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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 17, 2008 20:22:14 GMT -6
i filed for non-profit status tonight.
that means the Cult of Cthulhu will soon have certain benefits. for instance, we will be eligible for tax exempt status, be able to accept public and private grants, be able to receive federal tax deductible charitable donations, possible exemption of property tax (for when we start building brick and mortar temples), the CoC will be a separate and legal entity which will protect assets, limit liability and make sure that the CoC will survive after the death of my flesh. oh and best of all... a discount on stamps! Ia Ia Cthulhu fatagn!!! ;D
all kidding aside, the Cult of Cthulhu Inc. will become a full fledged non-profit corporation in about a month's time when all the paperwork is finished. not only will the above advantages assist our Great Work, but the symbolic nature of the act is also important. for any who misguidedly believe the CoC is a fad, a game, a scam, or a joke... well, this should cement our religion's legitimacy.
the further we infect reality, the more substantial our vision becomes.
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Nov 17, 2008 21:36:33 GMT -6
That is probaly some of the best news I have heard in awhile. One step closer to being able to have our own churches. I hate using the word church! Temples of Cthulhu will be abound in the near future. Though we are of Chaos, we must be lawful evil (by DnD standards) to win the corporeal world over.
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Post by astennoth on Nov 18, 2008 0:18:43 GMT -6
Very good news for the Cult!
IA IA CTHULHU FHTAGN!
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Post by Yevathik on Nov 18, 2008 2:22:45 GMT -6
Wow. This is like, serious business now.
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Madguten
Moderator
CoC forum moderator
Woe, to he who hears the howling
Posts: 2,785
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Post by Madguten on Nov 18, 2008 8:38:00 GMT -6
IA! IA! KTULU FTAGN!
Hail the Cult of Cthulhu!
Great news!
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 18, 2008 12:01:32 GMT -6
yes, indeed...
VS
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Post by fahy92 on Nov 18, 2008 20:27:03 GMT -6
Hell yes ;D
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Post by sin on Nov 19, 2008 9:36:49 GMT -6
VS,
Did you want to hash out our discussion here, for the benefit of the group - or continue via private message?
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 19, 2008 12:49:12 GMT -6
yes, that sounds good.
i just got off the phone with legalzoom.com because i wanted more information. apparently, i need not only 3 Officers: President, Secretary, and Treasurer (President and Secretary should not be the same person), but i also need 3 Board of Directors. the Board of Directors need to be living in the US and i'll need an address for them. the Officers don't have to be United States citizens or be living in the U.S. it should go without saying that every legal representative of Cult of Cthulhu Inc. should be at least 18 years of age.
from what i understand, the Officers run the day-to-day aspects of the non-profit. however, the meaning behind those titles are kind of vague and unspecified. so, a Treasurer would handle the corporate money. the Secretary would handle micro-managing areas (little things that need attention), and the President would handle the "big picture" macro-management of the corporation.
according to Wikipedia, "A board of directors is a body of elected or appointed persons who jointly oversee the activities of a company or organization."
so there you have it. i am more than comfortable being one of the Board of Directors, as well as, taking on the Office of President and Treasurer (can't be Secretary as well, which is why i've offered it to Madguten and i'm asking if Cora'Sahn is she's interested in being Treasurer).
if Madguten agrees to be Secretary, that makes 2 American Board of Directors that i absolutely need other people for. but if Madguten and Cora'Sahn don't want to fill those Officer roles, i understand and will be happy for others to apply.
make sense? just let me know if something needs clarification. Cora'Sahn, if you want to talk about the pros and cons of forming a non-profit corporation in the first place, you can do that in this thread as well.
VS
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Post by sin on Nov 19, 2008 14:39:42 GMT -6
Have served on the Board of Directors for 4 years, and 1 as Corporate President for a 501(3)c non-profit - I am aware of non-profit protocols and have an extensive background in non-profit organizations; however I would like for you to outline to me, my position and responsibilities.
The regular board meetings that may be required of me, may not be something I have the time for but want to make that determination once receiving the outline from you as Treasurer.
This isn't something that can be done willy-nilly in order to accomplish the goals of the COC. I want to make sure I'm fully aware of expectations in this role, before making a decision.
Side Note: Thank you for the vote of confidence.
