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Post by lokidreaming on Jun 14, 2011 22:15:35 GMT -6
When referring to the "Lesser Gods", I am assuming it is referring to the "Elder Gods" and could also refer to other gods/deities in other belief systems?
Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by sin on Jun 15, 2011 8:27:07 GMT -6
This is among the topics I'm compiling for the Grotto handbook. It does get rather confusing, if people are not familiar with ALL of the mythos content, to include contributions from other mythos writers. In the handbook, I have broken it out by Old Ones, Elder Things, and Lesser Gods. To include which writer contributed what, and the reference stories.
It also includes a paper on what constitutes the 'Mythos', what stories specifically would be considered mythos-related.
For example, August Dereleth, coined the phrase "Cthulhu Mythos", and these stories are considered to be mythos-proper (as written by HP Lovecraft):
Cthulhu-related stories by Lovecraft himself are listed here, along with their first publication date:
The Nameless City (1921, November, The Wolverine, No. 11) The Festival (1925, January, Weird Tales, 5, No. 1) The Colour Out of Space (1927, September, Amazing Stories, Vol. 2, No. 6) The Call of Cthulhu (1928, February, Weird Tales, 11, No. 2) The Dunwich Horror (1929, April, Weird Tales, 13, No. 4) The Whisperer in Darkness (1931, August, Weird Tales, 18, No. 1) The Dreams in the Witch-House (1933, July, Weird Tales, 22, No. 1) At the Mountains of Madness (1936, February–April, Astounding Stories, 16, No. 6 - 17, No. 2) The Shadow Over Innsmouth (1936, The Shadow over Innsmouth, Visionary Publishing Co.) The Shadow Out of Time (1936, June, Astounding Stories, 17, No. 4) The Haunter of the Dark (1936, December, Weird Tales, 28, No. 5) The Thing on the Doorstep (1937, January, Weird Tales, 29, No. 1) The Case of Charles Dexter Ward (published posthumously in 1941, May & July, Weird Tales, 35, Nos. 9 & 10; written in 1927)
However, when perusing other stories authored by him, you can see connections which could be made, bringing them into the mythos cycle (as per personal interpretation and usage of metaphor and allegory).
I found Daniel Harms books useful, in terms of sorting out which authors contributed what specifically, without having to read ALL of the mythos writing. My personal preference is to work within the confines of Lovecraft's writing, but remain aware of other mythos contributions.
2008 - The Cthulhu Mythos Encyclopedia: A Guide to H.P. Lovecraft's Universe (Updated & Expanded Third Edition) Elder Signs Press ISBN 1-934501-04-2 (Hardcover), ISBN 1-934501-05-0 (Trade Paperback).
I listened to the interview on the Ooze Radio Show, and he does comment that the 2008 edition does exclude some content from earlier editions. He feels this is the most extensive version, but comments that you may want to obtain earlier editions to have the full gambit.
I have both the 1998 and 2008 editions. I find them to be a valuable resource.
Refer to stories such as, At the Mountains of Madness. You will see clear references to the Old Ones, which were banished to a dimension outside the span of human reach, thus considered extinct. It was the Shoggoths which used the sorcery they were taught against the Old Ones. Human beings, were just a bi-product used by the Shoggoths to use as slaves, or play-things as it were. These Shoggoths, are considered to be "Lesser Gods' in that they are emanations from the Old Ones. It really depends on the writer. So then a dichotomy is created (and I believe August Dereleth to have been the most influential in this area) making 'Lesser Gods' vs. 'Elder Gods'.
Any god-form in use by man, is thus an emanation of the Old Ones, making them 'Lesser' than the 'Elder' which created all things, they are the universe itself, all matter, energy, light, etc. Until the fabric of material reality can be torn away, the A:O will remain out of our reach, even if we have momentary contact in our lifetimes through avenues such as dreaming, intercession (i.e. Nyarlathothep), or sorcery. Until man can realize the false reality which keeps him separated from that which has created him, he will remain trapped in this prison. It is the very reason that Sorcery is pinnacle in cultist practice.
I hope that gives you a deeper level of understanding.
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Post by lokidreaming on Jun 22, 2011 4:04:42 GMT -6
@cora'Sahn,
Cheers for this.
Belief IS Reality Loki Dreaming
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Post by Timotheus Prophet of Darkness on Jun 24, 2011 18:08:49 GMT -6
I have been a follower of the Cthulhu Mythos since i was ten and i'm 38 now and still gets confusing
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Post by sin on Jun 29, 2011 12:11:26 GMT -6
That whole Al Hazred thing, messed with my head for a while. You just have to hunker down and re-read the Lovecraft tales, and then its all Ooooohhh yeaaaaah, duh!
