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Post by I AM the Way on Feb 22, 2010 14:10:01 GMT -6
Hey D, Wow. I don't even know where to begin... I just read the essay "A half-choked meep of cosmic fear: Is there esoteric symbolism in H.P.Lovecraft's The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath?" by David Geall in the Journal for the Academic Study of Magic Issue 3. It totally blew my mind. Previously I had thought Lovecraft had very little detailed knowledge of the occult, let alone belief; just things he'd picked up from Murray's Witch-Cult in Western Europe and whatnot. This essay has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt (at least in my mind) that indeed Lovecraft had extensive Qabalistic knowledge (either consciously or unconsciously), and in particular, very unique knowledge of how the tarot is represented in the Tree of Life and its associations -- knowledge that was pretty much only privy to those associated with the GD and/or groups affiliated with Crowley, at least in the 20s. In fact, the attributes are specifically Golden Dawn. How could he have known? Not only that, but HPL apparently also had an understanding of gematria. He included coded numerical meanings all over the place in the tale. Geall points out that every time Lovecraft mentions the number of days of travel from city to city, or a number in general, it corresponds exactly with that area’s meaning on the tree of life. Even the number of steps on the “Steps of Deeper Slumber” have significance. I wish I had the essay handy to give you some examples. Additionally, some of the locations as described are eerily similar to the landscape or structures associated tarot card (Rider-Waite deck). The whole tale is a fucking coded cipher! In the essay, David Geall describes how each step of the story is actually symbolic for traversing very distinct paths along the Tree of Life (though in Lovecraft's case, the protagonist, Randolph Carter, is actually descending the Tree of Life into the Qlipphoth. Each city/palace/woods/ river/ bridge/ creature Carter visits corresponds exactly to the attributes of that particular sephiroth, or pathway between sephiroth, and includes all the attributes and associations. It’s uncanny. The odds are astronomical that it could all be chance. The locations/sephiroth go in order so that you can actually map out the path Carter takes along the Tree of Life (the author does so graphically). So how did Lovecraft know these various associations? If this is true (and I believe it is) Lovecraft had profound Qabalistic knowledge -- regardless of what he admitted to his peers. We all know that he was a materialist and claimed not to believe in the occult or supernatural. However, his life was full of inconsistencies. After all, we're talking about an anti-Semite who married a Jew! It’s also possible that he secretly belonged to a hermetic order. I can think of no other way he could have come about this knowledge. Due to the usual secrecy, this fact may have gone with him to the grave. Or perhaps he really was tapping into some kind of collective consciousness or understood deeper cosmic revelations unconsciously or spontaneously without even realizing it. If you look at many of the people Lovecraft admired: Blackwood, Machen, Waite, Yeats, Meyrink, etc. They’re all GD members. Is it a stretch to think he may have wanted to understand the same occult concepts they had all studied? If not actually believing them, then perhaps it was researched to better understand their story’s background? Even funnier is that Lovecraft avoids all sephiroth that are associated with female energies or are depicted by a female character in the Rider-Waite tarot. This fits in-line with HPL's avoidance of females (for whatever reason) in his writing, sans the occasional evil woman. This essay is a must-read. The implications are astounding. I'm wondering if perhaps there was a New England-based GD group in which HPL may have been a member. I really can't figure out how he could have got this information. Geall offers a few possibilities, but the likelihood of such obscure documents finding their way to Providence is very very low, never mind that there is no record in his affects. I'm starting to think there really may be something too the assertions of Kenneth Grant and Michael Bertieaux that Lovecraft may have had secret knowledge or at least had channeled something really profound without even realizing it. More on David Geall: www.westminster.ac.uk/schools/humanities/staff/english,-linguistics-and-cultural-studies/geall,-david ~KIa Ia Cthulhu fhtagn!
This revelation, personally emailed to me by Cult forum member, The New Nonsense, comes as little surprise to me. I will be obtaining the journal in question for my own perusal. Until then, let us dream of the repercussions. Are we indeed living in an emerald age... a Cthulhuoid Aeon?
Certainly, such a welcome discovery is cause for celebration. By the end of tomorrow, February 23rd, I'd like to see at least a third of all Cultists posting in this, or any other thread among these hallowed discussion boards. To my thinking, we've all been far too lax.
