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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Mar 22, 2009 19:27:27 GMT -6
being conscious has untold benefits, one of which is being able to survive physical death. indeed. hopefully, it becomes apparent how all the pieces start fitting together.
how or why did i put these disassociated bits of knowledge together years ago when conceiving an actual Cthulhu Cult? was it pure accident or did it manifest by eldritch and infernal design?
VSSo my goal of becomming a life-draining immortal wraith after death isnt too far fetched?
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Post by sin on Mar 23, 2009 9:11:51 GMT -6
basically, yes. although for a few people, there can be freedom while alive. I myself don't live in an emotional state, more of a rational and logical state; however I am capable of being emotional and irrational. I self-examine, constantly - so I'm self-aware. I decide what I am okay with, and what I need to work on. The hell with outside 'advice'. In example, when people say 'Sin, you need to learn Tact.' Oh yea? No, I don't think I do. I don't have time to coddle people and soften the blow of honesty. If someone asks me, 'What did you think of this book?' and I respond with "I didn't like the book, I thought it was dry and uninteresting" - this is when I'm told I need to learn tact. Pffft. Perhaps you need to self-examine and determine why you believe this. I don't think it's possible to exist void of personality, why we would be nothing but uninteresting drones. I admit I had a rather 'Spock-like' personality at one point in time, but how boring to always act from a logical, and unemotional position. Personally, I believe we can only exist in slavery until we can affect culture so much to force change. We can delude ourselves into believing it's 'freedom' we are experiencing but that's the false reality, the illusion. Yes, they are quite useful - however they can also be damaging if you get lost in this idea that you are experiencing true freedom - because you are not.
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 23, 2009 10:34:37 GMT -6
just about everyone favors one center over the other two. this is our comfort zone, whatever is strongest in us. in reading 4th way books, Ouspensky called it Man #1, Man #2, and Man #3.
Man #1 lives in his physical center more than any other. Man #2 lives in his emotional center for the most part. Man #3 favors his intellectual center. these days, perhaps Person #1 or Cultist, Student, Whatever #1 might be more appropriate.
getting back to the point, that's perfectly normal and healthy for you to give preference to your intellectual center, Cora'Sahn. but in this teaching, we must learn to work on all three centers.
yes, self-awareness is great and i think it's an important first step; however, being self-aware is not the same as self-remembering.
while sometimes it is wise to rely only on one's council... considering outside advice is necessary. don't just take my word for it. explore other 4th way teachers and experiment with their findings.
i think saying "I didn't like the book, I thought it was dry and uninteresting" is tactful enough. much better than saying, "whoever wrote this ignorant drivel is a fucking moron". now, that would be really tactless!
i also think it's impossible to exist void of personality. we don't want to eradicate personality. we want it to become more passive... more transparent.
as for Spock, personality is different than emotion. while Spock was more logical than emotional, he still had personality. one could even say that a computer is ruled by personality alone... because it has no essence, no soul. a computer only does what it is programmed to do; just like an ordinary human being.
isn't culture illusory?
Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the spoon. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no spoon.
Neo: There is no spoon?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.
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Post by sin on Mar 23, 2009 11:13:02 GMT -6
"He is freer, he claims, to wander among the mountain in his jail cell than if he were struggling to survive in the day-to-day realities of the outside world. From his perspective, to believe that this physical world is the ultimate reality is to be trapped in the illusion; to be aware of the cosmic mind is to be liberated from the illusion." -About Charles Manson
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Post by sin on Mar 23, 2009 11:40:22 GMT -6
just about everyone favors one center over the other two. this is our comfort zone, whatever is strongest in us. in reading 4th way books, Ouspensky called it Man #1, Man #2, and Man #3.
Man #1 lives in his physical center more than any other. Man #2 lives in his emotional center for the most part. Man #3 favors his intellectual center. these days, perhaps Person #1 or Cultist, Student, Whatever #1 might be more appropriate.
getting back to the point, that's perfectly normal and healthy for you to give preference to your intellectual center, Cora'Sahn. but in this teaching, we must learn to work on all three centers.As I said, though I favor one - I live from all 3 - which is why I used this example, to connect the convo to the Fourth Way. If you are not aware, you can not remember. I think it's a daily practice to self-remember, so you don't forget the behaviors of men 1,2 and 3. This prevents you from repeating certain behaviors - you find unfavorable about yourself. That's what I'm focusing on, what I find unfavorable to myself. I am not concerned with how other people find me (favorable or unfavorable). I do, it's a passion of mine. I don't ever use one source, nor do I take things at face value. I need a deeper examination - which is why I'm annoying the shit out of you with these questions ;-) Well, I've been known to be that blatant as well, and again - it's not my concern, if you don't want my honest opinion - don't ask for it. Yeah, that's right - I think you are a moron! Now what? Oh right, you will piss, moan and cry and call me a mean person [twirls finger in the air] Woopdie do da!
