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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Aug 10, 2011 18:07:16 GMT -6
Ny'Obstareth and Loki, you both seem to be pretty disillusioned with the state of Satanism here. Many people probably won't like what I have to say, but here in Motueka in know almost ten Satanists, none older than 19, out of 7,125 people who live in our town. Most of them have tried to involve themselves with "serious" Satanic organisations before, but aren't taken seriously because of their ages, after a while, most move on to something more "sensible", because they haven't been cultivated Satanically. Ten out of seven thousand, doesn't sound like a lot? Assuming those figures were consistent across the country there could be roughly five and a half thousand potential satanists in a country you can run over from east to west coast in a day. Five and a half thousand people willing to worship an Octopus Monster from space. Am I suggesting we indocrinate children? Certainly not. Well, yes, I suppose I am disillusioned with it. In my experience, the majority of so-called Satanists around here are black metal kids with a penchant for demonology. It might be different down South, I wouldn't know. But even if there are ten who say they're interested, then it'd still only be one or two who have the balls to go all the way with the work required. I think, too, it would be wise to try and bring people from as many different backgrounds together under something new, rather than just drawing on the Satanic community and letting it become just another parody of Satanism. We need to bring as many magick workers from as many different backgrounds as possible together, thus 'infecting' just a little bit of each group. Then, the infection spreads. Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
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Post by sin on Aug 11, 2011 11:45:37 GMT -6
Sounds like you are on your way. Keep collaborating with each other, come up with a solid plan and execute it. All you really need is a half dozen people to start out, it will grow over time. Then you can decide a locale for holding meetings, rituals and such.
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 11, 2011 20:02:59 GMT -6
Sounds like a good plan, a foundation. Use your environment and commit to devotion and ritual as a method of refinement. Good plan. I suppose the next step would be to decide on your A:O, their attributes, and the best methods of devotion rituals. Any ideas? I mentioned before the Great Old Ones I thought to be most appropriate, considering the nature of NZ's environment, to form a foundation to work on were Yog-Sothoth, Shub-Niggurath, Dagon and Tsathoggua. My personal associations and interpretations for each God is as follows. [glow=red,2,300] Yog-Sothoth[/glow] - Keeper of the Gate. Lord of Change. The First Sorcerer. Worshipped on hilltops under the stars, preferably within a stone circle. The stone circle itself is representational of his form. I've always felt that a more shamanic approach is the best for working with Yog-Sothoth, considering His favour is useful when seeking entry into different astral and dimensional planes, and this is one of the key methods of Magick for the Shaman. I am not at all suggesting a traditional approach to Shamanism, or indeed any 'types' of magick I mention herein. No, I suggest we reinvent it. [glow=red,2,300] Shub-Niggurath[/glow] Hermaphrodite deity of ecstacy and wilderness. God/dess of Lust and Passion. Giver of Abundance and Fertility. Worshipped under the shade of forests during the day, and in open fields beneath the stars. Ecstacy, excess and the senses should be aroused and empowered during the Black Goat's rites, with music, drink, food and pleasure. Style of Magick? Sex magick, ecstacy (not the drug. Although..), sensory overload (to achieve gnosis, etc), dance and festival, etc. [glow=red,2,300] Dagon[/glow] Keeper of Secrets. Giver of Prosperity. Father of the Deep Ones. Worshipped on the shores of beaches and marshes and in seaside caverns. Times of worship should be scheduled to fit within specific dates of the Lunar cycle. Strong link with Gold. I'm not entirely sure on the best way to approach Magick when working with Dagon. In times past my workings with Him have usually been improvised and I guess somewhat tribal in nature. Hmm.. ideas? [glow=red,2,300] Tsathoggua[/glow] The Sleeper of N'kai. Devourer of Sacrifices. Master of the Formless Spawn. Worshipped in deep caves and caverns, and in swamplands. To be especially exalted when Saturn is in the sky. Time/space travel and telepathy are within His domain, as is lucid dreaming and meditation. Again, my approach to working with Tsathoggua has always been very primal and tribal. Lots of dirt and drumming and chanting in grunts and squeals. But if anyone else has other methods they use when working with Tsathoggua, please share. As far as devotion rites go, I guess the primary God we work with will dictate the style and intensity of of said workings. But all should serve to liberate and empower the individual and the group. Obviously. Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! This is good, I like that these are the more primal of the Old Gods.
