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Post by Ikaros on Feb 25, 2011 22:55:53 GMT -6
If belief is reality . . .
Then the individual is the highest authority.
Then there are as many paths to Awakening as there are people asleep.
Then there is no objective right or wrong way.
Then, if you choose to follow in someone else's footsteps, this is your reality, and is just as valid as those who strike out on their own. However, it does not necessarily mean that you have subjugated your reality to someone else, but rather incorporated the beliefs that you found useful on your quest.
Then blatant self-promotion and requests for payments from those seeking awakening is a perfectly valid path for the person doing it.
Then belief that religion can be sold at 6 easy payments plus shipping and handling is a reality that benefits the wealthy and the one paid, not the one wanting to do his own work.
Then fair trade can have nearly infinite definitions. What I believe to be fair may not be the same as your belief.
Then if a person believes himself to be awakened, he is so in his reality, and in those who choose to believe in his reality. The question then becomes, what have you done to convince others of your awakening?
Then you don't have to convince others of your awakening.
Then self-confidence, arrogance, awakening, positivity, negativity, utility, inadequacy, mastery, and slavery are all matters of perspective.
A few of the things I choose to believe:
To attack another person's reality is an attempt to dominate that person's reality. To question another person's reality is an attempt at edification. The difference between attack and question is a matter of perspective. If you are going to make a claim about someone else's awakening, or lack thereof, when that person asks you for specifics, clarification, or examples, you should answer, not ask for money.
Then, if you choose to believe that making money at the expense of integrity is the path for you, that is your reality (but it may still make you a whore). ;D
Belief is Reality (ain't that a bitch)!
Ikaros
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Feb 26, 2011 23:37:33 GMT -6
I don't think it's a bitch sir. On the contrary, I see it as a wonderful opportunity to expand the horizons and conquer your destiny. To grab life by the balls (so to speak). I do have but one thing to add. When I worked as a chemist, I was constantly affronted by my ultra-Christian lab manager about my atheistic beliefs (at the time, they were atheistic). His reasoning was, he wanted me to go to heaven with him. He is so engrossed into his own paradigm that he is oblivious to what is so dastardly wrong with it. However, I knew the truth. He wanted me to believe as he did because he knows he is wrong. He cannot face other paradigms without being reminded of that. I'm bringing this up to point out that there are other reasons to attack someone else's reality. However, in retrospect, I only pointed out a reason for attempting dominance of my reality as opposed to a second reason for attacking it. But isn't that just a matter of perspective?
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Post by Ikaros on Feb 27, 2011 1:47:36 GMT -6
I don't think it's a bitch sir. On the contrary, I see it as a wonderful opportunity to expand the horizons and conquer your destiny. To grab life by the balls (so to speak). I do have but one thing to add. When I worked as a chemist, I was constantly affronted by my ultra-Christian lab manager about my atheistic beliefs (at the time, they were atheistic). His reasoning was, he wanted me to go to heaven with him. He is so engrossed into his own paradigm that he is oblivious to what is so dastardly wrong with it. However, I knew the truth. He wanted me to believe as he did because he knows he is wrong. He cannot face other paradigms without being reminded of that. I'm bringing this up to point out that there are other reasons to attack someone else's reality. However, in retrospect, I only pointed out a reason for attempting dominance of my reality as opposed to a second reason for attacking it. But isn't that just a matter of perspective? Brother, when I wrote the words "ain't that a bitch" I was speaking to a specific audience. I agree with the rest of your first statement. I'm not sure I see your distinction. He was trying to change your beliefs, which to my mind is an attempt of one person to dominate another person's beliefs. I was trying to draw a distinction between the desire to proselytize or convert and the desire to encourage awakening through the process of playing devil's advocate. Does that make sense? I can clarify further, if you would like. Awake! Ikaros
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Feb 27, 2011 22:07:44 GMT -6
You got it down Ikaros. And as for attempted dominance of my reality, that is precisely what I pointed out in the third paragraph. In any case, I believe that we as a society place far too much emphasis on dominance of each others prospective realities. It doesn't have to be this way. Many societies (like China for instance) place no emphasis on beliefs what so ever, and I think this is a much more reasonable course of action. It frees each person to pick their own paradigm instead of being smothered into obeying "commandments" like slaves...