When the stars are right!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by Draelloathe on Feb 22, 2010 14:28:05 GMT -6
I may have to rethink my thinking on the Qlippoth, as I don't much like jewish magics. I particularly love the Dream Quest book, and if Lovecraft worked it, it must have redeeming values. Forgive me if I seem biased, but Jesus was a jew.
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Post by I AM the Way on Feb 22, 2010 14:58:38 GMT -6
I believe both those statements are debatable, referring to Qlippoth as Jewish magic and Jesus as a Jew. Lovecraft married Sonia Greene... does that make Lovecraft a Jew?
Cultists are taught to re-think damn near everything at all moments.
By His loathsome tentacles,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Post by Sarak G'hash on Feb 22, 2010 15:08:22 GMT -6
Hey D, Wow. I don't even know where to begin... I just read the essay "A half-choked meep of cosmic fear: Is there esoteric symbolism in H.P.Lovecraft's The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath?" by David Geall in the Journal for the Academic Study of Magic Issue 3. It totally blew my mind. Previously I had thought Lovecraft had very little detailed knowledge of the occult, let alone belief; just things he'd picked up from Murray's Witch-Cult in Western Europe and whatnot. This essay has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt (at least in my mind) that indeed Lovecraft had extensive Qabalistic knowledge (either consciously or unconsciously), and in particular, very unique knowledge of how the tarot is represented in the Tree of Life and its associations -- knowledge that was pretty much only privy to those associated with the GD and/or groups affiliated with Crowley, at least in the 20s. In fact, the attributes are specifically Golden Dawn. How could he have known? Not only that, but HPL apparently also had an understanding of gematria. He included coded numerical meanings all over the place in the tale. Geall points out that every time Lovecraft mentions the number of days of travel from city to city, or a number in general, it corresponds exactly with that area’s meaning on the tree of life. Even the number of steps on the “Steps of Deeper Slumber” have significance. I wish I had the essay handy to give you some examples. Additionally, some of the locations as described are eerily similar to the landscape or structures associated tarot card (Rider-Waite deck). The whole tale is a fucking coded cipher! In the essay, David Geall describes how each step of the story is actually symbolic for traversing very distinct paths along the Tree of Life (though in Lovecraft's case, the protagonist, Randolph Carter, is actually descending the Tree of Life into the Qlipphoth. Each city/palace/woods/ river/ bridge/ creature Carter visits corresponds exactly to the attributes of that particular sephiroth, or pathway between sephiroth, and includes all the attributes and associations. It’s uncanny. The odds are astronomical that it could all be chance. The locations/sephiroth go in order so that you can actually map out the path Carter takes along the Tree of Life (the author does so graphically). So how did Lovecraft know these various associations? If this is true (and I believe it is) Lovecraft had profound Qabalistic knowledge -- regardless of what he admitted to his peers. We all know that he was a materialist and claimed not to believe in the occult or supernatural. However, his life was full of inconsistencies. After all, we're talking about an anti-Semite who married a Jew! It’s also possible that he secretly belonged to a hermetic order. I can think of no other way he could have come about this knowledge. Due to the usual secrecy, this fact may have gone with him to the grave. Or perhaps he really was tapping into some kind of collective consciousness or understood deeper cosmic revelations unconsciously or spontaneously without even realizing it. If you look at many of the people Lovecraft admired: Blackwood, Machen, Waite, Yeats, Meyrink, etc. They’re all GD members. Is it a stretch to think he may have wanted to understand the same occult concepts they had all studied? If not actually believing them, then perhaps it was researched to better understand their story’s background? Even funnier is that Lovecraft avoids all sephiroth that are associated with female energies or are depicted by a female character in the Rider-Waite tarot. This fits in-line with HPL's avoidance of females (for whatever reason) in his writing, sans the occasional evil woman. This essay is a must-read. The implications are astounding. I'm wondering if perhaps there was a New England-based GD group in which HPL may have been a member. I really can't figure out how he could have got this information. Geall offers a few possibilities, but the likelihood of such obscure documents finding their way to Providence is very very low, never mind that there is no record in his affects. I'm starting to think there really may be something too the assertions of Kenneth Grant and Michael Bertieaux that Lovecraft may have had secret knowledge or at least had channeled something really profound without even realizing it. More on David Geall: www.westminster.ac.uk/schools/humanities/staff/english,-linguistics-and-cultural-studies/geall,-david ~KIa Ia Cthulhu fhtagn!