Passive? Transparent? Please elaborate on this a little further, before my head explodes :-) [/b][/color][/quote] Spock developed personality over time, if you recall he was pretty lame and boring, until the crew members pushed him beyond his limits, which is why he develops a more balanced existence. One that includes just the right mix of logic and emotion. A computer and a human are similar in that we can both be programmed but it's apples and oranges. Show me evidence of A.I. and I'll accept that analogy. No culture creates slavery in the first place, and it's very real - it is the very thing we fight to transcend every day. I understand this, hence my focus on making realizations about what needs to be bent, in order for change to occur. To sit here and be passive, transparent and say "there is no culture" is absurd, because we live in it, and are pinned down by it each day. I separate myself from culture as much as I possibly can - but there is no question, I am subject to it's laws. In my reality, if I want to kill my exhusband for just being a royal pain in the ass and a constant annoyance in my life - I would have done that a long time ago without batting an eyelash. Culture/society deems murder 'unethical' and punishable, therefore I am pinned by it. I can decide to say 'Well, this is an illusion I will do what I damn well please' and kill that mutherfucker but, I have to be stealthy in lieu of forensic advancements :-)
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 23, 2009 11:56:10 GMT -6
was that a rebuttal?
either way... yes. yes, i subscribe to that way of thinking. Charles Manson is in good company. many philosophers throughout history from Timothy Leary to Aleister Crowley believed something similar.
i don't think it's necessary to shut out the world completely or utterly renounce materialism, but caution should be taken when interacting with conventional reality.
consciousness is greater than gold.
VS
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Post by jmsn72 on Mar 23, 2009 13:08:50 GMT -6
I am a person 2 and I tend to be centered around emotions and kind of drift to the intellectual center from time to time.But what would it mean to live in the physical center or what are characteristics of it.Forgive me if its a silly question but I have always been told Im not grounded or not the most down to earth.
Please describe person 1.It should probably be obvious to me but for whatever reason it does not register.
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 23, 2009 13:23:37 GMT -6
that's interesting because if you really wanted to exert your will on the world, i would think your first priority would be to control how others see you.
on the contrary, i wish more people would ask questions and/or challenge my viewpoints.
let me think of a good example... say there's a person, Sam, who is going to law school and he has a big test he needs to study for. Sam has a deep seated desire and knack for bringing disparate things together, reconciling differences. it's something Sam was born to do. it comes from the stars, if you will.
Sam is good friends with a loving couple who are just recently having minor problems due to differences of opinion on certain issues. on the eve of Sam's final exam, a divergence in this usually healthy relationship erupts. the couple come to Sam for advice, counseling, and bridging the rift between John and Judy.
for Sam to spend the majority of his time and energy on the couple's relationship problems would be making Sam's essence active and personality passive. if Sam was to spend most of his efforts on studying for his exam, then essence would be passive and personality would be active.
that which is of the world is mostly illusion rather than substance. that which is part of our foundation, that personal truth we feel in our bones is substance rather than illusion.
transparency allows us to see the difference and make the correct choice. when we are transparent, then we can see what's really going on inside of us, inside of our machine. when we are less transparent and more opaque, then it's anybody's guess. our 'I's are separated, unknown, and working of their own accord.
from an ordinary standpoint, studying might be the correct choice. if Sam doesn't study enough, a poor grade might influence his overall grade point average and affect the outcome is his profession in some way.
from a CoC standpoint, reconciling John and Judy is probably the correct choice (assuming there aren't extenuating circumstances not covered in the example). against his rational thoughts and feelings, Sam acts from an inner need, a primal part of his core. Sam leaves his studies so he can mend his friends' relationship. if he didn't, then John and Judy might break up and the outcome of their lives might be negatively affected.
actually, you just proved my point. both a human being and a computer can be programed. however, only humans can go against their programing. man can wake up and become conscious. that is the difference. but before Awakening, we must struggle against our machines, against our sleeping existence.