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 11, 2011 20:05:23 GMT -6
@vs @cora'Sahn Cheers for the link and apologies to DudeTyson. It is amazing how ignorant one can be of there own localities. I was shocked two years ago to be informed by overseas occultists that we had maori sorcerers who practise magick and that they are Chinese ones as well. I'm going, I am from NZ and am Chinese and this all new news to me LD Maori sorcerors? I guess that includes me! I have numerous tohunga in my ancestry...perhaps I should explore this at some point.
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 11, 2011 20:49:56 GMT -6
Is anyone else feeling something going on here? A theme is shaping itself... A system of ritual, primal in nature, using the Old Ones related to earth and water, with hints of Yog-Sothoth added to touch on the austerity of the sorceror. Maori tradition could play a part and most definitely should, I think the Old Ones fit with Maori culture well...We walk in R'lyehs shadow dreaming the dreams of the Ancient Ones...
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Post by sin on Aug 12, 2011 7:48:34 GMT -6
I'd imagine that you could also come up with rites which include ritual body painting or tattooing.
The sky's the limit really, when you consider all the existing symbolism and practice to draw from. I would think Maori myth and the Cthulhu mythos cycle could be a syncretic religion in itself.
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 12, 2011 23:30:49 GMT -6
I like the body painting idea, it would prove a lot easier than tattooing certainly...
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 12, 2011 23:31:30 GMT -6
I like the body painting idea, it would prove a lot easier than tattooing certainly...
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Post by boksmutant on Aug 13, 2011 22:55:28 GMT -6
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Post by sin on Aug 14, 2011 14:53:14 GMT -6
Great idea, we did this locally here in VA with the Pungo Witch. Each organization or individual which helped in its funding, received a brick with our name on it. The statue sits in Virginia Beach, not only as a reminder of the lore, but also the exonneration of an accused witch.
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Aug 14, 2011 20:53:21 GMT -6
I've been toying with the idea of ritual scarification for a long time. Actually, just this morning I made plans to go over the fading lines of my own design on my hand, and later today I will be sculpting statues, probably starting with a new Cthulhu idol.. But I digress.
The primal, tribal tradition has always been my approach. While I was living in the beachtown of Mandurah in Australia last year, I often performed improvised rituals at the local estuary where frogs, snakes, octopi, fish and bugs were abundant, and more than once I found myself using an intense chanting style that resembled a Maori haka. It was a very effective ritual tool, I believe. I'm sure anyone here who is familiar with the Maori type of dance known as 'haka' would agree that its easy to imagine the words being changed to "Cthulhu fhtagn.." etc.
So I say bring it on. Actually, just the other day I picked up a new book on the Mythos I'd never heard of before. I walked into this shop (which is unfortunately closing down) that sells crystals and new age books, etc. and had a look around.I was about to leave when my eyes found a small red book labeled 'The Lovecraft Necronomicon Primer'. Upon inspection it proved to be a catalogue-style compendium of the different Ancient Ones and assorted creatures, with a few neat pictures spattered through. So, naturally, I bought it on principle. But the interesting bit, and the point of the anecdotal rambling, is that the woman at the shop told me when I took the book to the counter that she had originally got it for herself, but didn't like thre pictures so decided to sell it through the shop. She also said she didn't like that the author labeled Shub-Niggurath as a female, being more inclined to think of the Black Goat as a masculine deity (a view which I tend to share). So I've found at least one other person in my city who could possibly be interested. More importantly, she's not really from the Satanic background that many other potential grotto members may be, opening up our opportunities a bit more. I will be going to speak with her at some point this week.
