of Cthulhu to me; as I interpret it; has a deeper meaning. It's a quite create that lives in the shadows of the depth; so in a sense, the octopus and thus Cthulhu represents sometime primal or primeval locked up or buried deep in the mysterious shadows of our psyche.

The octopus is also a symbol of Atlantis, which sank into the depths of the ocean. So the octopus would thus tie in with the Atlantis Mythos. The octopus symbolizes mystery and secrets. It's been used as a symbol by several secret societies. The Priory of Sion uses the octopus in their official seal.

The Cthulhu/Leviathan similarities is also significant to me. In Taoist Alchemy the "Dark Sea," or "Dark Ocean," represents the root or base chakra and the generative force.

The word Leviathan when split into its two Hebraic roots is "Levi," and "Than." The word Than means a Dragon or Serpent. The word Levi means a Crook, Coil, or Curve, alluding to the curved top of a shepherd's staff, which the ancient priests of YHWH used to carry; hence why they were called Levites.

So Leviathan together means Coiled Serpent or Curved Dragon. In Tantrika Shakti is called the Kundalini which also means Coiled or Curved Serpent/Dragon. She actually has three coils. She sleeps or is imprisoned in the root chakra ((Malkuth)), which is the dark sea.

In Vamamarga ((Left Hand)) Tantrika sex Awakens the Dragon ((Kundalini)) who rises out of the dark ocean upwards to the Crown Chakra ((Kether in the Kabbalah)).

When the Dragon reaches the Thrown of Shiva in the Crown, it is said that you are Illuminated with Divine Wisdom, and thus transform into a god ((divine being)).

There is a part in the Cthulhu mythos which says that when Cthlhu awakens that he will devour mankind, and through him mankind will be reborn a new race. Or I recall something that stated that humanity is the dream of the Ancient Ones, and when they awaken we will be no more, but will be recreated through Them a new race.

So, maybe if the mythos inspires you enough to find deeper meaning, or better yet, to call out from within your own psyche meaning; the Mythos; as all mythos are supposed to do; would have done its job.

Yes, and the slumbering God Cthulhu symbolizes our own individual struggles to Awaken. Tentacles have alien and sexual connotations. Imagine a monstrous draconic squid walking like a man and I'd wager you're mind's eye is seeing something beautiful, as well as, bewildering with perhaps a touch of grotesque awe. Such is the composite reality of our Dread Lord. And for some, He too is merely a symbol or mask for something hitherto unnameable, the Formless Black Essence.


A'ahjhan ot ahraev ashith... vib oola zuun rivdgian!

Venger As'Nas Satanis
Cult of Cthulhu High Priest

[I AM the Way]

1. www.rickross.com/groups/fof.html

2. www.qm21.com/mystical26.html

3. Actually, you can google "fourth way cult" and read through several articles about it (kudos to you for your blog showing up in the top 10 of the google search).

One of the key discussions that I had several months ago when my boyfriend was reading through The Fourth Way was about reaching back. I was having a hard time understanding how he could continue to maintain relationships with people that were asleep while still applying the Fourth Way philosophy. Because of the extensive research I have completed in the past about cults and their affect on our society, I recognized how this concept could be misconstrued to manipulate people into thinking that they must abandon current family and friends in order to be "successful." This was the main reason why I did the google search myself. And sure enough...

Oh yes, plenty of examples of brainwashing, poison kool-aid drinking, or dependency creating cults throughout the world... even involving the Fourth Way. Where there is weakness there will be manipulative oppressors. But where there is strength we shall witness seeds of the Left Hand Path.

I can't do anything about those other groups. I can, however, closely monitor and manage the Cult of Cthulhu. I was hoping you wouldn't uncover any glaring signs of negative cult behavior within our organization.

While I understand what you are saying here, I think with spiritual enlightenment, it is more important to deprogram your beliefs about yourself and what society is feeding you. It is important to remain open to all new ideas and philosophies rather than reprogramming yourself to new set of beliefs and restrictions so that you can filter and apply as necessary. By deprogramming our force-fed behaviors and beliefs only to reprogram with a new set only perpetuates your limits to reaching enlightenment. At the same time, I contemplate the idea that I have an emotional reaction to the word "re-program" which may limit my ability to reason with it.

Instead of seeing it as de-programing and re-programing, let's look at it this way. We want to get rid of our limiting beliefs and behaviors which hold us back while, at the same time, installing a positive belief system with beneficial thoughts, feelings, and actions. Those desiring progress must create a new magnetic center which aids in our development by attracting conscious influences direct from a higher source.

I don't understand what you mean by this. I can't tie anything to a recognizable contribution within the CoC at this time. However, I don't understand how you can say that "posting interesting views, compiling Necronomicon research, sharing artwork with the forum, making a cool video, or writing a CoC book review" are mere armchair efforts. It is safe to say that the majority of the members of the CoC do not have the level of commitment to the community you have created as you do. This is your community, and they are choosing to be there. However, a critical part of our self-evolution could be doing any or all of the things you mention.

Lesser contributions and commonplace efforts are still very welcome. We appreciate them up to a certain degree. Yet, super-efforts are required to make greater gains in understanding. I'm asking for everyone to push themselves, do more, try harder, excel... go past your pain barrier, beyond the threshold of ordinary!

What is "concrete participation"? What is "conscious force"? And how do people achieve them? As our leader, we look to you for guidance.

The question really is what do these things mean to you?


A'ahjhan ot ahraev ashith... vib oola zuun rivdgian!

Venger As'Nas Satanis
Cult of Cthulhu High Priest

[I AM the Way]

Thanks V. Now your talking my Language VS

According to the New Forum Rules, discussion board protocol states that I am to be referred to as either High Priest Venger Satanis, Lord Satanis, or Master Satanis.

Now, this is not to set myself up on some kind of pedestal, but was a reaction to several unpleasant occurrences in our forum's history. It's a slippery slope, I'm afraid. Plenty of respectful individuals might mention me as VS (which I occasionally do myself) and then some other douche reading that believes it's ok to intentionally undermine my authority in a completely unrelated post.

Thanks, everyone, for complying. In return, if someone wants me to refer to them in a specific manner (within reason), then just let me know and I'd be happy to do so.


A'ahjhan ot ahraev ashith... vib oola zuun rivdgian!

Venger As'Nas Satanis
Cult of Cthulhu High Priest