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Post by onenineeighteight on Nov 18, 2013 14:07:48 GMT -6
Brother Satanis
I'd like you to shine a little more light on the matter: what are the "inherent ties between the Cthulhu Mythos and The Work"? I've been here only for a short time now, so I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere on the forum before, or if it's just that I haven't read the "Bible" yet, but since the teachings of the Cult seems to bind the teachings of The Fourth Way with the Cthulhu Mythos, I've been trying to approach this from the primary sources.
The Cthulhu Mythos is very familiar to me, and today, I just finished the first chapter in The Fourth Way. Even after the first chapter, I can say, that The Fourth Way seems to cultivate many of the ideas and wisdom I've already found here and there from other ancient sources. Needless to say, I look forward reading it more thoroughly.
I don't mind, if you wish to keep (or deepen?) The Fourth Way as part of the Cult's core teachings, but I'd like to know how you see the Cthulhu Mythos "tied" to the Fourth Way? So far, from the personal point of view, I can understand the Cthulhu Mythos as a symbolic, useful, meaningful, and relatable psycho dramatic tool for religious practice, and for gaining insight into one's life.
But what say you?
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 19, 2013 14:56:43 GMT -6
I will get to your post very soon. Today I'm under the weather and under an unusual amount of stress.
VS
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Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 20, 2013 10:20:45 GMT -6
I will get to your post very soon. Today I'm under the weather and under an unusual amount of stress.
VS
You lucky bastard! (been awhile since I've raised the bar)
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Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 21, 2013 9:39:36 GMT -6
I know that this was directed at VS, and I hope you don't mind me putting in my half-cent. I'm assuming you're looking for the correspondence between the mythos and the Fourth Way. The works of Lovecraft are only intrinsically linked to the Fourth Way in the way that everything else is, or another way to put it, it's linked in the same way everything is the subject of psychology. The Fourth Way is a system of inner psychology and is a way to understand how the mind works. So, everything has a bit of Fourth Way (or psychology) in it because it was produced by a human mind. As an allegory, a dot matrix printer can print all kinds of different images, but it does this using a kind of process, so no matter what the image is, you can always tell that a dot-matrix printer created it. The correspondence that ( I assume ) you're looking for is in the overall themes of Lovecraft's work, not necessarily a specific gods in the mythos. For example, it's more useful to consider what all the gods have in common -- that they can't be understood by humans. This relates to how we're all limited by our current knowledge and is a recognition that there's things that we don't understand. The Fourth Way expresses this by constantly reminding the student that there's something "higher". That Lovecraft's characters have a habit of going insane when faced with the universe as it is (not as they think it is) is reflected in the Fourth Way by the assertion that if someone suddenly were aware of themselves as they really are, they couldn't bear it. I'm sure there's others, but I'm more into psychology than Lovecraft. EDIT: It just occurred to me - both are weird. Really, really weird. But, hey, that's metanoia.
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Post by onenineeighteight on Nov 26, 2013 6:12:12 GMT -6
Brother shawnhartnell.
I thank you for your response. I understand the correspondence you described to be somewhat symbolic one - that there are some themes (like the 'unknown' and it's possibilities, and man's inability/struggle to comprehend reality) that occur in both The Fourth Way and The Cthulhu Mythos.
I have thought about this kind of correspondence too, but I wasn't (and still aren't) sure, if it's the "official view" of the Cult, or a view the Cult Leaders wish to affirm as some kind of core teaching of the Cult in order to create more unified teaching system? Which I don't mind, but I also do understand, that this could upset Cult Member with different backgrounds and views.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Nov 26, 2013 10:58:49 GMT -6
How would that offend someone? (Unless they're also offended by Star Trek:TNG. Picard : "The unknown is the reason we're out here!")
And, this is an opinion from the outside looking in, but people who have put a lot of thought into Lovecraft seem to be able to understand the Fourth Way easier than someone who hasn't.
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Post by I AM the Way on Nov 27, 2013 14:46:38 GMT -6
Our need to Awaken is not unlike Dread Cthulhu's. Asleep, we can only do so much, which is to say, the base level of comprehension, achievement, and understanding - nothing beyond. Cthulhu fitfully slumbers, always on the verge of Awakening, just like humanity. Of course, not all of mankind has the potential to wake up from the sleep of life. Only a few have that kind of possibility - the sensitive artists, occultists, and seekers of truth.
The terrifying unknown and unbearable revelations of our unvarnished selves is another, as Brother Shawn already mentioned. Humanity's present and myopic view of things doesn't reveal much. We see too dimly past the opaqueness of our being. To become more translucent, like the void from whence the Old Ones came and shall come again, should be our chief aim. This is related to Self-Remembering.
Consciousness is the primary agent, function, or weapon (if you will) of the sorcerer. His state of gnosis, where spells may be cast, is virtually identical to the Fourth Way student's state of objective consciousness. Furthermore, both their goals are the same - willed change! In this, they are as practitioners of the Left Hand Path: focused on the essential self and its manifestations... always with one eye open to unseen opportunities, future possibilities, and the third side.
VS
p.s. Indeed, Shawn, without a progression of force against us, our force does not progress.
p.p.s. You've inspired me, along with a recent phone call from T.C. Downey, to make a CoC website essay out of this post:
www.cultofcthulhu.net/2013/11/fourth-way-cthulhu-cult/
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Post by shawnhartnell on Feb 19, 2014 5:27:06 GMT -6
Deleted my original post here. After reading Lovecraft's reasons in his own words, I've decided to respect those reasons. (Though, I don't agree with them.)
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Post by wren on Aug 30, 2014 18:17:44 GMT -6
Is the CoC still a Fourth Way school? It seems to me we don't have enough members to say so and there doesn't seem to be any focus on it at all. That is what drew me to the Cult in the first place but I question its use in Awakening. Perhaps it's time to find a new school? Thoughts?
Awake!
Wren
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2014 8:41:49 GMT -6
Is the CoC still a Fourth Way school? It seems to me we don't have enough members to say so and there doesn't seem to be any focus on it at all. That is what drew me to the Cult in the first place but I question its use in Awakening. Perhaps it's time to find a new school? Thoughts? Awake! Wren True, activity here is pretty low at the moment, but you don't need to leave, if you find a new one then you can have two schools, and please make us know what is this new school and what you are learning !
Indeed there is a lot of excellent stuff in this forum, so by reading and searching anyone can find the Way.
I am still here daily, me Priest of R'lyeh, and I will continue to reply to any question.
Now is the moment of Awakening.
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Post by shawnhartnell on Sept 10, 2014 20:31:37 GMT -6
I agree with Y.
The only thing I can add is that to be a school someone has to ask questions about what they want to learn.
What do you want to learn?
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Post by wren on Sept 15, 2014 15:04:46 GMT -6
I am mostly concerned that those who are interested in following the Work have gone elsewhere. Those that know about the three lines of Work know that ones own development requires working with others in the Work as well. But I will take your advice Yrreiht. I will also try to put more effort in the Cult when I have time to comment on things.
To answer shawnhartnell, what I want to learn is that which will help me in pursuit of my Aim. I dont want to particularly leave the Cult but if it's not benefiting myself or my Work then there is no meaning in being here for me. But, as I've said, I'll stay and perhaps look for another school for the knowledge I need.
Awake!
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