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
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Post by sin on Aug 15, 2011 6:48:14 GMT -6
Ritual scarification can be quite the experience. I've not been the person cut, but I act as the cutter in ritual for a couple of friends of mine (using a scalpel). The patterns are beautiful over time, during they place themselves in a certain head space and don't feel the pain. I suppose its similar to when I get tattooed. I have some rather large pieces (still in the works) and in an area of the body that is extremely painful. After about 5 minutes, I don't feel the pain. I know my artist is working me, and there are some spots that yoink me out and I'm like "Ah!" but then I can get right back there.
I meet Lovecraft fans in the weirdest of places sometimes.
Keep us posted!
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 15, 2011 18:57:32 GMT -6
I hope things go well with that, some non-Satanic lovecraftians would be a good move for us certainly.
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 15, 2011 19:25:09 GMT -6
I'd like to see action with this grotto, less theory and more action. Don't mistake my meaning, in the design process as we are things are going as they should, but as an operating grotto I'd like a focus on actually practicing magic. A good example for this is Chaos magic, rather than building up a system, I suggest we create enough of a theme to facilitate ritual, then focus on the getting down to some serious Black Magic. Theory is suited to the online nature of the cult as it is now, but as we are to be solid body of Cult of Cthulhu, I suggest we pursue a solid form of Magical practice, which would enjoy a certain sinergy with the tone we have composed so far.
I'm suggesting some results based Magical action.
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Aug 15, 2011 20:55:40 GMT -6
Agreed. Magick should be a part of everyday life. We should feed and aid and honour the Great Old Ones each day with a short ritual performed soon after waking. This ritual will also allow for room to empower the current works of the grotto, and the Cult. When I was in my training to become a houngan, my Mambo told me various prayers and procedures to be performed each day, and I found this to be a very effective and empowering technique, as you would expect from such a system as Vodou. I believe it's important to ritualize every day and empower it to our own constructive ends. It strengthens ourselves, our Grotto, the Cult, and our own faith too.
So, I'm suggesting suggesting we formulate a rite that will serve as a daily ritual of Worship and Empowerment, keeping in this tribal theme which has developed. First and foremost, this rite should be made primarily with the existing Grotto members in mind. Personally, I think that the rite, at least partially, should be performed outdoors, although I wonder as to how convenient this would be for you two, Rezal and Loki. Assuming it is convenient to do so, the rite should involve some kind of specified energizing technique outdoors, drawing in the energy from the soil and plantlife and wind. This should be followed by a dedication or 'prayer' to the Great Old Ones, affirming our mindset for the day and empowering ourselves and our Gods. Personally, I'd have this recited outside, clearly and proudly, but if this isn't possible then I'd suggest doing it in front of a mirror, maintaining eye contact with yourself throughout the recitation. The affirmation should be accompanied by a symbolic act, such as putting on a certain ring or pendant that will serve as a reminder, and a talisman. Any 'prayers', offerings, etc should then be made at the Altar before closing the rite and getting on with the day/night.
So this is the basic framework for what I would consider to be an efficient and effective ritual for focusing the energies of the Grotto each day. i think it's a good place to start. I welcome any suggestions and additions anyone would care to make.
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
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Post by lokidreaming on Aug 16, 2011 1:14:50 GMT -6
3rd the motion
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Post by sin on Aug 16, 2011 18:58:27 GMT -6
Keep it going guys, brainstorming is good.
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Aug 16, 2011 21:40:46 GMT -6
This is a suggestion for an affirmation/dedication. This is the first draft, just made it up now I have returned from the depths of the Dreamlands! A wiser man in knowledge and cunning, Faithful agent of Yog-Sothoth! I awaken the more I dream. Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! The All-One lurks on the threshold of our consciousness and grants one to trespass in strange space and time, It is to Yog-Sothoth that I offer my praises and beg service in the Shadow Vacuum of the Dark Stars. The agents of the Great Old Ones shall rise triumphant above the Alignments, and to loathsome splendour will we restore the fallen kingdom, and the Great Old Ones will be exalted above the very Stars. Ia! Shub-Niggurath! Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young! From wells of night to the gulfs of space, and from the gulfs of space to the wells of night, Ever our praises to Yog-Sothoth, to Tsathoggua, Dagon and Shub-Niggurath! The Old Ones were, the Old Ones are, and the Old Ones shall be! Ia! Ia! Or something like that. Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 17, 2011 18:55:00 GMT -6
Liking the dedication, outside is good for me. Thankfully my location lends itself to outdoor rituals, in a one hour drive I can find mountains, swamps, oceans, rivers, forests etc.