This revelation, personally emailed to me by Cult forum member, The New Nonsense, comes as little surprise to me. I will be obtaining the journal in question for my own perusal. Until then, let us dream of the repercussions. Are we indeed living in an emerald age... a Cthulhuoid Aeon?
Certainly, such a welcome discovery is cause for celebration. By the end of tomorrow, February 23rd, I'd like to see at least a third of all Cultists posting in this, or any other thread among these hallowed discussion boards. To my thinking, we've all been far too lax.
When the stars are right!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest I've never been all that interested in the Jewish occult before, but after reading this post, I see that was a mistake! Big time mistake! I will immediatly correct this and start grabbing every ebook I can and catch up. I had a feeling that Lovecraft knew what he was talking about in his books.
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Post by Draelloathe on Feb 22, 2010 15:10:46 GMT -6
That's true Lord Satanist, and according to jewish law you're not a jew until you're married twice into the jewish line. But, that's not here nor there. I guess what I was trying to say, is as you stated. I had to rethink what I previously had prejudiced.
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Post by thorgrim on Feb 22, 2010 17:47:30 GMT -6
I am all for using whatever I can to advance my cause. While I am just 3rd generation from Germany, and had family members who died in the Wehrmacht of WW2, I still know my cultral Identity is in no way compromised by using magicks of other cultures and races. I certainly feel more connected to Seid and traditional witchcraft than santaria or voudon, yet I have incorporated their techniques into my own work with success. Would we pass up an Uzi on the battlefield when our M16 runs out of ammo simply because it is a "jew gun"? Certainly not, and I feel kabbalistic magicks to be just another weopon to be put in our arsenal. Make no mistake though, the jew is your enemy.
I am not a cultist, though I see the potential of good sorcerers no matter what names they choose to use for that which cannot be named. This movement is still in it's infancy, and to be blunt many in the greater occult community do not take this seriously. However, if this turns out to be substaniated, it lends a huge amount credability to what you good folks are doing here. The purists will be forced to recognise HPL sorcery as a valid paradigm, albeit from a Gnostic perspective. This is a very interesting development to say the least.
FFF
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Post by I AM the Way on Feb 22, 2010 18:44:41 GMT -6
Why this thread seems to be inordinately preoccupied with things other than Lovecraft's understanding and use of dark occultism and black magic is beyond me.
That statement was particularly distasteful, in my opinion.
Perhaps this revelation is just too much for most people, including Cultists, to immediately process? I mean... my God! This is like an archaeologist finding an astronaut's suit buried beneath one of Egypt's pyramids! Basically, everything that scholars once believed about Lovecraft has shifted, if not altogether shattered. To say that this changes everything is a cyclopean understatement. The implications are staggering!
Am I out of line to mistake this as the discovery of the decade, and what's more to sit at my computer dumbfounded by the lack of intense metaphysical, historical, and artistic analysis? Reality has been changed, everyone.