Cora'Sahn
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 19, 2008 15:35:13 GMT -6
i thought i posted something about the ongoing discussion on my blog at: www.myspace.com/vengersatanis
oh well, must have not hit the "post" button. anyways, check it out if your curious.wow, that's a whole lot more experience than i have. one of the reasons i thought you'd make a good Treasurer. i assume board meetings will not be more frequent than quarterly or less frequent than annually. i don't want to over-burden either of us.
you mentioned a business plan in that other email. yes, i think we will eventually need one of those. since you have more experience than i do, that's something we could work on together.
after talking with a legalzoom.com representative, the Board of Directors have more power than i thought. they have authority over the Officers. some states allow for a single Director, Wisconsin does not. so this worrying thought came to mind... what if some suddenly disgruntled Board members decided to "vote me off the island"? even if the possibility is remote, i don't want to chance being deposed because a few Directors have a grudge. would there be a way of creating a contract/agreement/protocol which would guarantee a President's term? i assume that something to that effect can be arranged.
as long as we're talking about all of this and you seem to have strong views on the subject... please share your thoughts. what, in your opinion, are the pros and cons of other models? what other possible entity could the Cult of Cthulhu become? i know money is important, but i don't want to lose direction like many organizations do. i don't want to be focusing on merchandising, ring tones, and membership fees when i could be focusing on exploring the black depths of reality!
every opinion welcome. let's get all our cards on the table.
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 19, 2008 16:37:15 GMT -6
ok, just got off the phone with Legal Zoom again (glad i'm not paying an attorney by the hour for all this info!), and apparently, i'll get a disc with template in the mail to design the Cult's bylaws. after everyone agrees and signs off on that, it becomes our binding contract determining how we do business, manage ourselves, decide things, etc.
so, i'll be putting something about a lengthy term of Presidency for myself in the bylaws. hopefully, no one sees a problem with this.
VS
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Nov 19, 2008 16:46:27 GMT -6
This is awsome.. everyone knows it will be corprations that rule the world and not government! This is the fist step in becomeing a world power of sorts, if you look at it from the corpration run world POV.
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Post by Yevathik on Nov 19, 2008 18:30:03 GMT -6
Not an american citizen, so I can't help you with this part. Still, this is a good first step. Esbara'kesh is right. If we can control the corporate world, we're not far from the political world. Now all we need is to own a bank or two and we'll really be in business. The irony at the end of all this of course is that money will be worthless once the Old Ones show up anyway.
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Post by sin on Nov 20, 2008 9:21:34 GMT -6
My main concerns are as follows:
1) Tax-exempt status 2) Limited power, limited influence 3) Restrictions on Private Interest 4) "Charitable" status
Exemption Requirements
To be tax-exempt under section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code, an organization must be organized and operated exclusively for exempt purposes set forth in section 501(c)(3), and none of its earnings may inure to any private shareholder or individual. In addition, it may not be an action organization, i.e., it may not attempt to influence legislation as a substantial part of its activities and it may not participate in any campaign activity for or against political candidates.
Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are commonly referred to as charitable organizations. Organizations described in section 501(c)(3), other than testing for public safety organizations, are eligible to receive tax-deductible contributions in accordance with Code section 170.
The organization must not be organized or operated for the benefit of private interests, and no part of a section 501(c)(3) organization's net earnings may inure to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual. If the organization engages in an excess benefit transaction with a person having substantial influence over the organization, an excise tax may be imposed on the person and any organization managers agreeing to the transaction.
Section 501(c)(3) organizations are restricted in how much political and legislative (lobbying) activities they may conduct. =========================================
I've been here VS, I'm telling you - like I said, its waaaaaay more trouble than it's worth and you are constantly walking on eggshells, so as not to lose your status, and be fined.
Not to mention, this is going to limit your COC aspirations.
Hey, at least I'm not your 'Yes Girl' :-)
As far as the board meetings go, quarterly I can do. With board members in remote areas, chat conference is acceptable as a 'meeting' and we held these on line. You need a Secreatary to keep the board minutes. These can be cut/paste from the chat and formalized as Board Minutes.
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 20, 2008 9:51:26 GMT -6
and i definitely appreciate that. believe me, i do. and i realize this seems like a radical paradigm shift... but is it?
from what i've read, certain jobs within the non-profit, for instance the Officers and employees hired by the corporation, can keep (or be given) earnings as long as it's within reason. if Cult Priests start driving around in Mercedes, then we're probably in trouble. haha. seriously though, i want the CoC to reflect the look, feel, and taste of a bona fide religion. sure, it can't do everything that a for-profit corporation could do, but wouldn't that alter its entire landscape?
i don't want to fall into the Church of Satan pit, eventually making the Cult into a fashionable club for egotistical wankers. the CoC is a religion, damn it.
once we start trying to own banks, become a political animal, or enrich a handful of individuals, the CoC will have lost its way. what is most important? what is our mission statement. if we follow that road, we cannot be misled.
