|
Post by sugarubies on Jul 13, 2011 3:24:39 GMT -6
Hi all. It's not what you think. I recently read a thread of a member's experience with a receptive wife rejecting and fearing his practices in the home and the marriage ending badly. It made me think of powerful effects on the atmosphere. Do any of you that conduct regular rituals and attempt to contact other entities have children in the home? Does it affect your results/aims? Do any of you involve your children in any rituals/teachings/'praying'? How would you gauge their reaction? Ciekawe.. I am very curious. I have a 6 year old daughter and a 3 year old son who question everything I do. We generally do not follow a religion and teach more about nature, plants, herbs, and we're just beginning to introduce ancient religions (now Myths) - Celtic, Egyptian, Sumerian, Greek, etc. We live in Poland, so we have a fair amount of counter-Christian educating to do without damaging their social lfie - Poland is 90% Christian and we would like them to enjoy the benefits of learning from their peers without being brainwashed like them. Any thoughts? Has anyone got any experience with teaching the complex ideas of CoC to younger children? Awake.
|
|
|
Post by loganvonkannibal on Jul 13, 2011 13:32:33 GMT -6
Hi all. It's not what you think. I recently read a thread of a member's experience with a receptive wife rejecting and fearing his practices in the home and the marriage ending badly. It made me think of powerful effects on the atmosphere. Do any of you that conduct regular rituals and attempt to contact other entities have children in the home? Does it affect your results/aims? Do any of you involve your children in any rituals/teachings/'praying'? How would you gauge their reaction? Ciekawe.. I am very curious. I have a 6 year old daughter and a 3 year old son who question everything I do. We generally do not follow a religion and teach more about nature, plants, herbs, and we're just beginning to introduce ancient religions (now Myths) - Celtic, Egyptian, Sumerian, Greek, etc. We live in Poland, so we have a fair amount of counter-Christian educating to do without damaging their social lfie - Poland is 90% Christian and we would like them to enjoy the benefits of learning from their peers without being brainwashed like them. Any thoughts? Has anyone got any experience with teaching the complex ideas of CoC to younger children? Awake. I still am a kid, 14, but I would pick up a few H.P. Lovecraft books, ask Venger Satanis for a PDF of the Cthulhu Cult and Liber A:O and read those to them, get them to ask questions. Overally just have fun with it. Just explain and interpert things the best you can.
|
|
|
Post by sin on Jul 13, 2011 13:49:37 GMT -6
I do. I also used to run a children's group, which exposed children to all kinds of alternatives in religious thought and philosophy to foster spirituality. I wanted my son to choose for himself, but based on a wider range of choices.
The children's group explored all kinds of religion, culture, mythology and I threw in the occult for good measure. Children enjoy story-telling, and can grasp complex ideas rather well. Don't under-estimate them. Age range was 5 - 14. One of the group projects was the development of their own personal grimoires. I still have my son's, its adorable.
As far as practice goes, I took my son to public rituals. There is a large pagan community where I live, and a couple of the local communities host public Esbats and Sabbats. The first time, I took him to an Esbat. Dillon thought it was kind of weird, I don't blame him...I thought it was rather weird myself. The experience was good for him, for us to talk about what he saw, his impressions and his experience. The following month, there was a Sabbat. It was suppose to be a Spring celebration Ostara, but everyone wore black, it was rather somber, and apparently someone in the community had passed away. Dillon liked that everyone wore a black cloak and asked me to make him one. He chose the color Royal Blue, and he wore that thing up until about 2 years ago. After the allure of magic wore away, it essentially was his bathrobe. ha ha. At home, he was just curious about what I was doing and why, and I would explain it to him. I would correlate that with something he may have been exposed to at school, or by this friends. This is the Southern U.S., Virginia, the home of the 700 Club and Pat Robertson, Founders Inn, etc. So religion...Christian religion, is everywhere here, in everything. When Dillon was in the 3rd grade, he was cornered by a group of children that couldn't understand why he wasn't taught about God at home. He was really traumatized by the experience a bit. They were telling him things like his immortal soul would burn in hell, as would his parents be damned for not teaching him. I think that would freak out any kid, who wasn't exposed to such concepts. I had to do a little damage control at home, and it was about this time that I got the idea for the group, and talking to my son about Monotheistic Religions.