of course, culture exists just as illusions of all shapes and sizes exist. and yes, our culture defines who we are and our environment. illusions seem very real and because human beings believe their senses, consensual reality can be extremely dangerous. if culture is mass programing, then it is not part of Greater Reality.
yes, there are consequences for our actions. just because an event is correct, appropriate, or subject to a Greater Reality, doesn't mean we are exempt from punishment in the real world.
to live without any kind of rationalization, illusion, or compromise whatsoever can only lead to death. why? because everybody suffers. that's why the universe created us. like they say in poker, 'pick your spots'. a Cthulhu Cultist must walk in two worlds at once, the material and the spiritual.
ia ia,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 23, 2009 13:52:12 GMT -6
i think i am (or was) a bit more Man #2 than #3 as well.
Man #1 would be your typical jock, someone whose identity revolves around athletics. maybe a bouncer, bodybuilder, or some type of thug or police officer who uses the threat of physical force, most likely intimidation by his own physical presence to get what he wants.
Man #4 has found the Work, sees its value, and begins to struggle against the world, against life...
according to 4th way, the first way is the way of the fakir, total physical self-control. the second way is the way of the monk, total emotional self-control. the third way is the way of the yogi, total mind self-control. the 4th way attempts to gain total self-control over the physical, emotional, and intellectual centers all at the same time.
VS
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Mar 23, 2009 19:29:52 GMT -6
I tend to be the #2 guy by nature. In fact, I would consider myself very monk-like.. a mad-monk, but still a monk. But I am trying very hard to be guy #4.
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Post by jmsn72 on Mar 24, 2009 3:57:10 GMT -6
let me think of a good example... say there's a person, Sam, who is going to law school and he has a big test he needs to study for. Sam has a deep seated desire and knack for bringing disparate things together, reconciling differences. it's something Sam was born to do. it comes from the stars, if you will.
Sam is good friends with a loving couple who are just recently having minor problems due to differences of opinion on certain issues. on the eve of Sam's final exam, a divergence in this usually healthy relationship erupts. the couple come to Sam for advice, counseling, and bridging the rift between John and Judy.
for Sam to spend the majority of his time and energy on the couple's relationship problems would be making Sam's essence active and personality passive. if Sam was to spend most of his efforts on studying for his exam, then essence would be passive and personality would be active.
that which is of the world is mostly illusion rather than substance. that which is part of our foundation, that personal truth we feel in our bones is substance rather than illusion.
transparency allows us to see the difference and make the correct choice. when we are transparent, then we can see what's really going on inside of us, inside of our machine. when we are less transparent and more opaque, then it's anybody's guess. our 'I's are separated, unknown, and working of their own accord.
from an ordinary standpoint, studying might be the correct choice. if Sam doesn't study enough, a poor grade might influence his overall grade point average and affect the outcome is his profession in some way.
from a CoC standpoint, reconciling John and Judy is probably the correct choice (assuming there aren't extenuating circumstances not covered in the example). against his rational thoughts and feelings, Sam acts from an inner need, a primal part of his core. Sam leaves his studies so he can mend his friends' relationship. if he didn't, then John and Judy might break up and the outcome of their lives might be negatively affected. Sam's true will would therefore be a reflection of his true essence which reconciles people's difference.In effect he is partially close to being awake when engaging such tasks as his true self shines through his being. Sam studying for an exam is not truly an act reflecting his essence or true will making it a mechanical act.Sam is asleep while doing this as his true self is not active,he is going through the motions like a machine and thus he is in slumber.Self remembering does not occur as he is detached from his essence...possibly. Did I get this straight? I am fairly certain many of us do what we don't want to do out of need.Working sleep inducing jobs and going through other motions.Part of self remembering then is finding the task in which reflects the true essence or self then?Once that task is found a person can actively connect right? My only question is this-is it possible for a being to have an essence destructive in nature? Lets say I feel most alive when getting rid of things or discarding them and in effect minimizing and making a space as clear as possible and making things more efficient;could this be called destructive or constructive?Is it just delusional I's or is my purpose to annihilate clutter...or is this simply for me to determine.I would think the later but could there be essences out there meant to kill and hurt?Out of curiosity I ask. I will assume the AO aren't at the core of everyone (although I'd certainly like it to be the core of my being)and some sorry souls are essences of the Lesser Gods or am I far fetched?