VS
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Post by sin on Nov 20, 2008 10:01:10 GMT -6
I assure you, I'll never be that :-P
It may require deeper analysis on your part. Many times you have stated:
our Great Work is this...
1. Awakening, achieving new states of higher consciousness.
2. altering reality to our designs granting material gain and physical pleasure.
3. to bring the Ancient Ones back so that this world again becomes Theirs. through such influence, we will further develop and our evolution shall be completed.
Couldn't the limitations hinder the COC mission, rather than move it along?
I realize you want to be recognized as a religion, did you know Christianity is still a 'cult' on the books?
Put the COS aside, seriously they are not even worth discussing nor are they a worthy comparison, it's like apples to shoes.
I realize that a salaries are possible, in fact I worked with the non-profit I did, constantly being assured of this for years - not that I was on board for that reason anyway, but it's not easily achieved. Money aside, weigh out the pros and cons.
What do you lose, and what do you gain?
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Post by drageneskonge on Nov 20, 2008 13:31:41 GMT -6
It sounds like there is more offices than persons to fill them. And you do not want to give offices to people that are not members. Let's face it, there are not enough CoC members to do this right now.
This is good advice. When you have legal status is not going to make CoC taken more seriously than it already is. CoC is not taking over the world just because you have some lawful status and can take donations. CoC must take the world over first, then you have not to worry about any paper works!
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Post by sin on Nov 20, 2008 13:36:59 GMT -6
Speaking of a body count. How many official members do we have?
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 20, 2008 14:35:28 GMT -6
yes, this is precisely what i'm trying to determine.
you're right. i don't want to give offices to people who are not members. however, we have approximately 100 official CoC members. about 25 of these live in the United States. it is possible if Cultists are motivated.
i disagree with you there.
unless drastic changes are made, the CoC isn't taking over a god damn thing. do you really think we can move forward while conducting our affairs in the same manner as we have been? i believe it's sink or swim time. we've made some great strides, but where are we going? as long as the CoC belongs to the few, it limps along with fair weather believers who turn their backs when distracted by some nonsense in their mundane lives.
give me a more fruitful alternative, and i will strongly consider it.
VS
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Post by benjamin on Nov 20, 2008 14:55:13 GMT -6
I can honestly say that in principle, I have nothing for or against official NP status. Works for some, doesn't work for others; works for some at different points in their history.
Let me ask VS this: I gather that more than anything else, you are seeking a catalyst for continued action. Correct me if I have that wrong. What about NPS do you see as providing that catalyst?
I agree with VS that all else equal NPS allows a margin of greater credibility. It will scare of a few who are more productive in looser structures, it will attract those who like to know what the plan is at all times, and it will tell some that we are in that class of people who not only get, but complete and submit the paperwork--that is more of a screening-out factor than is apprent only by looking at the actual NPS Corps out there--more anecdotally but also more significantly, are those who gave the forms and knowledge , but they gather dust.
Now, I have my own doubts, related to the BOD and Executives. This is exactly where things move ahead or fail to move ahead once the org is corped and there is never a middle result. I have been on a few BOD's in my time; and it comes down to two things: having the business meetings regularly even if there is no business while in te balance having the sense to never, never invent business just because there has been a long train of short agendas. On the one hand, it is impossible to jumpstart a committee to ONLY meet when it is suddenly needed. For one thing, that means that whatever the situation is, it has already evolved to the point where a need for action is seen; so the timing is NEVER right to jumpstart a dormant BOD. So only a BOD that meets regularly will be a lot less disrupted and repsonsive than a dormant BOD. So that means the discipline to do something regualrly that will be slightly boring most of the time. The BOD/Exec is also exactly where politics will always incubate; but a degree of that is inevitable with LHP occultism or any occultism. A well-run BOD can actuall buffer against many kinds of troublemakers; a poorly run BOD gives troublemakers much more opportunity than they would normally have.
Finally, the power-role of theBOD and offices have to be explciit, much as we occultists may like inner-orders and secret inner linings. To function, each director or officer must know wht they are charged to do and what they may do there to get it done--and there must be a well-understood process of consultancy for increasing parameters. Once that is spelled out in theory, the peope, occupying those positions need to really understand and really follow their defined roles; this never runs true to type but if it is largely undrstood and true, deviations can be compensated for.