The more I exposed him to, he started to have his own interests. He was very much into Welsh Lore, The Templars, Knights, and the code of a Warrior (he still is, to a degree today). By the time I had reached the Cthulhu Mythos, he was roughly 14. By this time he had had enough personal experience with ritualization (years worth), to decide for himself that he thought it was unnecessary and felt content to just be an observer. It reminds me very much of how I felt, as an Atheist growing up in a overly folkie Catholic family. I think he was more open and accepting of diversity in belief, especially amidst his peers. His friends are a motley crew, anything from Christian and Jews, to Atheists and Occultists. He's Agnostic currently, and still trying to figure it all out for himself. I answer his questions, explain things to him when he needs it, and provide resources upon request. Recently he informed me that hes interested in Germanic people, and mythos cycles. He's always had an attraction to German language, he's is entering his 3rd year of German when the school year starts. He wants to know more about the Vikings. We've talked a fair bit about the hollywood interpretations, vs. the real people and culture. Seems to still have him captivated.
He's accustomed to having an occultist for a mother, and one that runs her own working group out of her home. He sat in on a number of my grotto meetings when I discussed the cult paradigm, the stories, symbols, etc. He is very familiar with Cthulhu, and he has friends that are, at the very least, fans of HP Lovecraft. I've recently had to lay down the law about his friends raiding my library, and books coming up missing. My house is the epic-center for his peers to explore the occult.
He's pretty firm at this point that Magic is just psychology (my influence I'm sure), and religion is crazy. The rituals and such, he just shakes his head and dismisses me as a neurotic parent. He reminds me so much of myself, I know my influence is in every fiber of his being. One day, when he's in the midst of religion, he'll look back and remember how nuts he thought I was, just as I had when I was his age when my mother conducted psychic awareness classes, in the presence of Mother Isis. History doesn't repeat but it sure does Rhyme.
Determinism, gotta love it.
My advice, is to let her decide based on her own exposure and experience. If you want to prepare her for the Christian mind-set at every turn, I would at least talk to her about what these religions are, why they are in practice, and how much of an influence it has over your society. From there, you might expose her to religions of the world, just so she is aware of them. Indoctrination is indoctrination, so raising her in a cult paradigm is really no different than raising her to believe certain things from other religions.
CS
|
|
|
Post by sugarubies on Jul 14, 2011 15:14:58 GMT -6
Thanks for your advice and ideas. Logan, I do read HPL, but I wouldn't dare attempt to soften it or chocolate coat it for my young ones. It's best left for them to pluck off the shelf one day when they are curious. It's also nice to hear from a young learner about how to start with CoC. I appreciate the nudge in the right direction. Cora, You must be an amazing mother. The children's group sounds incredible and truly educational. Thank you for sharing your experiences with your son. It sounds like he's gotten a sound education and has some great resources at his disposal. Right now we have a great book series of ancient religions for children. It's in Polish, but my husband reads (discusses) a chapter with both of them each evening. It's very easy then to correlate ancient religions with our current, more popular one. "That's what they used to believe then, and now we have this one. Which god was stronger, do ya think? Who was smarter? Isn't that interesting that they used to think birds poked holes in the evening's blanket to make stars? Isn't it interesting that they believe a ghost watches everything they do and protects them?" It's great fun and easy to show them rational thinking. My husband and I often talk about politics and conflicts all over the world and sometimes we need to take pause and explain why an important lady was killed in US or why it's not a good idea to vacation in Tunisia this summer. This is rather the hard part. Grading the language so that it's not too harsh, but the truth still stands, as naked as it is from our perspective. They will then turn tail and run for the balcony and blow bubbles for the next hour. Again, thanks for telling about your guy. He sounds clever. Awake!
|
|
|
Post by sin on Jul 16, 2011 5:48:30 GMT -6
Sounds like there's some good interraction and engagement with your children. I chose to foster critical thinking skills, in favor of indoctrinating him with mine. Influence is always there, but when I see him emulating me, I challenge him. In the end, he comes into his own. That's what's most important to me, in raising him.
The language, ah yes, a constant challeng for our species. Language is often the bane to understanding, and we must find creative ways to corrode and reconstruct it, into something that aids in understanding.
CS
|
|
Prasinus Ambulans
Novitiate
I walk among his emerald plane, as his herald I spread his word.