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Post by sin on Mar 24, 2009 8:37:26 GMT -6
It depends, you see I take great pride in doing things for myself, by myself - if I need to move a pawn around to sack the castle - then yeah, glamor is useful, but not very often my first priority.
For the most part, people love to hate me - and it works for me. It lights a fire under their asses to 'one-up' me - and that drives them to put them exactly where I want them - to either A)serve as a puppet to do my biding, or B) a jester in my court to entertain me. Either way, it's useful - when I need it; however I don't often 'need' it.
Cool. You must have the patience of a saint. Most people would have told me to shut up and move on already :-)
I dunno. Seems to me, that Sam is deluding himself into believing he's serving a 'need' (his gift from the stars) so he sacrifices his exam to help these friends out. A) He's putting others before himself B) He's sacrificing success in testing to achieve his ultimate goal, and C) He's sacrificing his 'identity' for some greater purpose? What is that exactly? To put others before yourself? To be Doctor Save a Ho? I mean, it's Sam's Ego that places him in a position to believe only he can 'help' these people mend their relationship. That's self-elevating, but at what cost? In the long-run he suffers and continues to feed the universe. What about a wider perspective? The butterfly effect? What he does today, submitting to compulsions (to help) may affect his success in the future.
Ok, I get your point.
In essence, we are fighting each day to become unplugged from the master program, the master slave. I'm reminded of Nietzsche's idea of slave morality.
Then what is it all for? Like I said, we are just deluding ourselves into believing we are free. I want to affect the 'real world' - and release myself from the grid. I didn't sign up for this shit, I was born into it. We all were. We are born into slavery. Society has no right to apply it's morality on to each person, nor 'punish' each person for following their own personal morality.
We need to be kept 'in order' because we have admitted a long time ago, that we are incapable. We need our behavior policed. All this is a lie, it's such nonsense. We are slaves. Even awakened people would identify slavery in the 'real world'. Just another philosophy to aid us in coping with our servitude.
[/b][/color][/quote]
and even then, the cultist is a slave, but in both worlds and more widely aware of that slave mentality.
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 24, 2009 10:50:59 GMT -6
yeah, you got it. it would certainly make Awakening easier. some may have multiple purposes, this area is not an exact science. however, don't forget about the other 4th way techniques.self-destructive? no, i don't believe so. anything self-destructive can be attributed to negativity, negative emotions... expressing and indulging them.
i think eliminating clutter is neither destructive nor constructive, but it does sound like an essential part of yourself. dwell on this; turn it over in your mind. eventually, an answer will come to you. just call me Saint Venger. hahaha!ok, that's one interpretation... any other opinions? i'd love to hear everyone's thoughts! this is one of those places that widely diverges from Satanism.
A. yes, he is putting others above himself, but Sam is also utilizing his own destiny.
B. yes, according to the Work, achieving a personal (and ultimate) goal is better than serving/achieving other goals.
C. Sam is sacrificing his false identity, which according to the Work, is a necessary sacrifice.
there is a lot of suffering we bring on ourselves, suffering that we allow to inconvenience us. In that example, Sam intentionally suffers so that he will escape even more superficial suffering. it isn't easy to live deliberately.as Awake versus asleep, there is also a middle ground between slavery and freedom. we can at least become more free than we currently are. yes, it does sound impossible to escape... gloom and doom. the chips are definitely stacked against us. yet, there is hope. a sliver of possibility does exist. change is possible! maybe not now, but eventually.
it has taken me over a decade of struggle to get where i am today (without a mentor, only having books as my guide). i can see the change in myself, new dimensions of consciousness, vistas of the unknown opening up... so i see it as my destiny to not only spread this teaching, but serve as an example of Man #5.
man number 5: A person who has "awakened", who supposedly can understand himself without distortion or subjectivity. It is claimed that a man number 5 also has paranormal abilities but these are never spoken of.
fourthwaycult.net/glossary.html
ia ia
I AM The Way
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Post by jmsn72 on Mar 24, 2009 12:57:35 GMT -6
Recurrence would definitely explain deja vu and moments where I know what is going to happen.I can deliberately do something different or outside the loop because there are rare moment when you know whats coming and see like two paths at once (hard to explain...very).I was just reminded of this looking at the glossary of terms.
Technically Sam putting their relationships above others is not causing him pain and is putting himself first if you look at it.He is putting the quality of thier relationship above his superficial self or personality. Our goal is not to find the true personality (there are too many of those already...some real characters I assure you) but to find the essence which Sam does as he works out thier relationship.