By His loathsome tentacles,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Kai'Sigth
Novitiate
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 10
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Feb 22, 2010 18:54:44 GMT -6
Hey D, Wow. I don't even know where to begin... I just read the essay "A half-choked meep of cosmic fear: Is there esoteric symbolism in H.P.Lovecraft's The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath?" by David Geall in the Journal for the Academic Study of Magic Issue 3. It totally blew my mind. Previously I had thought Lovecraft had very little detailed knowledge of the occult, let alone belief; just things he'd picked up from Murray's Witch-Cult in Western Europe and whatnot. This essay has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt (at least in my mind) that indeed Lovecraft had extensive Qabalistic knowledge (either consciously or unconsciously), and in particular, very unique knowledge of how the tarot is represented in the Tree of Life and its associations -- knowledge that was pretty much only privy to those associated with the GD and/or groups affiliated with Crowley, at least in the 20s. In fact, the attributes are specifically Golden Dawn. How could he have known? Not only that, but HPL apparently also had an understanding of gematria. He included coded numerical meanings all over the place in the tale. Geall points out that every time Lovecraft mentions the number of days of travel from city to city, or a number in general, it corresponds exactly with that area’s meaning on the tree of life. Even the number of steps on the “Steps of Deeper Slumber” have significance. I wish I had the essay handy to give you some examples. Additionally, some of the locations as described are eerily similar to the landscape or structures associated tarot card (Rider-Waite deck). The whole tale is a fucking coded cipher! In the essay, David Geall describes how each step of the story is actually symbolic for traversing very distinct paths along the Tree of Life (though in Lovecraft's case, the protagonist, Randolph Carter, is actually descending the Tree of Life into the Qlipphoth. Each city/palace/woods/ river/ bridge/ creature Carter visits corresponds exactly to the attributes of that particular sephiroth, or pathway between sephiroth, and includes all the attributes and associations. It’s uncanny. The odds are astronomical that it could all be chance. The locations/sephiroth go in order so that you can actually map out the path Carter takes along the Tree of Life (the author does so graphically). So how did Lovecraft know these various associations? If this is true (and I believe it is) Lovecraft had profound Qabalistic knowledge -- regardless of what he admitted to his peers. We all know that he was a materialist and claimed not to believe in the occult or supernatural. However, his life was full of inconsistencies. After all, we're talking about an anti-Semite who married a Jew! It’s also possible that he secretly belonged to a hermetic order. I can think of no other way he could have come about this knowledge. Due to the usual secrecy, this fact may have gone with him to the grave. Or perhaps he really was tapping into some kind of collective consciousness or understood deeper cosmic revelations unconsciously or spontaneously without even realizing it. If you look at many of the people Lovecraft admired: Blackwood, Machen, Waite, Yeats, Meyrink, etc. They’re all GD members. Is it a stretch to think he may have wanted to understand the same occult concepts they had all studied? If not actually believing them, then perhaps it was researched to better understand their story’s background? Even funnier is that Lovecraft avoids all sephiroth that are associated with female energies or are depicted by a female character in the Rider-Waite tarot. This fits in-line with HPL's avoidance of females (for whatever reason) in his writing, sans the occasional evil woman. This essay is a must-read. The implications are astounding. I'm wondering if perhaps there was a New England-based GD group in which HPL may have been a member. I really can't figure out how he could have got this information. Geall offers a few possibilities, but the likelihood of such obscure documents finding their way to Providence is very very low, never mind that there is no record in his affects. I'm starting to think there really may be something too the assertions of Kenneth Grant and Michael Bertieaux that Lovecraft may have had secret knowledge or at least had channeled something really profound without even realizing it. More on David Geall: www.westminster.ac.uk/schools/humanities/staff/english,-linguistics-and-cultural-studies/geall,-david ~KIa Ia Cthulhu fhtagn!
This revelation, personally emailed to me by Cult forum member, The New Nonsense, comes as little surprise to me. I will be obtaining the journal in question for my own perusal. Until then, let us dream of the repercussions. Are we indeed living in an emerald age... a Cthulhuoid Aeon?
Certainly, such a welcome discovery is cause for celebration. By the end of tomorrow, February 23rd, I'd like to see at least a third of all Cultists posting in this, or any other thread among these hallowed discussion boards. To my thinking, we've all been far too lax.
When the stars are right!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest That's astounding and perhaps true, I certainly could see Lovecraft as a closet occultist. I personality haven't studied much of the knowledge taught by the Golden Dawn but I am familiar with the Tree of Life. I would love to read more about this. This could mean a lot for this Cult as well! Ia! Ia! Cthulhu Fhtagn!
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Post by I AM the Way on Feb 22, 2010 19:06:53 GMT -6
Indeed it could... and shall.
Also, there is the other possibility that HPL was so unconsciously in-tune with the magical current of the day that he either tapped right into Crowley and company or received extensive visions from other sorcerers practicing at that period of history. One thing is for sure, HPL acquired much more than a mere cursory glance of the unknown; that stuff was a part of him!
By His loathsome tentacles,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
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Kai'Sigth
Novitiate
Dreaming Herald of the Old Gods
Posts: 10
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Post by Kai'Sigth on Feb 22, 2010 19:08:56 GMT -6
Why this thread seems to be inordinately preoccupied with things other than Lovecraft's understanding and use of dark occultism and black magic is beyond me. That statement was particularly distasteful, in my opinion.