Posts: 7
|
Post by Prasinus Ambulans on Nov 13, 2011 22:49:21 GMT -6
Being only 17 myself, I cant much say how rituals are viewed by MY children, as i have none, but i can tell you how my younger brothers/family views them. Within my year or so involved in the cult thus far, Ive participated and conducted two rituals. One: a shoggoth summoning, and two: Inducting a friend into the cult. Now my shoggoth ritual involved several friends, and was done in a vacant room next to mine. While openly, my parents or siblings didn't question it, they were very much aware that it happened. The blood stained floor and curtain showed them that I was more or less a lost cause in their christian world. (The blood being a result of my intoxicated friend almost severing his finger). THe induction ritual however was more tame and subtle. My family viewed them as black and wretched, but made no action against me for them.
|
|
xoc
Novitiate
Antgo-gnostic
Posts: 18
|
Post by xoc on Nov 21, 2011 9:44:11 GMT -6
I loved Cora's post. I think that she has a point there about opening the doors and having children experience rituals and so forth. I think it's a good exercise.
For myself, I started out pretty young. In my teens with rituals. I do not have children yet, but as far as spiritual rituals and some magic group rituals I don't see why I couldn't invite them. However, when they're real young I think it's best to make it age appropriate and it's hard to get a six year old to pay attention to a serious prayer or rite I am sure. So if someone is preparing to involve a young child, then perhaps, it should be in rituals that the child has fun and learns from. For example, you could have the child and you bake cakes for the Queen of Heaven. While you're teaching the child to bake, you can also give insight on the goddess's myths.
|
|
|
Post by sin on Nov 21, 2011 10:33:03 GMT -6
I also think its perfectly healthy to 'try out' religions. More recently he's told me he is trying to be a Christian. He has lost a lot of his liking towards Knights, the Templars, and is more interested in Barbarian tribes. I asked him what he was looking for, and he told me he feels like he's living in the wrong time period. He would prefer life to be more simple (he has a loathing for capitalism/materialism), hunt for your food, go into battle when necessary to defend your home and country - and to pursue greatness and nobility.
His father is certainly an influence. Once a Theistic Satanist, in the last 2 years he's regressed back to being Christian, some form of Catholicism but I can't be sure. When he showed up to pick up Dillon on Saturday, he was wearing a gold cross (a necklace) around his wrist. I asked him about it, as it dangled about. And he just told me it keeps him calm. I nodded, and asked him why he didn't just wear it as a necklace? He told me he had to keep it close, as a necklace he'd forget he was wearing it - and he didn't want to forget. I get that sort of thing, so it didn't seem odd to me but I think my son is still perplexed over the transition. His father had always spoken to him about Satan being a real entity, a proverbial boogeyman and a shadower over those who commit evil deeds. He understands my use of Satan as an expression of self, but I think like most people, he looks at the world and thinks: Well hell, something out there has to be responsible for all this?!
I asked my son if I could be of any help to him, such as study, church, etc. "Trying to be a Christian" was pretty vague. Just to be handy to answer his questions (and have our dinner-time discussions). He said he had no interest in going to church, or joining a 'group', he was more interested in following the guidance of Jesus. He thought Jesus had some pretty groovy ideas, and many of them were just common decency as a person. I told him that he was most-likely already following the majority of it, but some is more challenging than others. Some may be disregarded completely in favor of what he wanted to do, or felt compelled to do (either by will or by influence).
He asked me for an example. So I asked him how many times he was able to turn the other cheek. I reminded him of his recent school suspension, in which he responded to a classmate putting his hands on him. He did not turn the other cheek, instead he knocked the kid out with one punch - and was suspended for it. He just needed the context. He understood and agreed that there hasn't been many times that he was able to just walk away to avoid a conflict. Nor could he find forgiveness for some people who have meant him harm. He began to see what I was taking about as I gave him examples of guidance he was following already by either family, school, peer, society - influence.
The Mormons were in the area last month, they came by and spoke with Dillon after school (3 times) trying to get Dillon to go to a lecture at the Coliseum. He gave me a business card, and told me the Mormons advised him to have his parents check the website (LDS Church). I told him I had no interest in becoming a Mormon but if he was interested I had the Book of Mormon in my library for his perusal. I gave him the religion in a nutshell during dinner, and he laughed at the idea of the golden tablets. I reminded him that many religions have symbols they use, such as Moses receiving the commandments from a burning bush. He's sat in on CoC grotto meetings in the past, and we joked about the great Cthulhu and what it represents in this Quantum religion.