A relationship is deeper than superficial mechanics and Samns ability to manipulate it in that it works is the nature of his essence.In this case part of his true self then is creating harmony from discord.At least as a general idea.
Our buddy Sam may in his sleep inducing studies find something awakened inside him if he studied for something like design.Perhaps later on he picks up a knack for..I dunno ,interior decorating (famous designers in NY get paid thousands upon thousands if not millions to decorate some rich schmuck's pad...check out any design magazine) or maybe something else that incorporates making harmony out of something chaotic.
Now I could be taking a long jump here...a very long jump in assuming reconciling differences can fit under creating harmony out of discord.
Anyone would be deluding themselves in believing we are free.A little more free is better than totally enslaved though.
But lets look at society.Although it enslaves it is in some effect a free entity.It is free to impose its rules on us and dictate our fates.It is far more freer than us who suffer under it.It's tendency to enslave us is not just a result ,its a society's responsibility (that was given to it by its freedom to impose) to enslave us.Just as we if truly free would impose our wills and make it our responsibility to oppress or destroy anything in our way.
Of course let us not paint society as the freest entity,it is not.It is freer than the individual but there are things greater than it which are more freer.
Its a hierarchy of power.Because society is larger than we individuals,society will see its freedom and function and exercise its force before we as individuals.On the hierarchy I would assume the world is on top,continents,nations,societies/cultures (its arguable which one is stronger but it varies from region to region),sub-cultures/ethnicities/gender (once again arguable and varies from region to region),individuals. The needs of the many will always outweigh the needs of the few and the flow will move as such.To have some great impact on society or a nation is not impossible but it is a fish swimming up a waterfall.All men and women who did it made hefty sacrifices.Theres no way your gonna be able to just awaken some true power and just all of a sudden dominate or there's no way your going to express your desires freely and just be met with no consequences.It's just not happening,lets be real.It all depends on what kinda freedom you seek.I can assure anarchy would never and never does work.A pecking order returns and we wind back up to where we are now!
A man can sit in a prison cell with a book and be more free than a group of people who can do whatever they want.Do you seek physical freedom or freedom of mind?If its freedom of body,good luck,there's no chance that'll ever be a reality in this world.Even nations without rules follow some kind of order such as brutality and rape against the weak,would that be any better than a world with rules?At least freedom of mind can offer some peace of mind.Im not sure why I ranted this in the first place but what this is all for is freedom of mind and spirit if you will.
If you gaze at the shackles long enough,you will see that some of the chains that bind your mind at some point originate in your mind.If its just freedom to physically do what you want that you seek,may I advise a re-assessment of self assuming there is more to self than just a body (least in my mind there is).Being enslaved to the flesh is still enslavement even if you could exercise your will upon others freely.Sorry for the rant,hope this was not unproductive.
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Post by sin on Mar 24, 2009 13:43:19 GMT -6
A man can sit in a prison cell with a book and be more free than a group of people who can do whatever they want.Do you seek physical freedom or freedom of mind? My mind is pretty free, it's not enslaved by slave morality but my physical body is - yes. It's not to say that I can't expand upon my own thought freedom- I don't think you can ever have enough encouragement in that area.
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 24, 2009 18:14:04 GMT -6
while it might have gone off topic a little, your rant was most welcome. thanks for participating in the discussion, Jameson.
your mind is free from slave morality, but is it free from itself? every mind, no matter how outre or iconoclastic, has certain patterns, features, barriers, blocks, and blind spots. these impediments make it difficult to be Awake. i'm certain that you are ahead of the curve (or would that be ahead of the herd?), but there's still a long way to go if you want to be conscious in the Fourth Way sense of the word.
VS
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Post by sin on Mar 25, 2009 10:19:04 GMT -6
while it might have gone off topic a little, your rant was most welcome. thanks for participating in the discussion, Jameson. your mind is free from slave morality, but is it free from itself? every mind, no matter how outre or iconoclastic, has certain patterns, features, barriers, blocks, and blind spots. these impediments make it difficult to be Awake. i'm certain that you are ahead of the curve (or would that be ahead of the herd?), but there's still a long way to go if you want to be conscious in the Fourth Way sense of the word.
VS
How would one test their level of "Fourth Way Consciousness" ?