Perhaps this revelation is just too much for most people, including Cultists, to immediately process? I mean... my God! This is like an archaeologist finding an astronaut's suit buried beneath one of Egypt's pyramids! Basically, everything that scholars once believed about Lovecraft has shifted, if not altogether shattered. To say that this changes everything is a cyclopean understatement. The implications are staggering!
Am I out of line to mistake this as the discovery of the decade, and what's more to sit at my computer dumbfounded by the lack of intense metaphysical, historical, and artistic analysis? Reality has been changed, everyone.
By His loathsome tentacles,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest I certainly understand the implications that this could mean about Lovecraft, his Mythos, and the future of this Cult. This changes everything. Awake!
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Post by Draelloathe on Feb 22, 2010 19:08:50 GMT -6
I agree Lord Satanis, it boggles the mind.
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Post by Ny'obstaresh on Feb 22, 2010 19:24:32 GMT -6
Interesting news indeed!
The implications of this, if able to be substantiated, are indeed astounding. Of course, I reserve full judgement until I can actually read this article myself.
Ia Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
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Post by Sarak G'hash on Feb 23, 2010 4:25:18 GMT -6
Indeed it could... and shall.
Also, there is the other possibility that HPL was so unconsciously in-tune with the magical current of the day that he either tapped right into Crowley and company or received extensive visions from other sorcerers practicing at that period of history. One thing is for sure, HPL acquired much more than a mere cursory glance of the unknown; that stuff was a part of him!
By His loathsome tentacles,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Cult of Cthulhu High Priest
I can understand how someone can be unconsciously in tune with the magical current which surrounds us, since that is how I do ninety percent of my magic. That's why it seems, sometimes, that things "just happen" when I send out thoughts. Magic studies died down for a while, but really picked back up in the sixties which is also when I started finding out how to send out thoughts and desires to "make things happen." So, in a very small way, I can relate to what Lovecraft experienced.
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Post by Xor'Nefthrahm on Feb 23, 2010 8:47:34 GMT -6
I think one of the beautiful things about Chaos Magick is that you can use different magickal systems, WITHOUT actually believing in the religion put up around it. Jewish Mysticism can be some powerful stuff.. just think of the stories of King Solomon, who worked with Demons regularly. In fact, some of the stories show that demons are totally evil beings afterall, but more like you or me.
But I say, take what works, and toss the dogma behind it away! And know that MOST Jewish Folk magick is actually closely based on Shamanism from the area, and probably only LATER changed to a monotheistic tone. The Goetia is based on Jewish Magick, and it is some INTERESTING stuff to work with. I prefer Michael Ford's Luciferian Goetia approch, as it is more respectful.
I personally dont like working with Angels, they are too mindless although they are not soft and weak as some may think.. think of Azrael, the angel of death, or even Michael. EVERY entity, including angels, has a side of severity and a side of mercy depending on the situation. And they CAN be pretty scary if they are there NOT to comfort but kick ass. I prefer demons though.. they are more like US. I think the reason why people have reservations against working with them is because they have free will, and they are as predictable as a human. Angels have a JOB to do, and will do it. To me it seems more like you can build a rep amongst demons more than Angels, or at least that is what my personal experiances tell me. Just some thought on it.
Perhaps Lovecraft was a Chaos Magician and didnt even realize it?
AWAKE! Esbara'Kesh
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Post by Drizzle Drazzle on Feb 23, 2010 10:03:54 GMT -6
I look forward to reading this article.
Kenneth Grant, In his Typhonian Trilogies, spends much time deliniating the parrellels in HPL's writings with GD systems...
Also, I personally did much solo magick, and dream works, for years before ever seriously delving into the occult--when I finally DID put myself to serious study of kabbalah and Tarot, for example, I found much that closely parelleled my OWN dream workings--I found much within the old hemetic and alchemical texts which was already familiar to me.
NOW: actuall *proof* that Lovecraft was an initiate, or that he at least had access to GD related texts?
Proof or no, "channeled" or studied, a detailed and allegedly uncanny correlation betwenn one of my favourite stories and the fools journey through the tarot/dark side of the tree of life--this is rather exiting.