He asked me if I'd be mad at him for becoming a Christian. I asked him what ever gave him that idea? And reminded him that as an occultist I use symbols from Christianity, and use Esoteric Christianity among other modalities for myself. He's 16, he's finding his own way and figuring out what the hell he believes. Perhaps its because of the household he was raised, that its even a topic on his mind. I've spoken to his friends, other teens - and they don't seem to think of 'religion' a whole lot outside the context of what their parents force them to do (such as going to church, events, etc.). I think its great that his circle of friends are diverse. Everything from Abrahamic religions, to the occult. So he has a pretty decent motley crew of friends to kick ideas around with. I mostly just have to set the ground rules for raiding my library. Books disappear, and that has to be controlled. Thankfully, I don't have much in terms of Wicca which is mostly what they are after. He does have (1) friend that is a Satanist, and (1) that is into the SIMON mythos.
At any rate, I'd expect him to change his mind about this at least a few more times before he settles on anything.
I say YAY! The hard atheism was really annoying - ha!
CS
|
|
xoc
Novitiate
Antgo-gnostic
Posts: 18
|
Post by xoc on Nov 21, 2011 15:45:55 GMT -6
I really enjoy reading your posts here Cora, because I see a more personal and introspective side. I agree with you that its better to let a child forge their own path. With all the various religions and philosophies out there, there's tons to learn and gain from.
I did this when I was about his age and one therapist, my grandparents, and some recons insulted me for being this way. (bottom line: none of them understood it or even tried. Not to mention that no religion is free of some form of syncretization of other religions' ideas, so they're pretty much hypocrites there.) Pretty much the typical view is this is "unhealthy" and shows you're "mentally unstable". But my ex boyfriend's mom did the same thing and so do a lot of people, I mean eclecticism after all is pretty popular now days. I think it's much more healthy to gain different perspectives of various religions and "test the waters" to see what works for you.
And yeah hard atheism can become annoying or at least should I say, some of the philosophies and zealots in it?
|
|
|
Post by sin on Nov 21, 2011 18:14:35 GMT -6
I'm familiar with what you are talking about, a friend of mine goes through this with his 'peers' all the time. They figure if he keeps changing from this or that, that inconsistency is suspect. They mostly just make fun of it, and he talks to me about more serious topics or if he has a crisis of faith. I am a minister after all. I think if a person gets what they need out of a religion or philosophy, its healthy. It's when that religion or philosophy is damaging to the psyche that it raises my concern.
I could care less if people worship Jesus, Cthulhu or poka-dotted elephants from Kalamazoo. Seriously.
CS
|
|
|
Post by sin on Dec 2, 2011 14:33:31 GMT -6
Update on the Mormons.
So the Mormons persisted so long as my son was willing to talk with them. They came by again, this time when I was home. I answered the door to find (2) girls my son's age, dressed to the hilt (beauties too) and I laughed.
Well hello, you must be the Mormon chix that have my son so enamored!
They giggled.
Dillon! The Mormon chix are here for you!
Dillon goes outside and shuts the door.
When he returned I was giving him a hard time about his dating prowess and now I understood why he was sooooo willing to talk about Mormonism. He admits he can't say no to the girls. He asks me if he can go to the Mormon Church the following week (they would pick him up). Sure I said. Why not?
As the date approached however, he begged me to go with him. He didn't want to be in the big bad Mormon clutches alone. I agreed to go. I even invited a date
The day before, he tells me he doesn't want to go at all. I ask him why? He seemed so interested before? [facetiously]
He goes on a rant about not being ready for religion, or figuring out what he believes in. I just nodded in agreement, I mean it wasn't as if I were pressuring him. I asked him why he felt pressured?
Those Mormon chicks were hot, and pushy!
He asks me to handle it.
We talk about the tactics used by organizations onto the consumer, and essentially that's what he has to deal with. I gave him some pointers and reminded him I'll not always be around to handle things for him.
The day of, he informs me that he took care of it via text-convo with the girl arranged to pick him up. They were sorry to hear he wasn't ready, but they wouldn't push any further. He felt relieved.
I was kind of bummed, I was looking forward to stalking my teenager from the back row of The Mormon Church.
CS
|
|
|
Post by sin on Dec 7, 2011 7:19:57 GMT -6
|
|