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 25, 2009 11:46:01 GMT -6
that is an excellent question! one has to be able to see their own results. from the eyes of the sleeple, a conscious person may not look any different... although, an undefinable quality should be noticeable by sensitive individuals. that means, we must gauge our own level of consciousness. of course, those of a higher tier or degree of Awakenedness will be able to perceive the progress made.
so, what results should one look for / expect? at first, it's all internal change. you will feel different, view things in a new way, be less controlled by universal thoughts, emotions, and movements / physical states.
eventually, external changes will follow. you will make better decisions because you'll see options that were not there before. you will be able to do. making superior decisions and being able to follow through will drastically improve your life. you'll no longer be under the law of accident, but will exist under the law of destiny and fate.
VS
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Post by jmsn72 on Mar 25, 2009 21:55:50 GMT -6
So then it would probably be like an unimaginable clarity that has to only be experienced to be understood...maybe?I say unimaginable because I am still very much asleep and only if I were awake could I imagine (though I can visualize clarity).
Regardless,Im inspired to give it a go.
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 28, 2009 11:24:41 GMT -6
yes. that is good.
what must i do, Cultists? how am i to reach you? to make you understand the power, the freedom, and the dangers? i almost feel tempted to lock all the other threads in the entire forum except this one. why, you may ask? because what is being discussed here is of the utmost importance. this is the heart of our Cthulhu Cult. those who do not understand the Work will not achieve their highest goals. all is for nothing if we are not Awake.
Liber A:O, (while i hope that most of the active forum users have read it) is not the totality of this teaching, but i hope it will raise certain questions that will lead us deeper into what the Work is about. in my estimation, everyone should be commenting, everyone should be asking questions, and everyone should be posting their results (or lack thereof).
this is your school. consider, for a moment, if the CoC was not here. what then? would any of us have a chance to escape our prison? would any, save for a small handful of individuals, realize that we are imprisoned in the first place? how the Fourth Way interacts with the Cult's paradigm should be an all-consuming fascination. i look around and ask myself, "where is the obsession?"
perhaps the blame must fall to me, and i have failed as a teacher... time will tell. regardless, i urge you now to consider how the way connects with every moment, every atom, every fragment of this reality and beyond.
ia ia,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by jmsn72 on Mar 28, 2009 13:26:59 GMT -6
Would I be correct in thinking that one of the first steps to awareness would be awareness of one's bodily functions.For example,recognizing that you are breathing perhaps.Generally in other schools of esoteric thought,the mind can not be silenced unless one realizes that one is breathing. Could I also assume that paying attention to one's body's proprioception may help as well?Proprioception is the ability of the mind to realize where parts of the body are in relation to another.Usually we take it for granted,for example if you were told to touch your nose,you could do so almost automatically without thinking about where your nose is unless you are pass out drunk.In short being aware of where parts of one's body are in space and where they are in relation to one another. Could I then term the awakening exercizes to some degree mental proprioception or mental kinaesthesia?I use this term because instead of knowing where body parts are in relation to one another or how body parts move in relation to one another, one is monitoring how one's emotions and more rational side interacts with one's perception of thier surrounding and attempting to understand why.Also where the I's are in relation to other I's. My final question deals with a vernacular termed "E-Prime". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Prime -This is brief and not as much detailed as what I had read many years ago but it's a generalized version.Basically one uses "to do " rather than "to be" terms such as "I am,you are,we are, ____will be, " etc.Could E-prime be a valuable tool to self awareness?What are your thoughts on E-Prime,could it work or are there flaws in this method of addressing things? To reiterate on E-prime some more-an example. Lets say somebody say "I am mad".The problem is that they at that moment engage in the act of defining their selves in their entirety as mad.This may not in any way reflect their true self. Now let's use "I feel mad" as a substitute.One recognizes that anger is in fact a feeling and the entirety of themselves. One distances the act from their true self or real being and recognizes actions as just that.This distance or separation is requisite in my opinion to recognizing what is self and what is noise. What are your thoughts.
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Post by Narlool L'Pah on Mar 28, 2009 16:06:32 GMT -6
Okay, I haven't really contributed to the thread for two reasons:
* I haven't read AO yet. Yesterday I just sent Venger a money order to buy a copy. I have the pdf...but to be honest I can't stand reading pdfs like a book on the computer screen. Call me old school.
*I've been waiting for the others to engage.
VS,
I wonder do some people need to have an experience that forces them to awaken? Like being bashed by a group of thugs etc? Or have all those closest to you betray you?