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Post by beastx on Feb 23, 2010 15:52:11 GMT -6
I've been searching the web high and low trying to get a hold of a PDF copy of this essay. This is even bigger than is probably realized as it was in fact actually talked about and in every sense predicted during one of my conversation with Puck back in November. Puck had the same beliefs in HPL's underlying connection to the "Occult Current".
In fact beyond that it was heavily discussed and then agreed upon by us that there are people who are instinctively attuned to their Magickal Selves. HPL was undoubtedly one of those people.
I would be completely honored if someone was to produce a PDF copy of this essay for me to examine. Perhaps there is a key contained with in the document which will aid in helping me complete the first portion of my resent research and experiments.
Awake!
Beast Xeno First Priest of R'lyeh Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by Drizzle Drazzle on Feb 23, 2010 17:56:32 GMT -6
I am still only cautiously optomistic about the article in question...
As hinted in my previous post, the fact of coincidence/channeled dream lore always seemed most likely.
*ahem*
But then we remember Sonia Greene and the rumour of her having once dated Aleister Crowley...
((others have gone so far as to even allege that the Necronomicon was even a mere veiled reference to Liber AL))
The fact that Machen was involved in occult fraternaties, as mentioned in the original post...
Kenneth Grant, leader of the Typhonian OTO, successor to Crowley was gifted the famous LAM drawing by Crowley before his death...Grant's work being Kliffothic in nature, Lam being E.T in nature....The GOO largely seeming both E.T and Kliffothic in nature...
A definative *proof* or even strong suggestion that HPL had access to occult lore would certainly change the entirely playing field, and the begins to seem more than just a smidgeon likely (to me) as I contemplate the matter.
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Post by thorgrim on Feb 24, 2010 17:06:35 GMT -6
I apoligise Mr.D, I am a bit anti-semetic and I often make such faux pas.
Oh my, The new nonsense? My hats off to you brother, you know your shit. Excellent post.
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Post by Belarion on Apr 8, 2010 21:11:40 GMT -6
The cheapest I can find the journal is around $30, which isn't that much but maybe more than I want to spend for one essay.
So I have an idea, an experiment. We could get a group of cultists with knowledge of the dreaded jew magick of the tarot and qabalah, and we could read the Dream-Quest with an eye to symbolism.
We each do it separately and then come together and see if we have anything that correlates. I'm familiar with Levi and his idea of a universal Tarot language, although it's been a while. Also I did the OTO thing, so I'm good with Liber 777 and the Tree of Life.
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Post by nixx on Apr 9, 2010 4:51:18 GMT -6
I'd be down with that. I familiar with the Tarot, as well as Crowley's stuff. Let's see what we can make happen to warp us some reality with it. Let's use the Dream Quest as a muse for some really out there ritual work after our initial symbolism search. I haven't read the story in about 15 years, so I'm anxious to give your experiment a shot, Belarion.
When the Stars Are Right!
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Post by nixx on Apr 9, 2010 5:14:57 GMT -6
As a side note now that I've gone back & read the original post, being a Rhode Island native; there are a plethora of synagogues in RI, in fact the first one ever founded in this country is in Newport. Also, there are a plethora of Masonic lodges & societies dedicated to Eastern spirituality. Also, take into consideration that both Brown University with its Egyptology & Semitic studies department & Rhode Island School of Design were both within easy walking distance of Lovecraft's home, I think it would be very plausible for him to have contact with not only GD material, but any number of occult information not in general circulation at that time just by the assortment of people & scholars he had the potential to have access to in his many treks through the East Side of Providence alone.
I personally consider Lovecraft to have prophetic abilities that he was most likely not aware of, or failing that, able to pick divergent threads of "reality potential" from diverse sources & assemble them in a cohesive whole. If you cross-reference his work with the Simon Necronomicon, you will find many parallels & even find a great deal of insight into the Simon Nec from reading Lovecraft. That is another point that can be debated, but here is probably not the place for it. I will indeed be reading the article that spurred this thread.
Awake! for the Emerald Kingdom is at Hand!
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Post by Belarion on Apr 9, 2010 20:50:26 GMT -6
I'll start working on this tonight.
Lovecraft's personality, and the nature of the time would explain a secrecy regarding any knowledge he had of occult matters, or any membership in a secret society. It was a different era. You could go forward a decade or two and look at the problems Ray Palmer and Richard Shaver had admitting that they believed that Shaver's pulp fiction was more than an entertaining tale.