Tsathogguan Brainstorm
Tsathoggua favors the dark, his formless spawn are like shadows, Tsathogguan rituals would be performed in the darkness, the New Moon would be an ideal time for this, so would overcast nights, mud would be involved as Ny'Obstaresh said. Being in the state we are now solitary workings are most practical for us, this suits well. Alone in the dark, writhing in the mud the sorceror invokes Tsathoggua, all the better if you can do this in an isolate location, then you can scream, and shout. The instinctual sense of fear and aloneness inspired by the nature of the ritual would create a powerful and dreadful gnosis, the ritual would be closed with fire, mankinds instinctual safe place, and a creater of light and warm, which would help, considering you would be freezing and covered in mud alone in the wilderness. Tsathoggua is the lonely toad god and this ritual is a sort of emulation ritual, appealing to instinct.
For a group working you would perform a similar thing, but focusing on body contact, things brushing against you in the dark, animal shouts echoing around the forest, the dark, the feel would be a more "being embraced by tsathoggua" the formless spawn surrounding you, the chanting of forbidden words in the darkness, perhaps less potent, perhaps more.
Those are my ideas ^^
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 17, 2011 19:10:07 GMT -6
I have returned from the depths of the Dreamlands! A wiser man in knowledge and cunning, Faithful agent of Yog-Sothoth! I awaken the more I dream. Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! The All-One lurks on the threshold of our consciousness and grants one to trespass in strange space and time, It is to Yog-Sothoth that I offer my praises and beg service in the Shadow Vacuum of the Dark Stars. The agents of the Great Old Ones shall rise triumphant above the Alignments, and to loathsome splendour will we restore the fallen kingdom, and the Great Old Ones will be exalted above the very Stars. Ia! Shub-Niggurath! Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young! From wells of night to the gulfs of space, and from the gulfs of space to the wells of night, Ever our praises to Yog-Sothoth, to Tsathoggua, Dagon and Shub-Niggurath! The Old Ones were, the Old Ones are, and the Old Ones shall be! Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! This is good, I will prepare my own dedication tonight, when I am a little more switched on, as well as some other bits and bobs.
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Aug 17, 2011 19:14:25 GMT -6
I like this. It's very much how I've always interpreted the rites of Tsathoggua. Very tribal and earthly, just mad, blind wallowing in darkness. I favour caves for workings with Tsathoggua. They lend themselves well to echoes, and with the right tone of voice it can be very easy to amplify croaks and guttural chantings to subterranean cacophony. Very effective. The thing that needs to be established though, is for what purposes would we do this? What will the practitioner gain from the experience? What can Tsathoggua reasonably be petitioned for? Some of the Great Old Ones are easy to use in ritual context, like Shub-Niggurath and Yog-Sothoth, because Their roles are more clearly defined. I appreciate that this is a foundation for as you said an "emulation ritual", but what does one gain by emulating the great Sleeper of N'Kai? This is something that will need to be explained in detail to any grotto newcomers. The significance must be apparent to yield a better affect on the subject. Good to see some more thought going on though - excellent!
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 17, 2011 19:28:25 GMT -6
I see what you mean, Tsathoggua's role as a gift giver is rather ambigous compared to the other deities. Just a sudden hit then, but introspection, in that moment, laid bare before the Forgotten God there is only you. You mentioned he could be an accepter of sacrifices. In a branch of South American mythology a priest would be swallowed by the toad to enter the underworld, their toad god was the patron of Shamanic journeys. Perhaps his ambiguity is a part of his nature, while the novitiate may petition Yog-Sothoth in dreaming, or copulate screaming the black goats name, Tsathoggua is the solitary God, he is the isolation of the sorceror, he could even be the patron of the practitioners self, who knows? I think grotto newcomers would do well to praise the other Old Ones, but should the novitiate be working alone in a cave, risking hypothermia miles away from anywhere? I say knowledge of Tsathoggua comes with a knowledge of self, but if anyone else has ideas, put them forward.