Do some people need to be rudely awakened from their fluffy existence by something pretty shitty happening to them?
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 29, 2009 13:42:32 GMT -6
you should take note of physical awareness, as well as, emotional and intellectual awareness. each of these centers can be viewed separately and observed.
sure, go ahead and monitor how one thing is in relation to another, but there's no need to take it so far that one makes a science out of it. all must be in the pursuit of a higher state of consciousness.
the E-Prime stuff was interesting. it's wise to keep one's distance so that one doesn't become identified with something observed, something inside of us, or some part of reality. i think it would be awfully difficult to constantly write or speak in E-Prime though. one could even go further and say, "my machine believes that apple is red" or "my machine feels disappointed because my machine no longer works at Walmart."
however, when performing magic, one might want to do the reverse. our affect on the universe stems from belief. if i believe the apple is red, then my consciousness puts pressure on the universe. the ritual chamber, even if it's only a ritual chamber in one's head, must contain all things and nothing simultaneously.
that doesn't mean everyone will suddenly view the apple as red, but reality can be subtly influenced through belief-systems. Neuro-Linguistic Programing is the rational view of this phenomenon, but there's more at work here which less skeptical minds can appreciate... sorcery!
VS
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 29, 2009 13:54:51 GMT -6
that's perfectly fine, except that...
1. one doesn't need a text in order to start learning the Work.
2. there's plenty of Fourth Way material already on the net; enough to familiarize yourself with the basics.
3. others are probably waiting for you to engage first.
i think such experiences are useful, but i don't think they are necessary. obviously, one must find some kind of dissatisfaction with life. if everything was hunky dory every minute of every day, then why struggle to change things? luckily (if i can call it luck in some sick use of the word), all people suffer; so there is always a reason to be dissatisfied with our existence. but instead of complaining, there is the possibility of doing something constructive.
throughout human history, the greatest men have met with extraordinary challenges which changed them. bad things happen to all of us, but only a few use their adversity to evolve.
VS
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Post by Narlool L'Pah on Mar 30, 2009 1:24:18 GMT -6
The 4th way is effectively what the Buddha teaches.
I know that some here aren't that familiar with the intricacies of buddhism or how the different branches differ....but effectively it's the same goal.
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Post by sin on Apr 1, 2009 13:09:13 GMT -6
The 4th way is effectively what the Buddha teaches. I know that some here aren't that familiar with the intricacies of buddhism or how the different branches differ....but effectively it's the same goal. I'm reminded of the Buddhist proverb: "If you see a Buddha in the road, kill it." If you see Cthulhu outside of yourself, would you kill it Drenki?
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Post by whatsupable on May 30, 2009 13:14:13 GMT -6
how can i know when i am awake i thougt it a few times (but not so strong as today)
i was going to my new work and had a lot of stuff to place at the right place. it took me so long to find everything and i was looking at all the stuff and it didn't look as what it was but just a form whit a color and i tryed self remebering and tryed to look at myself from above i tryed this a lot last week and this time it worked. i could see myself walk and others do you think this is the awaken state? i thougt so but i am not sure of it because i heard it feels like a orgasm and it was not a real great feeling more a bored and wierd one.
ia ia
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Jun 30, 2009 6:20:45 GMT -6
Ia Ia!
I was re-reading the 'Blood Orgies Of The Loathsome Tentacle' chapter today and it did make me wonder: Where does homosexuality and bisexuality fit into all of this? Indeed, DOES it? I noted the heavy focus on women and it just got me thinking (being a very open-minded person and such...) that if woman is man's equal, then is man not also man's equal, and, by that token, woman woman's equal? Enlighten me.
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Post by Sarak G'hash on Jun 30, 2009 17:23:15 GMT -6
I just finished reading the Liber A:O ...ok VS get outta my mind...it's a dark and scawwwy place..hehehe.. This book reflects my thoughts exactly to the letter and it's nice to see what I have always known in print!!
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Post by Timotheus Prophet of Darkness on Jul 1, 2009 17:30:33 GMT -6
Ia Ia! I was re-reading the 'Blood Orgies Of The Loathsome Tentacle' chapter today and it did make me wonder: Where does homosexuality and bisexuality fit into all of this? Indeed, DOES it? I noted the heavy focus on women and it just got me thinking (being a very open-minded person and such...) that if woman is man's equal, then is man not also man's equal, and, by that token, woman woman's equal? Enlighten me. being gay i myself have ben wondering that as well.
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