That is the thing about BOD's--they never function at mediocre quality, even if the effort they undertake appears mediocre to those who do not understand the discipline. That is why I will always argue both for and against them in principle: it lies in knowing the Org about to Corp.
So I am not quite ready to wiegh in pro or con just yet. I want to share my understanding fo why it would eitehr be a good ro bad idea so that we can see how teh particulars apply the generalities here.
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Post by sin on Nov 20, 2008 15:08:24 GMT -6
blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=175158007&blogID=449859190&indicate=1Figured I'd link the Myspace discussion as well. I'm not so concerned about the Board, but putting the right people in the right seats is crucial, or it's destined to fail. I can honestly say, the years I served as a board member there was never a power struggle. I believe it was because the right people were serving the organization, and supported it's mission statement. I have however been involved in other organizations where it's a complete disaster, and its eventual demise. While I may be voicing an opposing opinion, it is with the mission in mind that I do so.
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 20, 2008 15:10:09 GMT -6
thank you for those wise words, Benjamin. i value your experience in these matters.
VS
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 20, 2008 15:13:05 GMT -6
i agree 100% with that.
VS
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Post by iandiabhal on Nov 20, 2008 21:26:58 GMT -6
I am willing to consider throwing my hat in the ring, but I want to carefully read the agreement and bylaws of Incorporation and read the fine print. I want clear definitions of duties and responsibilities to the Cult Corporation.
This is great news though. I have watched the Cult grow, and this is the next logical step.
I will closely be following this thread.
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 21, 2008 0:19:08 GMT -6
hey Ian, long time. thanks for participating in this discussion.
by that, do you mean weighing in on this topic or considering being part of CoC inc., for instance one of the Board of Directors?
if you are simply curious, then i'd be happy to post the bylaws etc. for anyone who is interested, after everything is finalized. however, if you want to be part of it, then there might be a problem. i won't get the forms/templates to create the bylaws until after the paperwork to create the non-profit corporation is filed and processed. and i can't have it filed until i have the names and addresses of those participating.
thanks. i think many people are following this thread. tonight's forum user count is at all-time high.
VS
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Nov 21, 2008 2:25:17 GMT -6
Ia Ia, Cthulhu fhtagn! This is great news. I fully support this mission. As far as I can see, we can only gain from here. Any restrictions that result from non-profit status can be worked around, I'm sure. I'm no expert, but, as a sneaky little bastard, I know that there's always loopholes in the system.
As for important roles in all of this, I will do what I can if it is asked of me (I am somewhat limited by location and such, however).
You have my full support, VS!
Ia Ia!
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 21, 2008 16:51:23 GMT -6
i want to personally thank everyone who participated in this thread and everyone who used alternative methods to contact me about these issues.
it's extremely disheartening to realize that the most inconsequential, vacuous trash like those stupid vampire novels and holiday blockbuster movie (i'd speak it's reprehensible name, but then of course our beloved forum would get inundated by advertisements of such) gets thousands upon thousands of comments by devoted enthusiasts all over cyberspace while the only feedback the CoC can generate is... this.
it's no wonder we're on the losing side of the war. just sad. what can i say except, fuck this world!
VS
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Post by dzepxich on Nov 21, 2008 17:34:04 GMT -6
Due to my not being an actual member of the cult, I've hesitated to voice an opinion about corp. status.
One thing I have noticed in my studies though is that a corp. entity, once formed, behaves much like a person. The corp. has many legal rights in common with an actual person and will soon behave as a "living" being.
Soon after formation, the corp. entity develops an agenda which puts the "survival" and "growth" of the corp. in the primary focus, and the original "mission statement" becomes secondary.
Are you familiar with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs? A corp. will seek to fulfill the lower needs first, the Mission Statement is a "higher" level of functioning, to be applied AFTER the lower needs are met.
I agree that having the right people as officers is critical to the survival and growth of the corp. entity.
It appears to me that some of the people on the forum are quite knowledgeable and experienced in the ways of corps. and the laws, much more than I anyway.
All that being said, I think it would be the coolest thing in the world to see Temples of Cthulhu in cities around the world (New Orleans needs one for sure!)
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Post by Gish on Nov 21, 2008 17:54:54 GMT -6
I'm very inexperienced on how NP organizations work, but if it is possible to get and maintain without too many problems it should be done, it will get more people to take notice of the CoC and from what I've read there are good perks if your in America that might be useful in the future in furthering the development of the CoC as a known religion. That's my input and thoughts on this I will be back in a week, this is my last usage of the internet for that time.
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