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Aug 18, 2011 8:36:27 GMT -6
Rezal, you will have probably already seen this message (via facebook), but I'm posting it here for the benefit of everyone. I like the emphasis on isolation that you give Tsathoggua. I should think we can use this in a ritual context. He is an obvious choice for malefic and destructive rites, as well as the disposal of unwanted people/situations/energies, etc. due to his role as the devourer. I think also He is a good choice when one is searching for answers to questions, for His sleepfulness is a pondering meditation and biding of time, rather than actual rest, for which the Great Old Ones have no need. Donald Tyson also attributes skill in the necromantic arts as one of the gifts given by Tsathoggua to His worshippers. I'm not aware of the foundation for this, but I'd say it's quite appropriate, considering the Gods cthonic nature. Also, in some of CA Smith's work it's implied that He is connected with dimensional, or at least planetary, travel too. Anyone have anything to add?
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
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Post by sin on Aug 18, 2011 8:39:49 GMT -6
story-board sketches of rituals, would be EPIC and useful for future cult tomes.
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 18, 2011 22:40:20 GMT -6
Storyboard you say? Could work well, I think I'll try preparing my next ritual as one and see how it goes...
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Post by Sarak G'hash on Aug 20, 2011 5:19:46 GMT -6
Storyboard you say? Could work well, I think I'll try preparing my next ritual as one and see how it goes... That is an awesome idea! This takes visualization to a whole new level! Very, very creative indeed! This is the kind of creative input that we need. Awake!
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 21, 2011 19:30:12 GMT -6
Unfortunately a ritual based around writhing around in the dark didn't storyboard all too well. Perhaps Dagon will do better.
Any news with the grotto? I've been trying to cobble some writing together, with little success yet. I also have a painting in the works.
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Post by Kai'zen on Aug 21, 2011 19:46:33 GMT -6
I think we need a super-cool Grotto name, not neccessarily a priority or anything, but having something more than New Zealand Grotto might make for a little inspiration. Anyone else?
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Post by sin on Aug 22, 2011 12:15:27 GMT -6
Think ahead, the CoC is ever-growing, changing and evolving. Eventually, we can have a working manual for new cultists Find an illustrator for your grotto! Just sayin' I am calculating, what can I say *smirk*
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Aug 22, 2011 16:13:57 GMT -6
A grotto name is something I've been pondering since the idea was first mentioned. Our name should be a reflection of what we do, and should hint at the style of magick that we develop and maintain in the grotto. I think this comes after all the other important stuff we need to take care of first. We still haven't totally decided on the main focal points of the grotto, there are still only very vague outlines of what we want to do here - we need to start to distill and coagulate. In the same vein, has anyone heard from Loki recently? We should all be bringing something to the table.
I still stand by the idea that we should focus our rituals and principles within the grotto around the Great Old Ones most associated with the land here. Shub-Niggurath, Tsathoggua, Yog-Sothoth, and Dagon. Bush, Caves, Hills, Ocean. I think it's the easiest way to go about beginning the grotto. We will still work with the other Great Old Ones, but we will have these four as our kind of 'Patron Saints'. I maintain the perspective of a shamanic, primal tradition when dealing with the Great Old Ones, and have found it effective. Rezal and I seem to agree on this point, and I guess Loki, too, though I don't wish to presume anything. So the important things we have yet to fully establish are the basic rituals (Daily affirmation, initiation rite, a rite of worship and empowerment for the Great Old Ones) and the basic principles and values of the Grotto. I'm currently working on the drafts of some rituals for the grotto, which I will post soon. \
How exactly do you mean an "illustrator", Cora?
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
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