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Post by Yath'khiron666 on Jun 9, 2012 3:44:20 GMT -6
@cora'Sahn Thanks for info. For example, August Dereleth, coined the phrase "Cthulhu Mythos", and these stories are considered to be mythos-proper (as written by HP Lovecraft): Cthulhu-related stories by Lovecraft himself are listed here, along with their first publication date: The Nameless City (1921, November, The Wolverine, No. 11) The Festival (1925, January, Weird Tales, 5, No. 1) The Colour Out of Space (1927, September, Amazing Stories, Vol. 2, No. 6) The Call of Cthulhu (1928, February, Weird Tales, 11, No. 2) The Dunwich Horror (1929, April, Weird Tales, 13, No. 4) The Whisperer in Darkness (1931, August, Weird Tales, 18, No. 1) The Dreams in the Witch-House (1933, July, Weird Tales, 22, No. 1) At the Mountains of Madness (1936, February–April, Astounding Stories, 16, No. 6 - 17, No. 2) The Shadow Over Innsmouth (1936, The Shadow over Innsmouth, Visionary Publishing Co.) The Shadow Out of Time (1936, June, Astounding Stories, 17, No. 4) The Haunter of the Dark (1936, December, Weird Tales, 28, No. 5) The Thing on the Doorstep (1937, January, Weird Tales, 29, No. 1) The Case of Charles Dexter Ward (published posthumously in 1941, May & July, Weird Tales, 35, Nos. 9 & 10; written in 1927) Cthulhu-related stories by Lovecraft himself as listed by Cora'Sahn , but with their date written: 01 - The Nameless City (Jan 1921) - Short Story 02 - The Festival (Oct 1923) - Short Story 03 - The Call of Cthulhu (Aug-Sep 1926) - Short Story 04 - The Case of Charles Dexter Ward (Jan-1 Mar 1927) - Novel 05 - The Colour Out of Space(Mar 1927) - Short Story 06 - The Dunwich Horror (Aug 1928) - Short Story 07 - The Whisperer in Darkness (24 Feb-26 Sep 1930) - Short Story 08 - At the Mountains of Madness (24 Feb-22 Mar 1931) - Novella 09 - The Shadow Over Innsmouth (Nov-Dec 1931) - Novella 10 - The Dreams in the Witch House (Feb 1932) - Short Story 11 - The Thing on the Doorstep (21-24 Aug 1933) - Short Story 12 - The Shadow Out of Time (10 Nov 1934- 22 Feb 1935) - Novella 13 - The Haunter of the Dark (5-9 Nov 1935) - Short Story Hope this help's others "Iä! Iä! Cthulhu fhtagn!"
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Post by Kai'zen on Jun 21, 2012 0:18:09 GMT -6
[teal]The named Elder Gods are Bast, Hypnos and Nodens, so I take it to more or less mean those ancient Greek, Roman, Egyptian, etcetera gods, who are dead people, or dead meme's, rather than the Old Ones, which are psychological phenomena, abstract concepts personified, atavism's and the like.
The way I see it;
Lesser Gods; LaVey's "worship by proxy" Old Ones; Elements of self
Though that is more of a generalized feeling i get from them than an actual definition.[/teal]
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Post by sin on Jul 25, 2012 14:21:13 GMT -6
[teal]The named Elder Gods are Bast, Hypnos and Nodens, so I take it to more or less mean those ancient Greek, Roman, Egyptian, etcetera gods, who are dead people, or dead meme's, rather than the Old Ones, which are psychological phenomena, abstract concepts personified, atavism's and the like. The way I see it; Lesser Gods; LaVey's "worship by proxy" Old Ones; Elements of self Though that is more of a generalized feeling i get from them than an actual definition.[/teal]
This is an excellent way to conceptualize it, and a very astute observation.
Exalt!
CS
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Kai'Sigth
Adeptus
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 32
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Sept 11, 2012 17:32:25 GMT -6
[teal]The named Elder Gods are Bast, Hypnos and Nodens, so I take it to more or less mean those ancient Greek, Roman, Egyptian, etcetera gods, who are dead people, or dead meme's, rather than the Old Ones, which are psychological phenomena, abstract concepts personified, atavism's and the like. The way I see it; Lesser Gods; LaVey's "worship by proxy" Old Ones; Elements of self Though that is more of a generalized feeling i get from them than an actual definition.[/teal] Wow, that's an excellent way to look at it and one I shall not forget. It's pretty difficult for me to explain just what the Great Old Ones are to somebody outside of the loop. The abstract idea of The Great Old Ones that I hold on to can be a little confusing to somebody who doesn't share a Cultist mindset. To me The Great Old Ones both simultaneously exist and don't exist, they are a concept so alien to our perspective and limited mindset that they are almost impossible to grasp. They are a higher form of evolution and cognisance, a supreme state of consciousness that we strive to achieve through the Work. To see them as elements of the Self is a perfect concept. Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn! Kai'Sigth
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