This is going to be fun.
Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!
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Post by sorrowking on Nov 14, 2010 18:36:07 GMT -6
I have personally always been of the belief the HPL was a natural mystic and in tune with metaphysical world even if he didnt know it. A large portion of his work was based on his dreams and "Kadath" is no exception. Its entirely conceivable that Lovecraft during sleep would reach a level of consciousness similar to that achieved by meditation, sensory deprivation, astral travelling etc. giving him access to knowledge that he would otherwise be unable to find in the physical realm.
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Post by Voraxith on Sept 12, 2011 2:30:43 GMT -6
Wow, I really need to spend more time actually reading the forums... This is the kind of heavy shit I was hoping to find here in the Cult of Cthulhu. Thank you, Lord Venger.
Now, ever since I began studying Cthulhian and Lovecraftian occultism (about seven years ago), I early on came to the personal conclusion that Grandpa Eich Pi El was NOT, as some would love to allege, an occultist. He simply wasn't. All the scholarship is there--if he were, we'd know. Hell, there's extant letters of him asking Clark Ashton Smith for suggestions for very basic literature for him to use as idea springboards for his stories. I know Venger loathes the authors of this book, but I personally recommend "The Necronomicon Files" if only for a good look at all this.
However, I do believe, and quite earnestly (in fact, this is my absolute justification for Cthulhian religion, i.e. Cthulhianity), that Lovecraft was what I call an Unwitting Prophet. Though an unbeliever, the Formless Black Essence sought him out and instilled the knowledge of Itself into his dreams. Lovecraft was susceptible to this influence due to his psychological sensitivity, his morbid fascination with the darkness, his ingrained fear, and all of the occult influence surrounding him.
I believe quite literally that Cthulhu reached His loathsome, psychic tentacles out from the abyssal depths of the primal chaos in which He dwells, and touched Lovecraft's mind, thus giving the Unwitting Prophet the knowledge to write his incredible tales of cosmic horror. Lovecraft himself admitted many many many times that nearly everything he wrote came directly from his dreams. And what did he write of Great Cthulhu? That He influences men's dreams. Hmmm... Seems an awful coinkeydink, don't it?
As far as the qlippoth and the Tree of Death, my grotto of La'Ahmar at the prison in Orofino, Idaho had done an extensive amount of work comparing the dark system of the qabbalah (as for some bizarre reason the prison chapel had a wonderful set of qabbalah study books) to the Cthulhu mythos, and had even drawn many of our studies from the Dream Quest cycle.
So is it any wonder that another writer (of obviously far greater scholarly bent than myself, thank gods) drew the same conclusions, and went into even further depth than just the superficial? I must beg and plead for a copy of this essay--it sounds like it should be mandatory reading for EVERY SINGLE member of this cult.
The proof is readily available! Lovecraft truly was the Unwitting Prophet. Though he had no true belief (aside from a very early dalliance into Greek paganism), no inclination, his soul was the vessel for the truth, to which we, as the Cult of Cthulhu, are now the heirs. Study, study, study! This is it. These are the end-times, for the Emerald Apocalypse truly does draw nigh.
[glow=red,2,300]Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn![/glow]
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Post by dudetyson on Sept 12, 2011 18:38:26 GMT -6
Glad you posted here, Voraxith, because I totally missed this thread.
Did we get PDFs of this essay out to cultists yet? I'd like to see if this theory holds up. If it does, well, you can tell everyone who says that Lovecraft was merely a fiction writer to eat shit.
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Post by Voraxith on Sept 13, 2011 18:35:43 GMT -6
What I cannot believe is that this topic isn't more active in the Cult. The idea that Lovecraft actually knew what he was talking about lends so much credibility to the idea of Lovecraftian or Cthulhian occultism/religion, and considering the constant lampooning we get from the general occult community, it seems that every last member or affiliate of the Cult of Cthulhu would want to just shut them the fuck up.
I wonder if Venger has ever considered getting in touch with Donald Tyson, author of the Llewellyn-published Necronomicon series. A lot of his ideas that he postulates are entertaining at best, but the man seems genuinely interested in propagating Lovecraftian occultism.
[glow=red,2,300]Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn![/glow]
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