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Post by nyrlthtp on Mar 1, 2011 2:16:20 GMT -6
If belief is reality . . . Then the individual is the highest authority unless belief sets clash somehow. Then there are as many paths to Awakening as there are people asleep. Then there is no objective right or wrong way. Then, if you choose to follow in someone else's footsteps, this is your reality, and {it} is just as valid as those who strike out on their own. sounds good. heck, there'd be no limitations, really. aspire by fucking, getting high, eating, breathing, and eliminating. oo baby. Cthulhu Tantra! However, it does not necessarily mean that you have subjugated your reality to someone else, but rather incorporated the beliefs that you found useful on your quest. Then blatant self-promotion and requests for payments from those seeking awakening is a perfectly valid path for the person doing it. Then belief that religion can be sold at 6 easy payments plus shipping and handling is a reality that benefits the wealthy and the one paid, not the one wanting to do his own work. I don't follow the logic. if someone wanted to submit to another for their spiritual advancement, pay $50,000 to get to Level 7, and believed it, that'd be it, right? Then fair trade can have nearly infinite definitions. What I believe to be fair may not be the same as your belief. Then if a person believes himself to be awakened, he is so in his reality, and in those who choose to believe in his reality. The question then becomes, what have you done to convince others of your awakening? Then you don't have to convince others of your awakening. Then self-confidence, arrogance, awakening, positivity, negativity, utility, inadequacy, mastery, and slavery are all matters of perspective. yes, this makes sense. effectively mastery and advancement become a matter of 'skill of belief'. if you can believe it arightly then you can achieve it. if there is no skill involved in believing things real then anyone who thinks that they are awake are so. can this be demonstrated false? A few of the things I choose to believe: To attack another person's reality is an attempt to dominate that person's reality. To question another person's reality is an attempt at edification. The difference between attack and question is a matter of perspective. If you are going to make a claim about someone else's awakening, or lack thereof, when that person asks you for specifics, clarification, or examples, you should answer, not ask for money. could we answer and then ask for money? if i believe that you will send a $20 bill to my street address today, will it happen? is this a test of my belief, your participation in reality, or something else? how are disputations of belief resolved? Then, if you choose to believe that making money at the expense of integrity is the path for you, that is your reality (but it may still make you a whore). ;D not if i don't believe that it will. I could become a mass-murderer and then believe myself into becoming President of the Universe, couldn't I? what stops that, if anything?
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Post by skylar613 on Mar 2, 2011 12:09:26 GMT -6
Forgive me if im not as articuate as i possibly could be, but ive had a thought about something similar recenty. The way I like to look at reality is simiar to the chaos magician's idea of Chaos. The great infinite possibility forever stretching outward and into everything, creates many reflections of of itself as it stretches outward, however, in order for that to even be possible they have to be smaller than what came before it. When reflection is created inside the smaller shells, possibility continues to diminish. Our "belief" is simiar to the original chaos in that it creates, even if in our small minds, but it's manifestation is "pressed against" the world that is around us, creating the impossibility of certain things. The smaller the thing trying to create, the more energy it has to exert in order to make it possible.
Forgive me if i sound like a nutcase, I thought it may have been relevant.
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 2, 2011 14:54:17 GMT -6
Forgive me if im not as articuate as i possibly could be, but ive had a thought about something similar recenty. The way I like to look at reality is simiar to the chaos magician's idea of Chaos. The great infinite possibility forever stretching outward and into everything, creates many reflections of of itself as it stretches outward, however, in order for that to even be possible they have to be smaller than what came before it. When reflection is created inside the smaller shells, possibility continues to diminish. Our "belief" is simiar to the original chaos in that it creates, even if in our small minds, but it's manifestation is "pressed against" the world that is around us, creating the impossibility of certain things. The smaller the thing trying to create, the more energy it has to exert in order to make it possible. Forgive me if i sound like a nutcase, I thought it may have been relevant. Why smaller? Why can't the reflection magnify in size, intensity, and influence? I like where your mind is going, but don't be afraid to think outside the trapezoid... that's where we come into contact with the void!
By His loathsome tentacles,
Venger As'Nas Satanis Ipsissimus Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by skylar613 on Mar 2, 2011 15:28:54 GMT -6
Well, i imagine that because we are smaller, and a reflection of what it greater, we can only push so much on what was created before. It creates smaller realities, inward, creating as the original had. We have the ability to create in two directions, but it's harder to create larger and outward when such a large force works against you, and doesnt bend to your will quite as willingly. That, in my opinion is what sets certain possibilities lower than others.
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Post by I AM the Way on Mar 2, 2011 16:14:06 GMT -6
Well, i imagine that because we are smaller, and a reflection of what it greater, we can only push so much on what was created before. It creates smaller realities, inward, creating as the original had. We have the ability to create in two directions, but it's harder to create larger and outward when such a large force works against you, and doesnt bend to your will quite as willingly. That, in my opinion is what sets certain possibilities lower than others. Indeed. On the face of it, I wholeheartedly agree with you.
However, indulge me for a few seconds regarding something revolutionary about Neuro-linguistic programing, the Belief Is Reality meme, and what Tony Robbins calls Transformational Vocabulary...
Imagine that we are large, tremendous, and paramount. That we create bigger realities. That it is easier for us to influence the world and manifest our will. Tell yourself that, over and over if you have to. Believe, even if only for a moment, that what I've written is true. What happens? Experiencing that amplified level of empowerment, how much are you suddenly able to accomplish? Focus it into your magic.
In fact, perform a special ritual tonight with this paradigm at the forefront, in the limelight! Report your results over the next 3 weeks. I encourage everyone reading this to do the same.
Awake!
Venger As'Nas Satanis Ipsissimus Cult of Cthulhu
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Post by Cain Da'arnesh on Mar 4, 2011 22:22:22 GMT -6
Well I think that's a fascinating idea actually... There are still a few considerations to take into account, but I feel compelled to ask myself: are these real considerations or is it all set up this way simply because I believe that it is set up this way? The more I dwell on it, the more I reach the catastrophic conclusion that all is not as I have perceived it... That reality is more malleable than previously imagined and that I am free to take flight wherever I may...
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